mr2mkii
01-14-2009, 10:39 PM
(Warning: This is long, but in story form...there are PLENTY of GREAT tips for beginers in here! Of course vids had to be included!:thumbup:)
It's often tough to absorb the wealth of information within these forum walls. Even tougher to truely understand it to the level many of the board gurus have! :thinkingLike many newbies to this genre, the hover appears daunting, let alone the tricks posted in the videos. Such a seemingly simple task, has broken many a soul, and you find their 400 abandoned on EBAY. :hammer
The crash that incurred on my 3rd hover battery, wasn't about to disuade me. When I get into something, I commit..and I was making some progress! Though I really liked rebuilding her, I wanted to minimize the chance for another mishap. So what's one to do when there is a well known guru a mere 3 hours away! YOU GO! DUH! Of course, I'm talking about non other than SoKal himself. You know him, heck...close your eyes and I bet you can imagine the infamous back yard he miraculously manuevers in! Packed the B400, lots of parts, and of course the mCX for good measure.
The Arrival:
The weather was great! Sunny, slight breeze, a little chilly but no problem! When I arrived at 10:30AM, I approached the town homes from the rear and immediatly recognized it. :YeaBaby:After all, I've watched the vids as much as anyone! I nervously approached the door, knowing the schooling would soon begin.
Job, aka "SoKal", greating me warmly and I stepped inside the guru's domain. My jaw dropped:wow2:, as I first caught sight of the "TwinRexx," a chinook R/C heli (more on that later). Beside it, the B400, also immediatly recognizable. Like a toy master's shop, heli parts & frames were everywhere...all gathered around a PC that already had Phoenix running. He showed me the beautiful carbon fiber frame, with blue anodized aluminum parts...ooooh ahhhhh :drool: Then the super duty aluminum head/collective...*drool* We began the usuall chatter about the parts and "what next" on upgrades. Looking back, it was all kinda surreal to me.
I tried flying in Phoenix, and the graphics were nicer than G4, and the physics seemed smoother. Transitions seemed to react quickly, but not overly so. I had learned, from a video on you tube, to control the collective by short little blips...letting it return to nuetral. Soo the first lesson of the day began..."Don't blip it like that, you want to do SMOOTH and SMALL changes." I'd seen the vids from many a board member on just how SLIGHT it is, but with that technicque, it made that nearly impossible. :arggg:So for the remainder of the day, I would begin using that method. Keep solid on the sticks, and just make minor smooth movements.
Time to go fly:
We boxed up our gear, went to pick up his daughter, and off to the fields! We went to fly on base, one that had plenty of room. I had to improvise and build another set of practice skids...this time using the 1/8" metal rods. They were a bit longer than I wanted, but it worked and balanced fine. Sokal looked over my settings, and nodded they should be fine. At that point I didn't know if he'd want to hook up the DX6i's and use training mode, or fly mine first, or just have me fly. Sokal said "Alright, she's your bird, I'm not gonna fly it.." So off I went to embarrass myself. :oI don't know if I was more scared of crashing, or looking bad. The first few times I hopped, and had to get her trimmed better...as always that darn tail would need re-trimming. I flew OK, and as I was at the time, it was more drifting around, not necessarily hovering.
After I was done, the lesson really began. He was watching me carefully, and seeing what I was doing... With his own experiences of learning still fresh in his head, he offered the following advice (to the best of my memory):
Your moving the cyclic far too much, you need to remember to make SMALL SMOOTH movements. It doesn't take much.
Your not waiting long enough for her to react, so you over compensate...small changes, and let her react.
When you relaxed a little you wer doing much better! Remember to be calm and just fly!
Keep in mind some changes will decrease lift, and you have to compensate.
Try and stay in one area, and if she gets away from you, reset and try again.
Your using the thumb only method...the problem with that is you can unintentionally cause inadvertant control movment on the rudder, etc.. Also might help to tighten up the rudder resistance.
Remember to be mindfull on WHERE you are looking to determine orientation and keep her level. Look at the tail in orientation to the head, is it higher or lower. Look through the gyro to the ground. Don't use the blades, as you can't tell position in certain orientations.
Then he armed me with a wonderfull little Zippy 2200mA Lipo! ooooh ahhhh She was a little more nose heavy, so I had to trim a few more clicks of aft elevator. WOW how she just jumped into the air...NICE! This run, I was doing my best to make minor changes. I had my first bouts of keeping her in an area for 5 or so seconds. When she drifted, I applied compensation, smaller than I was before...and MOST importantly...I WAITED LONGER. True to his observations, I was being impatient for reaction previously, which had led to over control. Now, I'd stop the drift quicker.. So I'd hold it for a few secs, drift 8 or so feet, hold...etc. I shut her down after 6 minutes... Nah man, she's got enough juice for another two minutes on a stock B400! So off I went! I was EXTREMELY happy to get this much flight time. Having one battery SUCKS, especially when I only get 5minutes after finally trimming her!
