Quick UK Clutch Help on Raptor 50V2

[Krypty]

I had a crash a few weeks ago and did the whole repair. As you know this is the perfect time for upgrades. I got the QuickUK Heavy Duty clutch for my Raptor 50V2 and installed it.

The following problems started:
1. After installation the clutch was always engaged on the bench. I could not turn the gears by hand.
I took the clutch out and removed the shim that was also installed on the previous TT clutch. Now the clutch moved freely.

2. Went to the field and started the Heli. The idle was perfect and clutch did not engage until throttle is applied.
Then I spinned the Heli up to a hover and the engine would cut off totally. Did this 2-3 times same results. (Luckily Auto is easy on this height)

3. Went back to the bench removed the QuickUK HD clutch and installed the old TT clutch back with the supplied shim and now it works perfectly.

What could the problem be as I would like to install the Quick UK clutch.
:arggg:

[BarracudaHockey]

You didn't put the washer under the fan by any chance did you?

[Wa11banger]

I am not sure why clutch engagement would kill your engine especially during a hover where all is engaged and pretty much operating as one unit. Unless your fan has come loose and is dragging on the top of the clutch bell. But this would be evident even at idle as you tried to hold the blades still. Here is a question and a few suggestions

1)What fan are you using?
2)The QUK clutch does not need the thin shim between it and the fan
3) Ensure you did not use the engine washer under the fan between engine and fan
4)Ensure fan was tight to engine
5)I always remove and replace a liner with any clutch change so I can get proper clearance and tolerances
6)Ensure engine to clutch aligment was properly setup.. This is a tedious part of these particular helis as there are no real indicators that you are aligned correctly.. A decent way to start is by having the engine loose but tight enough that it stays where you put it. move the engine back and forth in the frame and try to free wheel the start shaft.. If it is hard to turn you are a little off on alignment. Move the engine until it is very easy to turn.. This gets you close now you have to get the rest spot on :D

If the clutch does not drag during idle, that means the fan has not spun loose (Normally) there is no reason for your engine to die abruptly just because of a clutch change. let me know about the things posted above and we can go from there

Rick

[BarracudaHockey]

Any chance that during the crash repair you used RTV to seal the muffler, you could have separate issues, as Rick said, there's no good reason for the clutch to kill the motor in a hover.

[Krypty]

You didn't put the washer under the fan by any chance did you?

BarracudaHockey: No, i did not take the fan off after the crash as this was still on tight, and the Hyper ran fine before the crash now for about 100 flights with no problem. If the washer is installed will it make a difference between the 2 clutches? (TT and Quick UK)

1)What fan are you using?
2)The QUK clutch does not need the thin shim between it and the fan
3) Ensure you did not use the engine washer under the fan between engine and fan
4)Ensure fan was tight to engine
5)I always remove and replace a liner with any clutch change so I can get proper clearance and tolerances
6)Ensure engine to clutch aligment was properly setup.. This is a tedious part of these particular helis as there are no real indicators that you are aligned correctly.. A decent way to start is by having the engine loose but tight enough that it stays where you put it. move the engine back and forth in the frame and try to free wheel the start shaft.. If it is hard to turn you are a little off on alignment. Move the engine until it is very easy to turn.. This gets you close now you have to get the rest spot on


Okay here we go.....Rick :D

1. I am using the normal fan that came with the V2 kit.

2. I thought so.

3. Will it make a difference if you use the washer with the 2 different clucthes becuase I have run this engine like this now for about 100 flights with no problems. I cannot remember if I put the washer in I will have to check and come back to you on that one.

4. I know the fan is tight, I also checked this after the crash. I had problems with fan coming loose when I started a year ago and we tightned it so much I think you will need 2 people to loosen it.

5. I replaced the liner after the crash so we can rule that out. I do not have the means to measure the clearance but I did use 2 layers of electrical tape on the clutch when installing the liner in the bell.

6. Here I have question: I had to install new frames after the crash. I checked the starter shaft and it seemed fine. But after I completed the frame it seems that you can move the starter shaft a few millimeters to each side. Seems there is some play somewhere but I checked the frame and it really tight with no gaps nowhere.

I haven't ever done a engine to clutch alignment I just thought you put it in and it should be at the right place as I have never had a problem with it. I will check. When the engine is in and I try to spins the gears with my hand it does not turn really easy.

When I started the engine with the Quick UK clutch it idle's perfectly.

Any chance that during the crash repair you used RTV to seal the muffler, you could have separate issues, as Rick said, there's no good reason for the clutch to kill the motor in a hover.

BarracudaHockey: I used a sealant between the Hyper and my MP2 but when I installed the normal TT clutch it ran fine now for 3 tanks.

Maybe I should just leave the TT clutch in for now and fly it like that.

