The perfect Joker 2 battery

[PDC]

Hi!

Got some Tronic TR854265P20HL 20C cells, which has the perfect size for building a 12S3P Joker 2 battery with a short total cable length.

Here you have some pictures.

Will make some measurements later with my datalogger, but on the first testflight there was lots of power.

[WillJames]

WOW

Pretty cool!!

What C are those cells?

[PDC]

Hi WJ.

They are rated at 20C....however, the C rating is something diffuse in the lipo world, cells never performs as promissed, So when I see a C rating of 20, I expect something realistic between 10-15C which is still very good, and good enough.

This battery gives good power even that the temperatures outside is below the freezing point.

[fitenfyr]

So where are you getting these cells at?

I wouldn't mind trying my hand at building a few packs.

I am a firefighter so I can certainly put out any "mess" I make. :D

[PDC]

Hi fitenfyr!

:D Just take your time when you solder, be a ware of the law of murphy :wink: , and you will not need to call your colleagues :-).

Try to send Jacky Xu from Tronic a mail xcg750613@gmail.com

[fitenfyr]

So those circuit boards are the balancing modules?
What was the cost of those?

No webpage for this company then huh?

[PDC]

Hi!

The circuit boards is designed of German Jochen Guther, which was very active on the English Ikarus Piccolo forum when we first started to experiment with lipo cells on this first micro heli. He then sold the design to English CSM

http://www.rcmodels.org/csm/lipo.htm

http://www.rcmodels.org/csm/LiPoBalancers.htm

Ask if you can buy a batch of 24 circuits, then you might/might not get a better price.

He then designed this balancer which discharge any cell which exceeds 4,2V with max 0,335A, So if the end charge current exceeds 0,335A, this circuits will not be able to keep the individual cells at max 4,2V.

I have 175 cycles on my first homebuild battery for the Ion-X, with these circuits mounted, an have only good experience with them.j When first the battery is prober balanced once, it will more or less stay balanced if handled correct. So it is primarely on the first 10-20 cycles that one should keep an eye on that the charge current is max 0,3A if the battery is charged all the way up.
I prefer only to charge each celle to 4,1V, an therefore the balancers in most cases will stay inactive.

They are designed to be mounted direct on the cells as I did it, not via a cable as there will be problems if the connection is not 100% good.

The good news is that they can be used again and again when the battery gets old, one simply just have to move them to the next battery ;-).

---------

Sorry, here you have the full contact details, but I still suggest that you only send him a mail as a beginning, also the full product line is not available on the webpage, so send a mail.




http://www.tronicshz.com

-------------------------------------------------

Tronics Electro Co.,Ltd is the biggest Li-Polymer manufacturer who special produce high rate Li-polymer for RC markets. Tronics have so many distributors and dealers in USA and Europe and South Korea , we expect for more and more customers to give us great support, mean while, Tronics expect to offer more and more powerful and substantial batteries for all RC fans.
Please visit our website http://www.tronicshz.com to to get our detail specification, or you can email to xcg750613@gmail.com or postmaster@tronicshz.com to get detail specification and quotation.
Tronics promise to every RC fans here, if you choose TRONICS, TRONICS MUST GIVE YOU THE BEST BUT CHEAPPEST PRODUCTS. TRONICS DO ALL THINGS CREDITABLLY!
_________________
Tronics Electro Co.,Ltd
Tel:+86 752 2391757
Fax:+86 752 2691159
http://www.tronicshz.com

[fitenfyr]

Cool thanks a bunch.
I may have to order some of those balancers for a MaxAmps pack I have.
One pack is a PITA to hand balance all the time.

I will definately shoot him and e-mail about cells though.

Would you do a quick "How-to" on soldering those cells or point me to a good resource?
I have been told they require a special solder.
What kind of heat do they need?

[PDC]

Would you do a quick "How-to" on soldering those cells or point me to a good resource?
I have been told they require a special solder.
What kind of heat do they need?

