View Full Version : Well...this is unreal...
Greg Alderman
05-04-2006, 09:39 AM
since getting the boot off of RR I sometimes go over and troll the Bergen Forum and the Jet Forum to see what is going on...the below thread really caught my attention this morning...hadn't noticed it before...some very intesting reading...
I don't know Joseph and never had any dealings with him...although have heard a lot of things from friends about him...this just seems over the top...
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t252124p1/
Gary O
05-04-2006, 10:19 AM
You would think after all the bad comments on this guy he would just fade off into the sunset. I would be going to pay someone a visit and I would make sure I came away with my money.
DebianDog
05-04-2006, 10:37 AM
That 'Sub Sailor' guys seems pretty smart. :smokin:
This guy went to the trouble to research Joseph and airstar found the neg comments and problems other people had in the past. Then with this knowledge he felt that for some unknow reason he would be treated right and ordered over 6K of stuff from him. He didn't even try a small sample order first, just here's $6,600 please don't screw me.
Boy did he learn other wise.
At this point he needs to contact his bank a do a charge back, NOW.
Rudy
The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
Janek
05-04-2006, 11:53 AM
DOH, some people just don't listen, and if they do listen, they they are too stupid to understand.
He's a typical target for the rip-off merchants, and he set himself up nicely.
Sounds like he took out a bank loan and paid cash ?, or am I reading that wrong, which is pretty easy to do, as the guy sure doesn't have a way with words.
Dan, Sub-Sailor a smart guy ? :wink: :lol:
Greg Alderman
05-04-2006, 12:07 PM
damn Guys...the originator of the thread is not the bad guy or the guy in the wrong... :arggg:
I just can't believe that Airstar get's away with this crap...sort of reminds me of a gent over your way Janek... :thumbup:
Gary O
05-04-2006, 12:22 PM
Greg,
The only thing I can see wrong with the originator of the post, is what has already been mentioned. If you know going in the problems, it should throw out a red flag saying stop. Now granted, AirStar shouldn't be screwing people around, but no one should think just because they are a nice guy it's going to be any different than in the past. I don't think he's a bad guy or in the wrong, he just made a mistake. In the end probably a costly one. Until somebody really cracks down on this guy and hits him in the financial pocket, it's not going to change. He's proven over and over how he does business.
I've been reading the thread in amazement as well. I'd heard quite a lot about Airstar's dealings from my US helicopter friends and when I saw the thread start I thought "Surely with all this publicity Joseph will make sure he does the right thing." But no ....
I know so well how small our world is in turbines, jets and helicopters. One of us sneezes and is overheard, half an hour later somebody from the other side of the world emails and says "I hear you've caught a cold." News gets around so fast, and I've always said that there is no point in being dishonest, you'll get caught out sooner or later. Yet Joseph is constantly being caught out and is still in business. Very odd. Are there still so many people out there who don't have the internet and can't check these things?
Sara Parish
Wren Turbines
flyinfool
05-04-2006, 01:13 PM
At this moment the guy that started the thread is going thru and deleting all of his posts.
Maybe getting blackmailed into not telling the truth.
Gary O
05-04-2006, 02:29 PM
On that site, I'm surprised he didn't get the MR boot way before now.
Janek
05-04-2006, 03:46 PM
Looks like Airstar are starting to dig their own grave. . . . . . :shock:
Gary O
05-04-2006, 04:22 PM
As long as bad reports have been coming about them, the grave has been dug for a while. How they continue to doop people into thinking they are worthy of doing business with is what's really surprising. What's really bad is the heli side of the hobby is not that large when you look at the big picture. Then like Sara said, the turbine side is even smaller. People that do business this way have no place in a hobby this small since it really hurts.
The one thing that needs to be remembered however, is that this person did the homework and knew of past problems and decided to go ahead anyway.
wolfdad
05-04-2006, 05:53 PM
Greg,
This is, in now way, "over the top" for Joeseph. In fact, this is actually pretty typical for this jerk-water....glad all of that wound up over on RR. Joeseph and discussions about Joeseph below over on the "sewer channel (sorry folks...just got no use for RR)." Like I have told a number of folks, I just about had Joeseph dead to rights on a credit card fraud charge a couple of years back, then somebody (person or persons shall remain nameless) tipped him off and he sent the merchandise.
Guess I've stirred the pot enough on this one, however I am glad to see that, at least, the individual did his homework, however you just can't cure stupid.
Doc
Heli_jack
05-05-2006, 07:16 AM
Funny how joseph has the guy apologizing for trying to do business with him. Yeah this dude is one who can read the label and still eat the poison.
Life does wierd things.
Jack
1275mini
05-05-2006, 09:51 AM
Happens both side of the pond guys :glasses:
wolfdad
05-05-2006, 09:52 AM
Jack,
I do like the way you put it...."reads the label and still swallows the poison."
Joeseph will truck on and, eventually piss the wrong person off and, he will just mysteriously disappear....seems that everything equals out eventually.
