CCPM why and how?

[Espeefan]

Newbie question guys - I know CCPM stands for cyclic collective pitch mixing, but my question is, what is the advantage to mixing cyclic and collective controls, and how does it effect, or improve the flyability of a heli?

I noticed many new machines feature ccpm, and if I was to purchase a model that has this feature for a starter heli, how complicated is this to set-up on a radio for a beginner? Does it have a dramatic effect on heli stability or tracking when learning the basics of flying? Or is it purely for sport and 3D flying?

Thanks!

[ClayK]

Odd that you bring it up. I was just researching on it myself.

http://www.helifreak.com/about7682.html&highlight=ccpm

has a good article in it. Apparently there is some debate on the subject that's long standing. My understanding is 3 servos to move the swash is CCPM, however, CCPM wasn't really brought up when 4 servos were doing the same job. This is the information I have gleaned from the guys at my field and at my LHS. Shrug :?

[DebianDog]

Well Alan Szabo flies mechanical (or non-CCPM in my mind) How do you think he flies?

It is nice to have less control mechanisms to worry about but I have noticed my CCPM machines tend to tear out the servo gears on a crash.

[Tom Fiddler]

You will need a "computer" radio to fly a CCPM machine. But I reccomend buying a good radio when you start anyway, you'll want it later.
And you will really see no difference in flight as a beginner.
I think CCPM is easier to setup than mechanical mix heli, but that is all I have owned.
Tracking and stability are a funcion of heli setup and size for the most part.

Either system can be made to fly well, or like garbage!
The most important thing to remember about R/C Heli's is that the setup is everything.
Good Luck and Welcome

[Espeefan]

Thanks for the link and additonal info guys. I'm a little a cloudy on the whole topic yet, but mostly because I am not firmilar with the servo mounts, linkages, and arrangements in RC helis.

Could someone post or provide a link with an actual picture of the components and linkage arrangements of a CCPM heli and a non CCPM heli?

[ClayK]

I'm pretty new at this as well, but I'll give ya what I got.

The last two pictures are a Raptor 50. When the swash has to move up, a single servo pushes the entire pitch arm upwards. When it has to tip right or left, a single servo moves the swash that direction.

The first picture is of a TRex with CCPM. The links (1) on this setup work in conjunction with each other.When the pitch servo (the one furthest away in the shot) need to push up, the aileron servo (the one closest in the shot) pulls down. Both servos exert motion on the swash. When the swash needs to move up for pitch increase, all three servos push up at the same time.

That's about all I have been able to figure out on it. Someone else can chime in here.

[ClayK]

Well Alan Szabo flies mechanical (or non-CCPM in my mind) How do you think he flies?

It is nice to have less control mechanisms to worry about but I have noticed my CCPM machines tend to tear out the servo gears on a crash.

It seems I'm replacing gears on my CCPM TRex a lot, but then again it's the only one I do anything with right now. The Raptor has been only been hovered for engine break-in.

[Espeefan]

Thanks for the pictures Clay. That helps quite a bit. I can see how the CCPM has fewer linkages to do the same job and I can see how it's better for more then one servo to be asigned the task. The servos look like they have a straight shot to the swash plate. Pretty cool. Those anodized parts look great! :cool:

So with CCPM on a .60 sized machine, what kind of torque should the servos be capable of putting out? I realize if more then one servo is working the swash plate the load is shared, but still, how much torque would each servo need to have?

[DebianDog]

So with CCPM on a .60 sized machine, what kind of torque should the servos be capable of putting out?

Well it is like all things 'ARGUABLE'. The minimum is around 40 but most people use at least 70 oz. With a speed of .2 or less. This give you a combined torque of 210 oz. to raise and lower the pitch. Arguably overkill.

I find the Futaba 9202's fast enough for me but many opt for the faster digital 9252's

[WayneBrown]

I had a Fury with an old set of 9202's on it that I could get the servos to stall and the machine 'fall off' towards a random side..
It could have been the age, but I really believe it had to do with the center holding power of the digitals vs. analog.
Digitals are much stronger around center than analog servos.

[Espeefan]

Thanks. I will keep that in mind when buying a radio. I already have a Futaba 9CAPS for surface use that I bought for another RC project, but most likely I will find myself buying another for air use, especially with the now pretty common CCPM birds.

[MadMikey]

The T-rex SE is ccpm and the servos directly mount to the swash plate, but the xl ccpm the servos hook up to a "T" link then to the swash plate. On the SE version you will strip the gears in a crash but the XL it will take alot to strip then. a friend of mine has the XL CCPM and had a pretty good crash and lost no servos!! another guy in our club crashed his SE at our Heli Fly-in and i beleive i heard him say 2 servos stripped. so there are two ways a ccpm can be set on some helis. so directly link to the servo some have a control arm then the servo. i have both a ccpm and hde. i have a t-rex ccpm and a raptor 50, and the t-rex has a little bit fast control responce than the raptor. the raptor is a great flying machine. i learned on my t-rex so you can go either way!!! either way just make sure you have it set up right and you will have a killer heli!!

Mike