Ready for a Stratus?

[Aviation addict]

Guys I'd really appreciate your advice.

I currently have a blinged up Raptor 50 and after flying for 1 yr am (only) at the level of doing stationary rolls, flips, autos (the right way up). Friends at my club have Expert 70s and one has Tempest.

I'm mad keen to get an XCell, and most people are advising I get a 90 rather than buy a 70 and upgrade later. Would you go along with this?

In my position would you improve your skill level further before moving up to a bigger machine?

Would I improve at a quicker rate with a larger (more visible at distance) heli?

What kind of flight time should I expect with an OS SZ-H w/pump + regulator?

Enough questions for now eh.

You've all been where I'm at probably. I'd really appreciate your advice.

John.

[Peter]

AT least you are contemplating the right heli !!

Get the Stratus , keep the rappy as a sacrificial test creature , and have a ball .....

The stratus will be a more precise machine , power management is still as important though ...
Even if you dont improve , you'll feel like you have !!!!

I have a YS in mine , so cant commment on the SZ times ......

I can assure you that you'll love it though ..... :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

[Laurens]

I want a bigger heli so its more visible up high, so I can try new manouvres more safe.

Its a good reason to get a 90 for you.

[Ray Fernandez]

To answer your first question, getting a 90 XCell sounds logical. No need to upgrade should you decide to buy it. However, nothing wrong either with the 60/70 size Furies. Mine ( a 60 size Expert) does very well in the 3D arena and doesn't cost me a whole lot of fuel. My 90 Stratus and Tempest eat fuel like there's no tomorrow. :roll:

Your skill level can also improve with the use of your Raptor. I agree with Peter in that keeping your Rappy for the "all out, tear up the sky, I really don't mind if it crashes", flying, is a good idea. Plus you can learn more newer manuvers with the Rappy and not jepordize the bigger birds. I like the idea of a larger heli to view.

Now as far as the flight time, I currently have OS .91s SZH (no pump) and these babies give me around 12 to 15 minutes of flight time. Just to also be fair, it'll depend on your flying style as to how long you can be flying each flight session.

Good luck in your decision. Choosing a X Cell is good.

[DavidH]

John ,
The only difference size wise between the 60/70 and the 90 series. The tail boom is 1.5 inches longer. Other than that the dimensions are the same between them.
So the 90 size is not really going to be any more visible than the 60 size.

Flight time with a 90SZ. You can expect about 9 to 12 mins. It would depend on your flying style. Most of the 3D pilots get around 9 mins on 18-20 ozs of fuel per flight.

You could get the Fury Extreme or Tempest and put a 60 or 70 in them. If fuel costs is a concern that is what I would suggest. Not sure if MA has the plates and spacers to put a 60 or 70 in the Stratus. But it should not be to difficult to do if that is the route you want to go.

The larger helis definitely fly better than the smaller rotor disk helis.

David

[Gary O]

It really doesn't matter what level of flying you're at when deciding what to fly, or, at least I don't think it does. Any of the MA helis, Tempest, Stratus, or Extreme are all great machines and will do anything you want them to.

IMHO, upgrading is just a waste of money. Go ahead and get what you know you are going to be flying and be done with it. You'll actually save in the long run and you will be getting better at the same time. As far as which one, I have all of em and I like them the same. The Stratus is definietly lighter and you can feel it while flying, but they all fly great.

[Aviation addict]

Thanks for all your advice guys,

I was wondering what to do with my Raptor, but I think you're right that I should keep it and use it as a 'sacrificial test creature'!

I've not actually seen a Stratus in the flesh yet, but the Tempest and Expert's that I have seen seem to fly beautifully.

Regarding fuel efficiency, I was wondering whether the lighter Stratus would actually end up using less fuel than say a C Spec'd Tempest. I'd just be flying mild aerobatics to begin with. Do you think the weight difference in the Stratus gives slightly more flight time?

Another bone head question for you: What are the essential differences between the standard SZ-H and the Pumped SZ-H. I understand that the pumped version copes better with continuous hard 3D manouvres (stops the mixture leaning out)? What if any difference would I see doing basic moves? Obviously you don't buy a 90 for good fuel efficiency, but is one more economical than the other, or would you only notice the difference when doing crazy continuous 3D stunts? Price wise there seems very little in it - so which one's best?

Cheers...

[DavidH]

I personally would get the 91 SZ with pump and regulator if I was buying a new 90 size motor. The pump and regular SZ will have the same fuel comsumpition when being ran the same.

The lighter heli is not going allow the motor to use any less fuel of a heli that weighs more. Not enough difference that will be noticeable.

David

[Aviation addict]

Thanks David that clears things up for me.

