View Full Version : What did you do to speed up cyclic response?
I recently switched heli brands and I just flew (3D) my predator for the first time today. I noticed that the cyclic response is too slow for me. I am running 710 (176g) Rotortech's with the MAH (23g?) paddles. I have the right ball in the inside hole and the left ball in the middle hole on the bell mixers. I know if I put the ball left ball in the outside hole it will speed the cyclic up, but I am worried about the angle of the push rod to the flybar. Are you guys flying with the ball in the outside hole?
The MAH paddles weigh 23 grams I think. I have a pair of big fat carbon Century paddles that weigh 17 grams. I am going to try these first.
The other question is, how much cyclic are you guys running? I have 6 degrees. That is what is came out to be with 20mm servo wheels at 50% on the swash screen of the 14MZ. I have no binding at all, so I am sure I can get more cyclic. How much cyclic is too much on a predator?
I will change the paddles tomorrow, I hope it helps cause it is quite the pooch as is.
Mike
Ok I weighed the MAH paddles. They weigh 25.6g. I think this is the problem. I will try the 17g Century paddles tomorrow and post the results.
Mike
mplourde
04-10-2006, 09:36 PM
Keep us informed... I'am waiting your next post..... :cool:
Foxden
04-10-2006, 10:59 PM
Mike, are the Century paddles the grey ones? Steven ran those for a while on his P-Max but we are now running the Century Carbon paddles, very light and very agressive, but they are still great for the old man haha stable in a hover and FF and they wake up when the kid takes it for a spin. :cool:
I'm running the middle hole of three on one side and the inner hole of two on the other
Rodney
04-11-2006, 03:17 PM
Go left. On all the holes. Try out the Century paddles and let me know what you think.
6 to 7 deg. should be good enough for most.
Clyde,
The paddles I am going to try today are the carbon Century paddles.........
http://www.heli-world.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CN2299A&Category_Code=
Mike
Foxden
04-11-2006, 06:20 PM
Mike,
Those are the ones were running, Steven has the weights on but they are moved all the way in against the flybar carrier.
It is windy and raining today so I will have to put the test flight off unitll tomorrow.
I moved the ball from the center hole to the outer hole on the flybar side. The swash side is still in the inside hole. I put the flybar lock on and rechecked the pitch. The pitch went from 11 degrees to 12 degrees on top and bottom, just by moving that ball. I used the swash function in the 14MZ and set it back to 11 degrees on top and bottom. The cyclic went from 6 degrees to 7 degrees just by moving the ball. The increase in cyclic is Ok with me because that is what I am trying to speed up. I may have to back the pitch out a little to keep from blade stalling. The way I understand it, you should not exceed 17 degrees of combined cyclic/pitch. So if i have 11 on the pitch and 7 on the cyclic, I have 18 total right now. I am going to try it this way because I am rarely at max pitch and cyclic at the same time.
I also put the paddle listed above on for good measure. If it is too fast (I dont think so) I will try the MAH paddles again. I also have the stock grey 20g paddles for an "in between".
Mike
Ok that sped the cyclic way up. It is much faster than it was, I can work with with this. It is alot closer to what I am used to. It has a very fast roll/tumble rate. By the way it is not exactly a Predator, check gallery for more details.
Mike
Mike, most of the hard core Predator fliers setup with full swash throw...
So that's just before the swash touches the main mast (underneath)
At that point you will get a little binding and need to back off a bit
(there's a mod you can do eliminate the binding)
I think I was able to get 7.5 degrees of cyclic
But I started with 6.5 to be safe, it was very stable and a tad slow.
I agree with Rodney - use far left hole on both sides of the bell hiller mixer.
The hard core 3D boys seem to run headspeeds around 1900 to 2000
There is another trick however, I think this came from the master, John Benario
There is a brass spacer between the bell hiller mixer and the blade grip
Later kits (like mine) had a longer spacer, which slows things down
Approx 3mm was the original, mine was nearly double - so cut it down
This increases the cyclic pitch applied from both the swash and the flybar
Be careful with those large Century paddles,
they will be applying larger loads to the flybar
Note also that the paddles won't change the max cyclic/roll/flip rate,
they only change how quick it kicks in
Hope that helps...
I agree with you on the paddles. The cyclic kicks in real quick, even with very little stick input. The paddles are a little quick off center. It seems like I am getting all of the cyclic in the 1st 1/4 of the stick, but not much more as you add more stick. I am going to be trying the stock grey paddles just to see. Mabey I will try the MAH paddles again since I moved the ball on the bell mixer. I have my head speed at 1850 in Idle1, I will be setting idle2 to 1950. I have the short spacers under the bell mixers already. Have there been flybar breakage problems with the big paddles? I know people are breaking X-cell flybars with the funtech paddles which are similar to the Century carbon paddles.
Mike
No breakages that I am aware of
I just feel that they don't solve the problem and add higher loads...
Trying to remove flybar stabalisation via hugh aerodynamic paddles
is probably not the best way to go anyhow, non proportiional and twitchy result.
Use the grey paddles and go for more swash throw (Bell input).
I just found a set of NIB V-paddles that have been laying around. I am going to try them as I fly them on my other models. The V-Paddles weigh the same as the grey ones from Century (20g). I like the paddles that set screw to the flybar or otherwise lock to the flybar without glue. I will post the results here.
Mike
Well I think the V-paddles are the ticket for me. They seem to be just right for my style. My over all set-up is smooth but quick. I have a little tweeking to do but for the most part I am happy.
Mike
Foxden
04-21-2006, 07:50 AM
Mike,
The smoothest machine I've flown yet has to be Tim T's Milli III on his 14MZ, everything is silky smooth, then I would have to say is Steven's P-Max. We've been flying the Predators since they came out and have been very happy. We are going to look at a Reactor conversion for the future. I had a chat with Rodney last night and will get a chance to talk to him about it for 14 hrs when were on our way to Mayday in a few weeks. Can't wait.
So Rodney will be your wing man, no pun intended. :D :D :smokin:
Rodney
04-21-2006, 05:49 PM
When will we get to see it rock there 3DME? Looking forward to see how it compares to the other conversions out there.
You will if I can find someone to rock it. My skills are quite chump like.
Mike
Rodney
04-21-2006, 06:03 PM
LOL thats funny. I have the same problem but im working on them.
Foxden
04-21-2006, 07:01 PM
Bring her down here and Steven will ring it's neck for ya.
So how is the Reactor project coming along Mike?
It is coming along very well. We are crash testing the hell out of them. These machines are proving to be very durable and easy to work on. The break away canopy mounts work like a champ. The landing gear hold up much better than I thought they would be in a crash. Only two of them have been crashed, but both were pretty hard with very little damage to the conversion parts. None of the side frames were damaged in the two crashes. One of the crashed ones is mine but someone else was flying it when it broke then tackled it self.
Mike
trace
06-25-2006, 06:27 PM
Hey Mike,
What's the word on this conversion? We haven't heard anything since the middle of May. Pricing? Availability? Replacement parts?
craigoku
07-28-2006, 01:46 AM
There is all this mumbo jumbo, but nothing about what kind of flight pack he is running, get off that nims or nicad. Go Fromeco AZ reg and step up the voltage to 6.V That should speed it up! lol
Rodney
07-28-2006, 09:23 PM
Its already at 6 Volts. Just like the Nite rig Craig.