Motor failures

[DrScoles]

I want to know how many people have had motor failures. No bullshit either... If I get 50 flights out of this thing and it grenades, I'm gonna be pissed....


I know of 5.

Mike

[skippy]

I don't know of any motor failures yet. One thing I have noticed is some people mounting the fan in the wrong direction. Make sure the fan blows towards the front.

Do you know what failed on the motors?

[cdrking]

FIVE, Holy Crap. That's too many for me to dish out the bucks. You guys do the R&D and when they're ready I'll buy one. :lol:
Jeff

[rotorheadbob]

Mike,

Can you provide details about what happened? Total meltdown, motor exploding, simple motor failure?

Thanks.

Rob

[vitek]

I know of 2 [the same two that I mentioned in PM]. From what I hear, incredible power for a few minutes, and then failure. One of them resulted in a fire and swelling of the batteries.

Travis

[Ben74]

it's extremely rare for brushless motors to fail. i would be interested in hearing the details of these failures. usually, the only two ways you can harm a BL motor is by overspeeding it, or overtemping it. if it overspeeds, the magnets could detach from the shaft, possibly causing the motor to blow up. if you overtemp it, the heat can demagetize the magnets, which would result in a loss of power. if an ion is setup correctly, it would be very unlikely that either of these things could happen.

[Russ McC]

Ok I guess I will jump in and let you all know what Rob and I think is going on. My Ion-X was working great for 54 flights, the temp never got above about 160F on a warm day. On the 55th flight the model seemed to have unusually high power but sense battery performance varies some we just thought it was having an exceptional run. Four minutes in the motor jammed, followed by the controller burning off. Robs has begun malfunctioning with 20 flights, it has unlimited power and is reaching 212F in four minuets of easy flight, Robs did not break or burn, he is sending it in Monday for evaluation. We suspect the controller has gone out of tolerance possibly causing the timing to advance beyond the motors limits. This is all speculation at this point but with Rob’s motor/controller and the right equipment it should be easy for Hacker to confirm where/what the malfunction is and correct it.

To be very clear this is not a problem caused by Min Air, it is a Hacker problem and would have been difficult for Min Air to predict. When we fly on the cutting edge of technology we should expect to have some bumps in the road, for me this model is worth any small inconvenience I might encounter along the way. The performance is great, it’s clean, quiet and is not shaking it’s self apart. Even after the problem I had I bought a second Ion-X and am having a blast, both are currently working flawlessly! :D

[WillJames]

Hacker will get to the bottom of it and make good, their reputation is awesome.


When we fly on the cutting edge of technology we should expect to have some bumps in the road


You hit the nail on the head here Russ. I would buy an Ion-X in an instant if I thought it would not lead to divorce. :(

If you have never seen one fly, you probably would not understand, but they are one of the coolest Helis I have ever seen, bar none. The look, the sound, the flying capabilities, completely incredible. I love watching Shannons. I am definitely not ruling out a purchase in the future. :)

[Shannon Davis]

Baja, you are simply in awe of my incredible flying abilaties. :lol: The machine is only a small part of it I am what makes it sooooo cool- but only if I am wearing my hat and glasses. :D

[WillJames]

HAHAHAHA Well... I am in awe of your abilities, you are my daddeh!! I am rebuilding a crashed R90 right now. :oops:

Your Ion-X is cool too! :rolling

On Topic... You had any Hacker troubles with your Ion?

[Helirob]

We need to change gear ratios to reduce our head speed from 2000 RPM to 1800 RPM in the hover. Min Air has 55 tooth gears available and should have some 60 tooth gears in soon. This will allow the motor to operate more efficiently and keep the temp down.

Rob

[Tabbytabb]

I got a 60 tooth on the way, I will record temps when it gets here

Tabb

[WayneR]

My motor / controller died in flight. I lost all power at about 300 feet 6.30 minutes into a flight. I was doing a climbing TicToc when it all of a sudden would not toc. I immediately pirouetted to nose in and autoed to safety. Batteries were at 19.3 and max temp on the motor was 145.7 according to the venon monitor I have on it. Speed controller was cool to the touch.

