Gasser Benefits/Cons

[ClayK]

Can someone break down the benefits and cons to a gasser ship for me?

[Greg Alderman]

some plus's:

Cheap to fly per flight
Long flight time (guess this could be a con if you are waiting for the Freq Pin!)
No electric starter needed
No glow driver needed
No Nitro mess to clean of the bird

Cons:
Car can smell like gas
Home can smell like gas
Some eliminate the above my running camper fuel...

Those are mine...I am sure there are others...

[ClayK]

Can I do the same stuff with a gasser bird that I can do with a nitro? (In the future I mean, I know I'm not doing a heck of a lot of stuff now. I'm looking down the road)

[DebianDog]

Can I do the same stuff with a gasser bird that I can do with a nitro? (In the future I mean, I know I'm not doing a heck of a lot of stuff now. I'm looking down the road)

Have not seen the new videos huh? ;)

http://www.helifreak.com/about11483.html
http://www.helifreak.com/about11538.html

[ClayK]

hmm....

Ok, let's see if I have this straight....

No oily mess.
No exhaust.
Longer flight time.
Cheaper fuel cost.
No electric starter need. (can remote it if desired)
No glow plugs.
Can do 3d and crazy stuff just like the nitro birds.

Does that about sum it up? Ok, how come there aren't more gasser heli's? Tom going to provide some input too?

(I'm thinking about going this route, simply because of the above reasons. I'm just weighing all my options and the good/bad of this side of coptering.)

[PaulH]

Gassers are usually bigger and heavier than their nitro brethren. Depending on your point of view, this could be good or bad. It's bad because they're not as agile as a nitro. It's good because they're more stable in the air. I have hovered my Intrepid Gasser (G26 w/ canfield balancer, 720 mm V-Blades, 95 mm stock tail blades) in 15 MPH winds and it barely twitched.

Seing that you have an old XCell 99 and a Raptor 50, a Bergen might be just what you're looking for. Mechanics similar to what you are used to, very refined (no slop anywhere), almost fully upgraded out of the box.

[ClayK]

I was originally planning on getting a Stratus, but this gasser thing caught my eye. I think I'll probably trade in my Raptor 50 for the new MA 50 and keep my other two. You can never have enough toys right? I am still mulling around with the gasser idea and checking out pros/cons and the different models in this area.

Bergen Intrepid
MA Spectra
Century Predator

The only one that I've been able to see a frame design on has been the Spectra. Hot! If anyone has pics of the Bergen or the Century ones, I'd be grateful to take a look at them.

[WillJames]

You have a list of a lot of the pros....

Here are some other things to consider, I would not necessarily call them cons. I have owned and flown 4 or 5 gas machines and here is what I found.

There are a lot of motor choices and motor shortages on some models due to Horizon's method of how they import them. Hopped up motors can be a bear because some run GREAT and some can shake your machine apart literally.

On a gasser you will have to keep a lot closer eye on them for parts coming loose and parts stressing than on a glow machine. PM is very important. Gas motors can cause high frequency vibs in a airframe that you cannot see but can take their toll on your wallet if you don't PM well. There is a lot of mass moving around and the motor vibs differently at different RPM and on the way up to speed and on the way down from speed. Getting help from an experienced gas flyer is invaluable to help a gas newbie succeed. Some people can just buy a gas kit and make it work for them, but others like me needed a lot of help. Don't be afraid to ask for help.

There is a learning curve to setting up and getting the throttle curve for a gas machine tweaked to just right. For me getting it tweaked and tweaking it more and more is a very fun and challenging experience. Very rewarding. You will learn a lot more alot quicker about throttle curves with a gas machine.

There is a learning curve to flying a gas machine and controlling overspeed on descents and on the downside of maneuvers. Some people click into Normal for long descents where the curve is a lot lower than in their idle up curves for example.

Governors work a lot differently on a gas machine and you REALLY need to get the motor and your curves dialed in before a governor is much good at all. There are differing opinions about this but I believe this to be very important in gasser success.

Gas machine can definitely be very challenging and also EXTREMELY rewarding, and there is a lot more to them than building and flying a R50.

Gas machines are a little more expensive than their glow counterparts because the size and the fact that there are really no plastic fantastic gas machines.

If you are truly interested, try one. It will definitely stimulate your mind and inspire you to learn more about setup, engine tuning, throttle curves, etc. I would recommend a gasser highly to you Clay.

[ClayK]

Challenging is good :) I like working and tinkering on my vehicles and models as well as building. The R50 disappointed in this area. I'm researching the Spectra right now, the bad part is that it pushes back my purchase time due to increased cost over the Stratus and that build. Thanks Will.

[DebianDog]

Here is a short (19 minute) video I did for gasser tuning/CSM setup. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7602552192126289646&q=csm+revlock&pl=true)

To: Tom (Stator Gator) I do not have the original footage on disk anymore I will have to pull it off tape.

[PaulH]

Dan, you might want to recommend that people download the Google video player to watch that. The Flash version Google shows on their page is very poor quality compared with the 139 MB original.

[Greg Alderman]

Clay...you are right down the road from me...we can get together sometime soon if you want and you can take a close look at the Bergen Gasser...or the Bergen turbine...or the Bergen 90... :D

I do leave this Sunday on a 2 week business trip though...