Thank you for all your help :D :D :D

[Janek]

[quote]But after I completed the frame it seems that you can move the starter shaft a few millimeters to each side. Seems there is some play somewhere but I checked the frame and it really tight with no gaps nowhere.

This could be part of your problem, it sounds like your Pinion Bearing has worn the pinion. Unfortunately to replace these two items requires a "Frame Split".

I assume this is probably the first time you've split the frames since it was first built. . . . . the lesson here is to check EVERYTHING, because it's a real pain to miss something, and have to split the frames multiple times. Don't bother to ask how I know that :shock: :lol: :lol:

[Krypty]

This is the second time that I split the frames but this is my first set of new frames. I replaced the bearings on the starter shaft but not the pinion.

Could this also be the problem...... I did not know the pinion could wear down. :?

[BarracudaHockey]

Its best to use green locktite between the pinnion and the bearing, the inner race of the bearing will wear a groove in the pinnion and you can get the play in the start shaft.

[phaed]

"...there's no good reason for the clutch to kill the motor in a hover..."

i'm not sure why either, but mine had a similar problem. mine also died while in hover. i dropped the engine to find that the fan had come loose, pushing the clutch bolts up into the clutch bell, keeping it always engaged.

the only thing i can think of is that during rotor load changes, the clutch does actually need to slip a bit. the way my bolts were, it couldn't slip. changing the load on the rotor blades might torque the engine too much and kill it under these circumstances. just pulling stuff outa my butt here.

[Krypty]

UPDATE!!!!!!!!

I dropped the engine last night and found that the washer was still installed between the fan and the engine. I removed it and installed the QuickUK HD clutch without the shim.

Now I can spin the main gear freely without a problem.

I will check over the weekend if my problem is sorted and I will let you guys know.

Thanks for all the help so far.
:D

[Janek]

Krypty, if you read the first response to your issue, you'll notice that BarracudaHockey hit your problem on the head first time :wink: , it's always a good idea to check peoples suggestions, otherwise we start going off on tangents :lol: :lol:

Knowing that you've been running the engine washer (and that's a no, no on any Raptor 30/50/60/90), you need to check the inside of your clutch bell, because it WILL be scored, especially right in the corner. You'll need to replace the bell, because if you don't it'll fail, probably when you least expect it. It'll fail and leave the bell in two parts, a flat disk, attached to the start shaft, and a disk, that drops off the clutch shoes, allowing the engine to over rev, and buggering up the clutch.

And guess what. . . . . you'll have to split the frames again to do it. . . . . sorry :cool:

[Krypty]

Janek

I have run this OS Hyper about 100 Flights with no problem with the washer and standard TT Clutch. I only started getting the problem when installing the new QuickUK clutch.

The bell is also quite new as I replaced it after another crash. BTW you don't need to split the frames to get that out.

Thank you anyway
Pieterjan

[Janek]

If you can get your clutch bell out without splitting the frames (or breaking the lower bearing mouldings), your pinion gear isn't tight enough in the frame bearing, that in itself will cause you problems, as the pinion will quickly wear as it slips within the bearing :wink:

If you managed to run with the standard TT clutch and the engine washer fitted, problem free, you were extremely lucky. I've seen many Raptors built like that, and they all had issues from their first flight.

Please note, I'm not having a go here, as the crappy TT instructions don't show or explain that the engine washer isn't required, so the fault is with TT, NOT you or anyone else that gets this wrong. Many, many people do get this wrong, even very experianced pilots :shock:, for example, there was a 3D Masters pilot practising with his R90 at my field one day, being aided by a well known UK Heli shop owner. He was having problems, and was getting nowhere, he dropped his engine out and started poking about. . . . . . I picked his engine up and spotted the washer was fitted, I suggested he remove it. . . . . . . the Heli shop owner and I had quite a "Discussion", but the pilot took my advise, remove the washer. . . . . from that point on his issues went away. The Heli shop owner had to eat humble pie :twisted:

[Krypty]

Janek

I will have look tonight when I get home on your suggestion on the pinion gear and bearing.

Anyways thank you for your advise and I will let you know what happens.
I am always eager to learn in this hobby as a person will never know everything.

:noteworthy

[BarracudaHockey]

The only reason I didn't put the damn washer on there when I first built mine is I followed Raptor Technique to the letter when I built my first one.

[Seeker]

I hate to be a pain in the butt here... I used RT a bunch and I though I remembered asking that question and looking it up....

First remove any washers from the crankshaft of the engine. http://www.raptortechnique.com/manual/manual_30-50-v2/r30-50_page13.htm

[Janek]

I tell you what, it's about time Ace/Thunder Tiger started to pay Michael Prewitt for his invaluable contribution to their machines. He provides the vital information that Thunder Tiger continues to miss from their instructions.

A vote of thanks to Raptor Technique, and Michael, is in order.

[Krypty]

Michael Prewitt

:noteworthy :noteworthy :noteworthy :noteworthy

We are not worthy!!!!