I brought it back to the pits and tried to rearm the controller, not a sound. What now box it up and send it to Hacker? :cry:

[Russ McC]

Hi Wane,

So does the motor turn freely? The temps sound ok. Maybe it’s something new like a controller failure? Yes it goes back to Aero Model, the address is on the sheet that came with the motor, phone number is there to I think. Glad you got it down ok!!! :) :(

[Sar]

Could it be the windings in the motor are overheating, resulting in the shorting of a few windings, which results in a higher current through the windings, which causes more heat and eventually motor/controller failure?

[WayneR]

Motor turns just fine. I suppose that is possible.

[fitenfyr]

WOW!
Wayne good deal on getting it back down. 2 crashes in a month on it would be bad.:D
So maybe I was not too far off on you and Mikes ships then this past weekend. Everything you guys described about the limited headspeed and poor runs sure pointed to a bad ESC/Controller to me.
Now to hear that motors are going poof tells me Hacker might have rushed those controllers out a bit early.

Well Mike Guess no using the Ion for that project huh?

[Russ McC]

I dought the motor failed since it was only at 145F, when my motor went it was well over 200F, Probably the controller but the hole thing has to go back just incase.

[Sar]

Prefvious runs may have damaged the motor and then you're next run the motor runs insane with the higher current, fewer windings.. just a thought.

[WayneR]

The motor has never exceeded 150 degrees as recorded by the Venon monitor. I didn't see an increase in power from previous flights. This happened after approximately 20 flights

Anyhow it will be off to Aero Models on Monday. :cry:

[KillerBob]

Well - I'm starting to put two and two together.

Yesterday on the fourth flight after 6min the headspeed suddently increases to 2160 unloaded but it feels useless as loaded the headspeed drops extreme fast (using stock 52t)... Well was just about to quit flying anyway so I landed and didn't pay more attention to it.

Messassured the engine temp: 143 have never recorded more than 147 and this was the 13th flight

When removing the packs I saw that the four front cells on one pack were swelled to almost double size. At home I removed the cracked flex and tape. The four swelled cells meassures 0,00v !

I have written to Thunderpower and packed the packs to go by airmail tomorrow....... But is all this causd by a failing motor causing exessive currentdrain ??

Dammit - hollyday just starting - I should have been flying a lot - now I will be using time shipping batteries and motor around the World.... :arggg: :arggg:

regards
Lars

[Tabbytabb]

wow, sorry to hear of the problems. My Ion is still awaiting a new 60T (or 58) gear to replace the garbage one I got last week. Your temps arent that hi I dont think at all on the motors, I was seeing 150 F just hovering around in my yard.

Wayne- I am begining to think your Ion just doesnt like you :)


Lars- what charger where you using to charge your packs?? I know many of us are using astro 109's and if you are using 2 seperate chargers it is a good idea to verify that the ending charge voltage of the 2 seperate chargers are pretty close. Some of the chargers vary quite a bit in their end charge voltage. If they are a ways apart it is a good idea to mark the charger which charges to a higher voltage and top both packs on it to assure voltage match.

Sorry about the puffy packs :( Couldnt have happened at a worse time from the sounds of it.

Tabb

[KillerBob]

Tabb I'm using the Schulze 636+ on LiIo program this is the same as the LiPo program exept that end voltage is 4,115 compared to 4,2v on the LiPo program.

Futher more I have been a "bad boy" and have added the balancing circuits designed by Jochen Guther to my packs - they ensures that no single cellsection of 4p's comes above 4,21v - all in all I'm certain that this is not an overcharge issue.

Any thoughts on why HS suddently incrases 120 rmp after 6 mins of flying ??? Should I send it to check ??

/Lars

PS: Yes timing sux - big time :bomb:

[Russ McC]

Hi Lars,

Do you mean just one set of four parallel cells swelled? They read 0.00v, so what did the rest of the cells read? If all the rest where safely above 3.00v then you had a defective pack. All the cells should have reached there critical low charge state at the same time or very close.

[KillerBob]

Hi Russ

Yes it is only the four cells in the front that swelled on one pack only(by "in front" I mean in front of the helicopter). I havn't touched the packs since yesterday. Right now the pack with the swelled cells meassures 15,16 v the other pack 18.94v As the section with the swelled cells meassures 0,0V the rest is 3,79v in average. The other pack is the same as 18,94/5 = 3,79v. Flying time on the last flight was aprox 8 mins

But how about 2160 rpm ????? that is 2160*20,8 - 44928 inside the motor !!!

Best regards
Lars