What's the best way to get governor mode on Ion-X?

[FrittsLogic]

I recently picked up a used Ion and am loving it. My experience with electrics prior to this was a T-Rex and Logo 103D. In both I used Kontronic Jazz esc's in governor mode. I really like the ability to have different headspeeds with a flick of the switch (idle1 to idle 2). I understand that the stock Hacker esc is not recommended for gov. mode. What are the other options out there that will work without changing out my stock hacker motor or gearing? Any recommendations? I would like to go as low as 1500rpm head speed for FAI type flying, then shift to 1900-2000 or so for aerobatics. Any thouights would be appreciated, Don.

[misskimo]

hey , by spring time , maybe first of summer , Kontronics will have a esc made for HV and H amps , its the 63 volt Jazz , other than that , I will be useing on one of my Ions a TJ pro , should be a fun year , my 63 volt esc should come any month now . :)

Tony

[WillJames]

The CC HV-110 has a lot better governor mode than the 77-O bu I did not like it good enough to use it and I am back in Airplane mode.

The 77-O surges in Governor mode and the HV-110 does not surge but it has a lag between when you move the sticks and how the power comes on IMHO. There is like a delay or something, it just feels disconnected.

From what I have seen/heard, if you really want a good governor mode you have to step up to the Schulze or another very expensive contoroller like the ones Tony Runs.

[BobbySmith]

Don
i would give the CC110 a shot for what you want i think you might like it
I have dialed back the 110 to 1800 HS speed and it worked great!!


MY .02

Bobby

[FrittsLogic]

Are there any options amongst the Shulze controllers other than the $600 40-160H beast? Will the Kontronik Jazz 55-10-32 ESC work? Any experiences?

[FrittsLogic]

Well, I've been so happy with Jazz up till now, that I think I'll try it for this big bird as well. I was able to find the Power Jazz 63V that Tony was referring to on a German online store for $395 shipped to my door here in Honolulu. I'll let you all know how it works. I fully expect it to be as buttery smooth and silky in spool up and governor mode as the smaller models.

[Laurens]

So far Kontronik has been top knotch for me.

[marcelino]

Don,

i`m using the Jazz 55-10-32 on my Roxxter 55 with 10S in Governor mode.
works perfect, exactly like the smaller 40-06-18.

I`m not shure, it would handle the current the heavier Ion needs.
Roxxter is actually 3,2 kg. With this low weight one can fly relative hard aerobatics without drawing over 65 Amps.

Think that Power Jazz is a good choice!

Marcel

[misskimo]

hey , well we can also install a heat sink on the controller , I just recieved 2 55 10 32s today , logo 10 and logo 14 project , just cut out just enough to add the heat sink and use heat tranfered silicone , then clear shrinkwrap it on there , then you will be able to slin some amps through it . but remember , you will void the warranty just adding it . I think , I did that with a new 40-70 schulze and its still going , well its on loan right now
Tony

[marcelino]

Tony,

good idea, this heat sink tune-up.
But...

i found this (older) site. It`s linked from a dealer`s online-shop.

http://www.kontronik.com/jazz2004.htm (sorry, it`s writen in german)

there you`ll see that the 55-10-32 should have a max current drain to 70 Amps limiter, called "Strombegrenzung".
I don`t know, if this limiter really exists.

i remember someone has writen here at HF, his ion takes over 100 Amps peak.
maybe the 55-10-32 will not "handle" this 100 Amps.


i didn`t find any description of this limiter on actual manuals ore similar pages.

Marcel

[misskimo]

with a heat sink it should be able to handle 100 no problem , remember we only spiking to close to 100 with a 32-3 actro , I dont thing you will spike a hacker that high though , I think that motors only good for 2500 watts , the actro will hit close to 3000 , need to look at getting the NUE 1521 1.5 , its a drop in replacement motor that uses the same gearing as the hacker but puts out about the same power as the actro , the actro 32 series 8 poles will run best in gov , I consider the actros like a 4 stroke motor , lots of torque at lower rpms , the hacker would be a 2 stroke , got to get those rpms up to whip out some power , but the NUE is a 4 pole and runs at the same rpms as the 2 pole hacker , so its got alittle of Both and easier on the batteries, actro sucks the juice , the nue dont . but Im still not ready to swap out my actros on my 3 Ion yet , give them another year , I will run one on 15s this year , ran 14s last year and it has some GRUNT!

Tony

[misskimo]

Ill email Mike at Kontronics and see

[ChrisS]

I can't speak for the Kontronik, but I do have a Schultze 32-55 which has very similar specs to the Jazz, and a large heatsink. I can thermal the 32-55 if I get somewhat rambunctous. If I fly a bit more conservatively, it is no problem at all. I would think for sport or contest type stuff, you'd be O.K. But it is a lot of money to spend on an unknown.

This will a 32-3 geared 9.5:1.

The Hacker motor should only see spikes in the neighborhood of 80 or 90 amps, which makes it even more likely that it can be used with success...

Chris

[marcelino]

Hi,
called Kontronik Germany today.