Another good thing about these cells, apart from the low price, is that they are easy to solder as normal solder can be used on both solder tabs.

I use a 25W iron which is the minimum i would say, just tape the cells together in position before you solder, and do the soldering as quick as possible to avoid too much heat transferred into the cell.
Some people cool down the cells before they solder them, don't know how big effect this trick have, but maybe it will give you a little extra time to fiddle with the soldering job before the heat start damage the cell.

Ensure that the tabs are close together, I used a tool the put weight on the top solder tab, so that is was hold close to the other tab(s).

Order some extra cells if one or two should be bad / destroy.

Measure the voltage of each cells, and use the cells there are best matched to each other.

I think it is strait forward to solder such a battery, never had any big problems with it, easy to charge when you have the balancing circuits build in, nice that you have control over total cable length and shape of the final battery, and then of cause it is nice that the final battery is half the price of ready made batteries ;-).

[fitenfyr]

That's great...
Going to have to order some up to play with.

Thanks

[PDC]

Was out again today with the Joker...got the new SL720 gyro, and it is a time consuming process to set it up i think...If one know the correct formula it only takes a second to program it I guess, but until then, it takes ages.

Got a higher gearing for the Joker, as this was the only way to get the head speed up, as the new Actro regulator are rpm limited.

The power was massive, almost constant 1880 rpm during all maneuvers.

This battery in combination with the Actro motor are really able to move some air.

The joker it self is very stable and precise, feels almost like a big ship. If you do nothing, it does nothing.

Think the Ion-X is better suited for hardcore 3D, when the Joker is good for precise FAI style 3D.

The sound from this belt driven machine is 100% candy for your ears....Belt drive on electric machines are just so nice.

//Paul

[marcelino]

Hey Paul

Why did you choose exactly this type of High Rate Lithium cell from Tronics?

I mean there are so many different types available from them.


if everything will become fine, my new "Big One" and the Pletti will become ready to pick up this week.
For the reason of lower Price i think to build my own Packs too.
12 or 14S, not shure yet. About 5000mAh.

What are your experiences with delivery? How fast, how expensive?

some info would be nice.

:)

Marcel

[PDC]

Hey Paul

Why did you choose exactly this type of High Rate Lithium cell from Tronics?

I mean there are so many different types available from them.


if everything will become fine, my new "Big One" and the Pletti will become ready to pick up this week.
For the reason of lower Price i think to build my own Packs too.
12 or 14S, not shure yet. About 5000mAh.

What are your experiences with delivery? How fast, how expensive?

some info would be nice.

:)

Marcel

I choosed these cells for three reasons, HL is the the latest technology, 2000ma is a good size, and the dimensions are perfect for both the Joker and the Ion-X.

The power is awesome from this battery, I recommend 12S3P (6000ma), gives you around 7 minutes with 3D with my setup.

Delivery for the cells is app 2 months, shipment is around 100 dollars for 100 pcs. as I remember it.

The power from the Actro is massive too, I would recommend the same as Gerd, the Actro motor even that I haven't tried the Plettenberg.
The Plettenberg looks mean, is heavier and more expensive, but guess it is a good motor too. I don't think you need more power than what the Actro gives on 12S.

The Joker2 is a very very nice electric heli, loves the silent and powerful powertrain.