I'm still quite keen to join the MA club and am planning on buying new. Could you tell me what you think of the following set-up at all;

Stratus Kit
OS SZ-H with P/p and Reg
Hattori 938 (same as SB 16 I understand)
4 off Futaba 9252's
SAB 710mm main blades 105mm tail blades
Futaba GY611 + S9256
3600 Mah NiMh Batt

Would you go along with the above?

[Zilly]

When I bought my Stratus I had been flying a Raptor up until then, once I had got to grips with the Stratus I never gave a thought to flying the Raptor so I sold it and spent some money on building up spares for the Stratus. You have to be prepared to spend more money when you fly a 90 so the Raptor had to go.

As for Fuel Consumption I get six flights out of a gallon of fuel. I fly 30% at £18 per gallon so each flight is costing me £3.00 Or $5 for our American friends). on a good day I'll burn a gallon on a really good day 1.5 gallons. Its very easily done with a 90.

I get 10 min av flight time.

z

[DavidH]

I would get the muffler that is equilavent to the SB 17 or 18. The SB 16 has just a too small of a volume for the OS 91SZ.

I would suggest the 9255 servos or 9451 servos for the swash plate controls. You can use just about any other servo on the throttle.
The rest of the list looks OK. You might consider some Lithium Ion Batteries over the NIMH.

David

[Aviation addict]

Thanks once again David, I'll take all of that onboard!

[Aviation addict]

Torque or Speed ?!

I've done a bit of homework and it seems the 9255 has much more torque 9.0kg / 125 Ib's [/ 0.16 sec @ 4.8V] where as the 9451 has speed - 0.13 sec but 97 Ib torque (6.9 kg). They both seem to be precision servos which I understand is essential for the CCPM swash.

Which would you choose? I like the idea of 0.13 seconds, but would 9.0 kg's of torque be of more benefit.

Thanks for pointing out these two servos, the 9451 certainly beats the 9252 (0.14 sec/ 6.6kg) on both speed and torque!

[Peter]

I have 9252's on my Stratus , and on one of my Spectra G's ; a couple of Australia's best 3Dérs have thrown the Stratus about a lot harder than I can , and they were impressed !!!!

decisions... decisions ,,,,, :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[DavidH]

The pilots that are using the 9451's on the Stratus are running them on 6 Volts. That way they get 120 ozs of torque and transistion time of .10. They are using 5.3 volts to the GY 611/9256 by way of a step down regulator.


S9451 High Torque/High Speed
FUTM0241
Volts Torque Speed
4.8V 96.6 oz-in. 0.13 sec/60°
6.0V 120.8 oz-in. 0.10 sec/60°
Dimensions Weight
1.6 x 0.8 x 1.4 in. 2.0 oz.


9255 and 9252 are only specified to be use on a 4.8 volt setup.

S9255 Heli High Torque/High Speed
FUTM0225
Volts Torque Speed
4.8V 112.0 oz-in. 0.17 sec/60°
6.0V n/a n/a
Dimensions Weight
1.6 x 0.8 x 1.4 in. 1.9 oz.

9252 specs

S9252 All-Purpose
FUTM0222
Volts Torque Speed
4.8V 91.6 oz-in. 0.14 sec/60°
6.0V n/a n/a
Dimensions Weight
1.6 x 0.8 x 1.5 in. 1.8 oz.

David

[Aviation addict]

At the risk of sounding a total idiot, how does the 6V system work? Lithium Ion Battery (Duralite?) plugged into the RX but a reglator slots in after the switch to supply the GY611? I have a JR RS10DS synthesised Rx - would it handle 6V's?

John
PS What size battery are people using with this kind of system?

[DavidH]

Lithium Ion batteries are 3.7 volts each. So an Ion pack is 7.4 volts and about 8.2 to 8.4 volts when fully charged.
You then use a regulator to step down the voltage. The regulator can be just about any voltage. Most are 5.1, 5.3, 5.6 or 6 volts. The regulator is plugged in between the switch and the receiver if just using a regular regulator. If using a regulator with a fail safe switch, then that system is plugged in between the battery and the receiver.

http://www.duralitebatteries.com/

http://www.duralitebatteries.com/tech-ion.html#ANSWERS

http://www.duralitebatteries.com/helicopter.html

Unswitched set up.
http://www.duralitebatteries.com/images/tech-unswitchreg.jpg

Safety Switch Setup
http://www.duralitebatteries.com/images/tech-switchreg.jpg

http://www.duralitebatteries.com/tech-acc.html


The above should answer your questions.

David

[steve kra]

what servo would be recommended if staying at the 4.8v setup on cyclics. was thinking about 9255 but not sure.