They told me, the 55-10-32 ESC would not Limit any current *if set to Heli-Mode!*
it will burn in worst case.

Dont know what to think about this. Had never problems with over temp of this ESC (40°C) but have now Problems with not enough Power to hold Headspeed at 11,5° Pitch with 600`s V2-blades on now. Rpm drops too much.

Orbit 30-12 and 10S Polyquest 3700XP (20C/25C) get as hot as i can`t touch it after 7 minutes flight time. ESC cut`s Power after this time, if set to Lipo-mode. (3 Volt/ cell)

maybe i`ll have to buy a stronger motor :?

Marcel

[marcelino]

Hi again,

Has anyone tried to use a Rev Max, or similar Rpm limiting system designed for use on Glow Engines
to do something like Governor with a ESC, for example a CC HV110 or Hacker 77 in normal mode and 100% throttle curve?

Marcel

[MinAirChris]

Yes, Shannon Davis did that with a GV-1. You can look back through the threads on this forum and find his results...they were very positive.

Are you flying that motor in an Ion?

Chris

[Rickster]

I personally have not found the need for a Governor feature on E-Power. On a multi blade head I see a distinct advantage to allow exacting HS to maintain cyclic phasing. Unlike Nitro power the Electric motor does not want to "Run-Away" when unloaded like a Nitro engine. The motor has a set KV rating and even unloaded will not exceed this limit. This is why most are running a flat 100% curve or a very shallow "V" at most..
This is how I look at it anyways...

Rick

[Andi G]

I don't know anyone who is happy with the Schulze gov mode. The Jazz is much better...

[marcelino]

i also never heard about a Governor Mode on a ESC that really works like it should.
except the Jazz.

That`s why i was asking about experiences with ESC and Governor or rev Limiter.
Will look for this threads...

[marcelino]

@Chris
I`m not using this Motor in a ion.
i`d like to have the same Power that is used to move ion`s hard and fast , installed in this Roxxter in 50 size with its less weight. :twisted:

maybe a Neu 1521 will be the next step...

But:
next Project has to be a bigger Heli like a Ion or a Vibe (sorry :oops: ).
availability of spare Parts without ordering from long Distance away will decide wich one.
also i`m looking for ion-infos here to help decide.

@Rickster
My Dad told me the same thing about no Run-away when unloaded.
a few months back i tried to set up a CC25 with a 100-80-100 V in a T-rex and was not happy with this.
i changed to a Jazz 40-60-18, set this to Heli-Mode and was only happy.
This is why i never tried a 100% or V curve on the bigger Heli. (maybe a fault)

Think i need to try this now!

:badair:


Marcel

[Laurens]

Marcel, I found a link of an Evibe somewhere.

[marcelino]

Thanks! I`ll have another look...

found nothing till now.

But really good Info`s about Ion :D

[Laurens]

http://www.akmod.ch/modelle/jrheli/vibe_90e.html

Swiss company so you can inform us on the further details.

[marcelino]

this is what i know till now:
Vibe 90 E only exists as a converted Glow Kit here.
one can say its a (ordinary :wink:) Vibe 90 Glow with a E-Motor mounted instead of the Glow one,
and some Lipo mountings sideways along the Mainframe. similar to ion.

E-Motor mounts are NOT available for a few weeks/ will fit Plettenberg HP 370/ 40 Heli
http://www.plettenberg-motoren.com/german/Motoren/Brushless/370_40h/Motor.htm

i would like to use a 1521 on 12S if i would buy one, but with a total gear Ratio of 1:7,6 to 1:9,8
this would not be possible without mounting a second Gear Stage, i think.
Maybe a 8 Pole Neu would work with 1:9.8???

it weights 5,2 Kg (11,46 lb) with 10S 5300 TP. Don`t know how good this is compared to a ion. Some Answers???

i was there for a look at a Demonstration-event, last weekend where this one (from the link you posted) should fly.
The flights of all JR E Helis have been cancelled then due to a car accident of the owner.
Nobody was Hurt, only Car deformation
:)
so i only could watch and touch this Vibe at the presentation befor the flights.
I called the Owner last week and he told me that i can testfly his Vibe 90 if i want.
it is adjusted to do precise Hover figures, as he needs this for the contests here.
I don`t think that this will help me to see how it goes for 3D
:(

Positive:
All i can say is, it looks and feels rock solid, has not much parts and would be easy to repair. AND there is no long way to get parts (at least for me) :glasses:
Negative:
you would have to be ready to do some modifications yourself, its not as ready for electric equipment as a ion ( this is only my Opinion)

For now, I`m still not sure what to buy: a Ion that has some advantage and owner who have many experiences, but it`s more difficult to buy it here.
or a Vibe, where i have to develop myself, but Parts are fast to become.
:roll:


btw: fell free to transfer this post, if you think it`s at wrong topic...

Marcel (have to cool down my fingers now :lol: )

[Rickster]

IF you can achieve a 9.6:1 ratio I think you should go with the Actro setup. It would be simpler not having to rig up some 2 stage gearing and the 9.5:1-10:1 ratio is perfect for it..

Rick