On the flip side of the coin, it becomes incumbent on us to get the word out for Al Wert at Starwood and Joe Howard, the "real" Vario US distributor. These two are truely two of the "good guys" in this hobby.
Doc
Laurens
05-05-2006, 05:34 PM
That airstar page on vario looks VERY strange. Parts breaking with no reason whatsoever. Here in Europe Vario is more popular but I NEVER heard of those parts breaking.
I had a vario heli myself and just looking at the size of it makes me think if its even possible.
Heli_jack
05-06-2006, 07:17 AM
But Doc, the issue is the dude still shoots his foot knowing the gun is loaded and pointing at his foot.
The worst part of the whole thing, is this is bad for the hobby in general. Stupid people always will be, but thiefs need to be addressed and dealt with in a legal and sane manner. One bad apple can spoil the whole bunch. Since he is doing business over the phone and internet I wonder if the Feds can do anything?
WillJames
05-06-2006, 08:08 AM
I agree with you 100% Jack. We the heli community should do something about it. We want to build up this hobby, not allow it to be torn down. Surely there is something that can be done since like you say he is doing business over the phone and internet.
wolfdad
05-06-2006, 03:01 PM
Will,
I think, at this point in the hobby with me, that Airstar is the only one I would like to see get torpedo'ed. I am sure there other unscrupulous retailers out there, however I have found my niche, so to speak, and deal with the same folks over and over.
Jack,
You are absolutely correct...it reflects badly on the hobby overall, however, it seems that the best we can do is make sure that folks we come into contact with in the hobby know who "deals the dirt," and who doesn't. I can honestly say that I can count on one hand the number of folks I felt treated me unfairly and, out of those five, I have made amends with 4...Airstar and Joeseph being the only one that screwed me with nothing I could do about it. Also, he has "attached" himself to several other entities that I no longer do business with and, keep in mind, there is protection in numbers, if you know what I mean.
BTW, Jack are you all set for Circumgyration? Sounds like a real "blow-out" this year with Dr. Tim, yourself, Peter Jakadofsky, Len and a host of others. That's my old stomping ground (San Jose area) and I would almost kill to come out this year, however we will be there in 07, God willing and the creek don't rise anymore than it already has.
Doc :wink:
NolanManley
05-06-2006, 05:19 PM
That Fu&*ing Joseph is a crook and needs to have his jugular slit.
I'm thinking Mark Ryder should really look in the mirror and ask why he wants to support that ******* by taking his advertising money. Kinda like taking drug money in my opinion. Yeah, its spends but at how many lost lives does it come by.
I tried to find that shit heads business a few years ago and all the info I could dig up lead to a home in north LA that was not his. I took my (small) loss and learned from it.
I still wouldn't mind getting my knuckles bloodied on him. :twisted:
wolfdad
05-06-2006, 07:32 PM
Nolan,
When Mark Ryder in so many words made the statement that, if he shut down his web site, the entire hobby would go away, was when I made my exit and haven't even looked back and another reason was the fact that the almighty dollar seems to be what the jerk is chasing. He knows, without doubt, that he has several advertisers that have royally screwed over his site patrons. Hell! You can start and stop with Irwin and Josef.
Josef is one devious MF and, like I said in an earlier post, he's going to screw over the wrong person and wind up mysteriously going away....kinda' like Hoffa. And, it sure won't hurt my feelings to see some of his LA homies go with him. Of course we can always hope that he puts too much of his profit up his nose and OD's, but then again, that's too much to hope for.
Doc
WillJames
05-07-2006, 07:34 AM
I'm thinking Mark Ryder should really look in the mirror and ask why he wants to support that ******* by taking his advertising money. Kinda like taking drug money in my opinion. Yeah, its spends but at how many lost lives does it come by.
That is one thing you can say about the FREAK, is that we have turned down advertisers here who we don't think are honest. For example - I turned down Irwin a couple of months ago. I told him I saw him fly into those peoples tent at IRCHA without even an apology and I was not interested in doing business with him. There have been a couple others as well.
Money is nice but we got some scruples.
Heli_jack
05-07-2006, 07:40 AM
Ya Doc, am mostly ready. Not flying my heli's so I have something to take this year.
I know of a skinhead who for $50 will go knock on his door.....Hmmm he probably needs transportation ..... he doesn't drive yet. Big dude tho.
wolfdad
05-07-2006, 10:11 AM
Jack,
Good luck, shipmate and say hello to everyone and, talk to Dr. Tim about the phone messages he leaves :D :D :D
Will,
You and HF are among the few....probably next to Mark "propping up the hobby" with his web site (with a lot of sarcasm :badair: ) are the reasons I hang my hat here. To sit back and watch the "other" site "promote" the hobby while taking money from advertisers who are known to screw heli folks to the wall just is wrong. And the censorship was "the straw that broke the camel's back," for me. When someone is so paranoid that they blot out the word Helifreak totally astounds me. I can most certainly see that offensive language should be 86'ed at times, however I don't find the word Helifreak to be offensive. To encourage competition is to make everyone competing better...to discourage competition simply leads to mediocrity. As I said above RR no longer competes for my business.
Doc