[marcelino]

paul,

thank you for your recommendation.
there were some 2500 HR cells on the Tronics site. that`s why i came to 5000mAh.
i like to fly powerfull 3D with some long distance TicToc`s and the big, fast loops. Think this will pull some Amps? maybe 6000 would be more save because:
7-8 minutes is my target.

get contact to jacky xu is next step, i would say.

ordered a Vibe last week, no Joker no ion. Will try this machine now. think it will be some more noisy than the Joker but that`s not a big Problem here. Glow ones are still louder...

if i remember right, the dimensions have to be about the same as for the ion. That would be the same Pack as seen on your Pictures above simply with a bit longer wire between the two halves.
Exact details i will see in short future
:D

Marcel

[PDC]

paul,

thank you for your recommendation.
there were some 2500 HR cells on the Tronics site. that`s why i came to 5000mAh.
i like to fly powerfull 3D with some long distance TicToc`s and the big, fast loops. Think this will pull some Amps? maybe 6000 would be more save because:
7-8 minutes is my target.

get contact to jacky xu is next step, i would say.

ordered a Vibe last week, no Joker no ion. Will try this machine now. think it will be some more noisy than the Joker but that`s not a big Problem here. Glow ones are still louder...

if i remember right, the dimensions have to be about the same as for the ion. That would be the same Pack as seen on your Pictures above simply with a bit longer wire between the two halves.
Exact details i will see in short future
:D

Marcel

Yes! That´s correct, see picture below.

I would not go below 6000ma on a 12S battery with the HL cells, really think this 12S3P setup must be the optimum setup with HL cells. If you go lower, your battery will be stressed more, and you will have too short flight time and too little watts for hard 3D in my opinion.

[marcelino]

thank you again, Paul

as soon as i get the Kit, i will watch the Battery trays and the space available inside the canopy, to be sure that Packs like these will fit. if so, the soldering iron has to be preheatet...

:wink:

Marcel

[Laurens]

Marcel, did you order a Vibe or an Evibe? Can you tell me the price?

[marcelino]

Hi Laurens,

i ordered an Evibe first. But:

Evibe is not ready for delivery.
Enginemounts are still not available :? ,
It seems the Manufactorer has no time for milling these mounts. (low priority maybe?)
maybe they will produce another mount as a prototype if you really insist.
This would fit the Plettenberg Motor.


i knew that i had to do one for myself, because i will try up to 14, maybe 15S in future.
For this use it will need a different engine Mount plate to allow more movement of the Motor, otherwise it`s not possible to get the big Gear in. (9 Teeth Motor/ 100 Teeth Main)

That`s now why i took a complete Vibe Glow Kit and we added some Gear set`s...

Now i can do what i want and have the possibility to sell it as a multi-choice Kit,
if the day comes, to buy something new :wink:

for the Price-question...

you can imagine that this is a unregular deal and i paid an unregular Price. :roll:
It should be about the same as for the Glow one (some parts less, some other parts added)
i will check that for you and write it here.

The Glow is Sfr. 1980.- (1259.- Euro) at a local dealer here. (His prices are high compared to other dealers)


Hope that helps, will be back soon with a correct price answer and first impressions from the Kit, if you want to hear...

Marcel

[marcelino]

Paul,

can you tell me the dimensions, specially the thickness of your 12S 3P Tronic Pack?

i heard the thickness of TP 5S 5300 (one each side the frame) is maximum that will fit under the Vibe canopy...

otherwise i have to build a different Battery mount.


Marcel

[Laurens]

I saw the vibes for the first time today. 3 were fuel powered, and one was being built for Epower. They look just SO good.

[marcelino]

Marcel, did you order a Vibe or an Evibe? Can you tell me the price?


Have seen an official price for the Evibe now. Sfr.1980.-
no difference to glow then...

Marcel

[Laurens]

This is the pic I took.

[PDC]

Paul,

can you tell me the dimensions, specially the thickness of your 12S 3P Tronic Pack?

i heard the thickness of TP 5S 5300 (one each side the frame) is maximum that will fit under the Vibe canopy...

otherwise i have to build a different Battery mount.


Marcel

Hi Marcel, sorry for the late reply.

The dimensions is. W-H-L 58mm x 68mm x 250mm

-Paul

[marcelino]

Hi Paul,

no problem!

i am still at building the frame, so there is no hurry :wink:


thanks a lot for givin me this support!
I will build a battery-dummy to see how it fit`s under canopy now.


Marcel