[DebianDog]

Dan, you might want to recommend that people download the Google video player to watch that. The Flash version Google shows on their page is very poor quality compared with the 139 MB original.

Actually if you use the little resize button it is not bad. :?

We are going to make another video for sure.

[Greg Alderman]

Very well said Will!

A gasser is a different "discipline" if you will...and requires a whole new set of thoughts in your head...one thing is that engine tuning is different...and although I have never seen Gary Travis's Gasser video...from what people have said on the forums it sounds like it might be a worthwhile item to get as you transition into a gasser...no matter whose machine you end up buying...of course the video in tuned to the set up of a Bergen Gasser...

[WillJames]

We are going to make another video for sure.



We need to do it up right Dan and get 2 video cams going on it.

Speaking of video...I got one I need to do that has 2 angles...

[ClayK]

Clay...you are right down the road from me...we can get together sometime soon if you want and you can take a close look at the Bergen Gasser...or the Bergen turbine...or the Bergen 90... :D

I do leave this Sunday on a 2 week business trip though...

I'd like to. Friday I have off, but I have people installing a door. Saturday I should be free, but weather may not be great. Sunday you are out of pocket and I leave next weekend for Ireland. Let me know when a good time is.

What's the history between Bergen and MA? Bergen machined upgrade parts for MA a long time ago right? What happened?

[Tom Fiddler]

Of course I love Gassers..as most of you know.
I am not a 3-d flier so the extra weight of a Gasser is of no concern to me.
But as Beast and Rodney show in the video...it does not seem to be much concern to them either!
I am also a fan of the RC 230 engine but that only fits a Vario.
I really like my Vario Acrobatic but the cost is higher than most other Gassers.
There really is not a bad Gasser out there so the choice is a personal one.
read everything you can on the forums and try to make a decision that way.

Gassers run clean with no smoke and fuel is cheap.
I am not a fan of a 26cc engine.
The 231 based engines provide plenty of power.
A gasser will not fly as powerfull as a 90 class machine, but many pilots can't fly a 90 class machine to it's limits anyway.
I just helped a guy up here check out his Raptor 30...Man the mess and smoke and starters and batteries reminded me of why I gave up nitro.
Clay we are not that far from each other and help is always just a phone call away.

Gassers have came along way in the last 3 years, and they are a joy to fly.

I would not say the learning curve is any harder than a nitro nachine it's just different so alot of things you learned about nitro machines does not carry over.

Plus I love just pulling the cord and flying.
They are not for everyone, but thay are darn sure for me!

[Gary O]

I have a Vario Acrobat like Tom has and it is a great flying machine. Not for 3d but it flies great for what it is designed for. I also have 3 Spectra G's and I have yet been able to get one of the TRM motors tuned right. I haven't been able to get one to run for more than a few minutes before it starts running so rough you have to quit. I like being able to throw one around and the gassers just don't do that like a 90 or other nitro machine will do. It is great to take the Vario to the line turn on the switch and pull the cord and fly. Gassers are great machines, it just depends on how you plan on using one as to whether you will be happy with one or not.

[Rodney]

That video of Beast flying the crap out of my Gasser is only about it 12th flight.
I just got my 2nd gallon of Coleman fuel thru it before that flight.
This is my first gasser as well. I really enjoy it alot more than I thought I would.
As Tom stated most cant use the all the performance of the 90 nitro, me being one of them. So the gasser really works for me. Get one you wont be disappointed is what I was told and he was right.

[WillJames]

Rodney is one of thos people who jsut bought a Gasser kit and is making it work for him. Rodney is SUPER-REP for Century and very talented when it comes to helis.

Rock on Rodney!!

[ClayK]

I value everyones input, I think I will get a gasser. Right now it's just a matter of money. I may eventually sell my Raptor 50 to get another 50, we'll see. I'm going to convert my XCell 60 to a scale model (possibly drop in a gas motor, who knows). I will still need a big bird for fun stuff and I think a gasser can do just about everything I'll want it to do and still have a less expensive life cycle. Nitro cost is pretty heavy. A case of fuel is $100. I can burn a gallon easy in a weekend just fiddling around. Parts cost shouldn't be much of an issue once I become more proficient (I'm flying circuits with my TRex out in the street now, almost there with nose-in).

I might be able to get a gasser at the end of the season and build it over winter, so it looks like the next couple months will be some fact collecting and kit comparison. My LHS that carries heli's (hobbyhangar) is too far away for me to make a weekly trip to do constant comparison and pick Kwang's brain. I'm going to have to rely on you all to help me a little :) But that's why we are all here right? Hopefully, I can link up with Greg and take a look at a Bergen bird. I'm familiar with the Spectra (so far the front runner in design, but last in parts cost) design. I'm going to scour the net for some Century bird photos and try to get a peek at their designs. You guys rule, thanks for the help.

[DebianDog]

I love my Predator with a YS-80 but she does burn some fuel!

Camper fuel @ $4 a gallon and tanks that run 20-30 minutes are pretty cool. I have hours and hours flying my Condor and $16 in fuel :smokin:

[Gary O]

Oh, I forgot to mention, that Coleman is great too. Smells like breakfast cooking. :mrgreen:

[Billme]

Gary O, bring your Spectra's to mayday.. I'll get you in the air..
Bill:)

[Gary O]

Bill,

I think I'll take you up on that. It's getting pretty frustrating. I'm only going to be there Saturday.


Gary