[Peter]

9252 or 9255 , or hitec 6965/75/85 .......

[freddyferris]

If you do know how to Solder correctly why doent you give a try to Kopropos`?!

60° in 0,06sec at 9,5kg... You just solder the extra cable directly to the Lithium before the regulator...And well these servos are realy Evil ^^

Check KCT's Gallery here on RR... He explains the system quite good:

http://runryder.com/helicopter/gallery/1754/?script=Techno_Stuff

Freddy (KoPropo Fan)

[Aviation addict]

Thanks for all that information David, I've just spent the last hour or two absorbing it and going around the Duralite site (for the first time).

From the Servo info you posted above would I be right in saying that if I were thinking of a Duralite 4000mah LiIon 7.4V batt with a 5.1V regulator then I should only be looking at the S9451 (i.e. the others are for 4.8V)?

I notice theres a 5.3V regulator for serious Heli 3D. I've checked my GY611 spec and think its rated up to 6.0 Volts. Would 3 off S9451's on Cyclic combined with GY611 and a 5.3V regulator all work in harmony or would the 5.1V be a better idea?

I'm used to NiMh's, but have no experience of LiIon's. How many flights would you normally safely achieve at the field with LiIon's before considering charging & how long would it take to recharge the battery to full approximately?

Its been brought to my attention that the S9252 does have plastic gears where as the S9451 and S9255 have metal. Obviously the replacement plastic set are much much cheaper than metal gear sets. Are pilots favouring metal or plastic, or doesn't it really matter (until you mash them)?

[Aviation addict]

Thanks for everyones help through this post.

Reference the battery/Regulator/Servo situation, I think I'm going to use the Duralite 4000mah 7.4V LiIon with Fromeco Arizona Regulator and put 6.0 Volts to the Cyclic (S9451's) and 5.2 Volts to the Gyro. Should work. Trying to double check with JR that the JR DS10 synthesised Rx and 8700G servo can be operated at 6Volts though. Want to put an 8700G (currently just sitting on the bench) on the throttle.
:noteworthy

[invertedextreme]

I don't think the 8700G will take 6 volts, is rated at 4.8 in line with the JR 7000T Gyro I think.

I run my Stratus on a 5.3V HD Duralite Regulator for all servos and my Gyro. A 4.8v system will operate fine on this voltage as an ordinary 4.8v Ni-Cd or Ni-Mh pack will produce more voltage than 5.3v when fully charged. I run Futaba 9252s on the cyclic, 9254 on the throttle and a JR 7000T and 8700G on the tail.

My model humps on this configuration, cyclic rates are more than enough on 9252s, especially if you dial in your bell/hiller mixing as you like it on the Fury or Stratus.

I had one of the Arizona regulators in my Stratus and promptly removed it before flying, those things are physically huge in size, and I had trouble finding a decent spot for it with the Duralite pack, Gyro amp and Rev max.

Bought another duralite Regulator instead!

I have heard good things about the 6V setups though.

That said, 6.5kg of torque from the 9252s on a 90 size CCPM system are more than enough and at 0.14secs too. Remember all 3 servos are going to be your collective and any two at least will be your cyclic control. The big servos 9.0kg and above are required when you fly the single servo pitch systems such as the Freyas and Raptors.

You'll find the heavier torque Futaba servos thirsty on the battery pack but a 4000 duralite will more than last the day out!!

On the subject of your Raptor, being honest, and not slating the Raptor guys because I have had the lot at some point, but when you fly a Fury or Stratus, you won't really do much with your Raptor. As suggested above, best thing to do is sell it and use the money for spares and fuel. I tend to buy a spare or two each month and build them up ahead of any little mishaps! Most of the Raptor guys don't know just how bad those models fly, even blinged out to the max, as they have tried nothing else. I couldn't stand mine anymore after I got my first Fury.

You'll see what I mean when you fly your MA for the first time, trust me!!

[Aviation addict]

You'll see what I mean when you fly your MA for the first time, trust me!!


I do trust you! I don't think anyone I know has looked back after purchasing their first MA machine.

I'd really like to have the two models just incase one goes unservicable and I miss a good flying day, but I take your point about how much better the MA machines fly - and that I might not 'want' to fly the Rappy anymore. One of my friends who now has a 70 Fury Expert, occasionally has a go on my Raptor 50 and comments (diplomatically) that it flys 'differently' to his machine. He thinks certain moves are harder on my machine than his and that it gets very small very quickly.

Larger MA machines just look so solid in the air.

I think the S9451's running at 6v will be a bit over the top but I have a habit of doing that. I'd rather have too much grunt than not enough... Can't wait to see what it's like!

[ChrisLaFollette]

Thats the spirit. :cool: