FAI F3C pictures and Scott Gray's Sylphide

[Thrasymedes]

These are just a few examples of the face of FAI.
These pictures in particular are from the 2008 European
Championship, and a couple from the 2007 Hirobo Challenge.
All these and more can be found by going through www.fai.org








Mann and Machine


Heli on the Juice




Variable Bell-Hiller head

[Thrasymedes]

Scott doing a Freestyle Demo of his Sylphide FAI machine, he comes down low a few times which will give you a perspective of the forward speed.

http://www.scottgrayrc.com/video1.html

[cbdane]

Beautiful flying! I could watch that all day. I guess I need to learn more about FAI.

[AFjetmech]

Originally Posted by cbdane

Beautiful flying! I could watch that all day. I guess I need to learn more about FAI.

I agree! Awesome. Now the question.. What does the variable Bell-Hiller do?

[WillJames]

Great pics, thank you for sharing!!!

[Thrasymedes]

Originally Posted by AFjetmech

I agree! Awesome. Now the question.. What does the variable Bell-Hiller do?

I dunno exactly, I'm learning a lot of this stuff as I go too. The guys name is Ruediger Feil and he is from Germany, his website is ... http://www.heliguru.de/index.html He is sponsored by Red Bull.

The article didn't explain other that it is based on a SSR-7 head for the Hirobo Evo 90. It supposedly keeps the original SSR-7 geometry for aerobatics, but uses a smaller ratio for hovering.

Below is another pic and his resume below..

[ping]

Originally Posted by AFjetmech

I agree! Awesome. Now the question.. What does the variable Bell-Hiller do?

It looks like it might adjust the Bell-Hiller ratio in flight. Hard to tell exactly without a shot of the bottom of the head.

[Thrasymedes]

Originally Posted by ping

It looks like it might adjust the Bell-Hiller ratio in flight. Hard to tell exactly without a shot of the bottom of the head.

Thats right, it changes in flight, that's what he intended but I'm not sure on the details as there really was no further explination. Not sure if they allow that in compeition, but its cool.

[AFjetmech]

Does a change in head speed adjust something centrifugally or is there something connected to a servo? The coolness factor of this hobby continually amazes me.

[ErichF]

Exactly, as the head speed is increased, the tuned spring is defeated by centrifugal loads, and the bell mixer mounts rotate outward to reduce flybar ratio to speed up aerobatics.

[AFjetmech]

Thanks. I had a feeling that is how it worked. Pretty cool.

[Thrasymedes]

Originally Posted by AFjetmech

Thanks. I had a feeling that is how it worked. Pretty cool.

Imagine the work in tuning the system to do that...lol....that guy is serious about his helicopters!!!

[joco]

Here's another really good video of Scott Gray's Sylphide. It even includes narration by Gordie Meade and Curtis Youngblood... fast forward to minute 6 if you want the aerobatic portion.

[ping]

Originally Posted by Thrasymedes

Imagine the work in tuning the system to do that...lol....that guy is serious about his helicopters!!!

Are flybarless helicopters banned in F3C? You can precisely tune the head on the V-bar and switch between 4 banks in flight.

[joco]

You are correct... currently you cannot use Flybarless for F3C. However, according to Curtis the flybarless setups are not as precise as Bell/Hiller setups. He event went so far as to say that he cannot wait until they allow flybarless since many people will move that way and he will have an advantage by sticking with Bell/Hiller.

[Thrasymedes]

Originally Posted by joco

Here's another really good video of Scott Gray's Sylphide. It even includes narration by Gordie Meade and Curtis Youngblood... fast forward to minute 6 if you want the aerobatic portion.

Fast foward past the hovering??? No way, call me boring, but I appreciate what goes into a good hover... ....but yeah, the aerobatics are so cool!!!

I would imagine that anything lacking in a flybarless setup could be quickly overcome with input from contest flyers and development of the product and software. A well designed and executed F3C head is very precise no doubt, but I'll bet the bridge could be gapped, and a good way to bridge that gap would be to allow it. I'm using the mechanical head set ups first, so I can learn what is good before jumping to flybarless, but I will go flybarless..

[joco]

Originally Posted by Thrasymedes

F
I would imagine that anything lacking in a flybarless setup could be quickly overcome with input from contest flyers and development of the product and software.

Well that's the interesting point. Curtis and his Dad have been designing both the head and software for the flybarless setup and they havent gotten it to where they wanted it. Based on my conversation it seemed the limitation was mechanical (ie not having a flybar) and not something the software could overcome... then again I could be wrong since much of the conversation was over my head, anyway.

[Thrasymedes]

Originally Posted by joco

Well that's the interesting point. Curtis and his Dad have been designing both the head and software for the flybarless setup and they havent gotten it to where they wanted it. Based on my conversation it seemed the limitation was mechanical (ie not having a flybar) and not something the software could overcome... then again I could be wrong since much of the conversation was over my head, anyway.

You may be right, I dunno, what little I've been told is that the gyro quality comparison between the gyro in most flybarless systems provided does not match that of a GY611, yet anyway. I think it's just a matter of time although at this point I'm sure there is definitely a point to what Curtis was telling you. I'm definitely listening, but I want to jump that hill on my bicycle and see if I can make it, so to speak...

[markjj]

It's an interesting point regarding flybarless and the precession that is lacking with todays hardware/software but surely if a flybar beat all else you'd see it on the top spec military stuff, heck they need to hover pretty good too, to get a good long range shot.....

I doubt it'll be long before the flybar is history..LOL


Flybarless on model RC is surely in its infancy...... !

[ping]

Full scale helicopters don't require the response rates we demand on our models. The flybar is basically just a mechanical gyro mixed with your car's power steering. It provides mechanical inputs to the head faster then a human can compensate for. It also increases the driving force of your servos up to the grips.

I'll also be watching F3C closely if they ever allow flybarless. I think Curtis may be proven wrong, we shall see though. I sure do love the canopies they fly in F3C, I know align has worked on producing a canopy in that style for their helicopters in the past hopefully they finish one someday.