"Now I'm gonna proove to you how much the stock servo's suck" :P It was time for SoKal's B400 to fly. Wow did it sound impressive..and the servo movement was super quick and solid! Now seeing the videos DO NOT do these birds justice! This was my first time seeing a B400 really perform...it was IMPRESSIVE. I know mine is stock, but if it's anywhere near capable of all that...WOW, amazing. She raced up the sky, dove around flying increadibly fast. One time he swooped back near us and I jumped...scary! Rolls, inversions, loops, tick-tocks...he did them all. There was a tree, and some power lines that I swear he'd hit, but he piloted increadibly. I think I was most impressed when he'd be diving, getting increadible speed...pitch up quickly and mush into a hover right in front of us. Dayem! (Mine would undoubtedly keep going into terra firma). I suddenly felt cold...I realized just how far there is to go. As I gave praise for the wonderful show, he remained very modest, reminding me how much he himself has to learn. Well, modesty be damned, he's a master in my eyes.
Heli Aerodynamics & Wind:
With a few minutes left on the battery, he discussed some of the aerodynamics in more detail. He made effects of wind direction, relative to the heli quite clear, even demonstrating it. Pointing into the wind, the blades are attacking into it, and you get extra lift, and it goes up with little effort. From the rear, your gonna loose lift. (I understand it clearly, though I can't explain it very well). He also showed me the effect on body rotation versus the blade rotation...yawing right (tail left) moves the body with the blades, and they cross it more slowly, reducing lift. The opposite yaw, and she rotates faster over the body, increasing lift (Chime in if anything her is incorrect Sokal). The point to us noobs being this: You need to pay attention to wind direction, and flight physics, so you know WHEN you need to add a little throttle, when to take some away. Same goes for when you bank...the thrust providing lift is no longer straight down, but vectored at an angle, thus the downward magnitude supporting the weight of the heli is lower, thus you need a little more pitch or headspeed to remain at the same altitude.
The chinook was next up, but it would have to wait, as the batteries it needed were left at his house. So we headed back in earnest. Boy she didn't dissappoint! It was obvious, that this puppy must be a PITA to setup right! It was really cool to see how the collectives worked in tandem..sometimes being together for side to side motion, to being opposite for elevator control. Then you could yaw both heads mutually, or independently... I hope I remembered that right! (If not I'm sure Sokal will chime in and clear it up). It was all amazing to watch! Check out the VIDEO:
jGv6FRAQ1ro
Dunno why it's comping it so much, and something is wrong with the sound...I'll have to fix that...
Soon after, my little 1800 had recharged on his nice E-Flite balancing charger. Time for me to practice again under Sokal's watchful eyes behind the camera. I was more nervous being in a smaller back yard. Less room for mistakes...I HAD to keep her more confined. The first two hovers, I had to really get the aft movement back to normal, as it was trimmed for the 2200, that made it nose heavy.
fqXWWLqdLqY
It's still not letting me choose High Quality...Well for a much better quality vid, try: http://maggiecrowell.com/Brian/Videos/B400_Hovering.wmv (right click and save)
I was finally starting to get it. Sure I wasn't perfect...but the times where I'm keeping her still in one area, were increasing. I'm still over controlling at times (when she swings back and forth). Part of it was me being leary of surroundings, and trying to get away from them quickly. She was facing the wind, and I could feel it, but inadequately compensated for it at times! When the lady crossed the area I was feeling pretty good! Still, if only she new a newb pilot was at the helm, she'd have used the front door! I'm happy to have kept her in the air for 40s without setting down (the practice arms touched occasionally but I don't count that).
:thumbup:So in that, you heard some of the earlier tips revisited as well as a few new ones:
It's always better to land a little nose down, as it should help save the tail.
Remember to let it react, and then compensate for it.
If there is wind, remember to adapt and compensate for drift.
There are allot of variables down low to the ground, far less up several feet!
Reset and try again!
In all, it may not look much...but to me, it's been a dramatic improvement. I was doing my best to soak up SoKal's advice, and implement it. Sometimes I succeeded more than others. As I lamented on that run, it was time for SoKal to fly:
5BgbT7_iCEg
I did my best to film it with zoom, but it's so darn quick! Seeing the small area first hand, I don't know how he manages to fly it like that! From the building, to bushes, trees, and thin power lines...I'd hit one for sure!:(
By this time the sun was setting, and getting pretty nippy...fingers getting numb. We went inside, and let him fly the mCX. It's a fun little bird, and it took him no time to make some nice setting improvments (like setting expo to -20), which really helped it's reaction and sensitivity. We had fun flying it around, and while the goal was to convince the wife how cute and fun it ways, I think we only succeeded to anoy their Wii time. I DID however, learn another lesson...and here it is... DO NOT FLY YOUR mCX, and THEN practice hovering B400 (while your learning). :arggg:On the mCX you have to HOLD position for movement..on a CP, you have to slightly move, then return... My last flight of the day suffered due to this. It wasn't as good as earlier. Not to mention the nubs getting numb!
Alas all things must end, and I began packing up. :bawl :Stay I didn't want to delay any plans they had, so I hastely put everything in the car. Sokal graciously gave me a few parts & a good set of E-Flight woodies (heh heh, I said woodies). :rolling Unfortunetly, 10 min down the road, I realized I left my tool box. No big deal, then I remembered my charger was in it! DOH, I turned around, but alas they had left... Oh well, it'll be a FANTASTIC Excuse to come up again soon :)
Thanks again to Sokal & his family for the hospitality and support! :)Also thanks to Blade~400, Sly, Jasmine, Blademan, and everyone else who's unselfishly helped me out lately! I've learned allot, and hopefully those fellow newbies reading can gleam a few helpfull insights! I'll continue to take my time and get my hover and landings tighter! Weeee gotta love it! :woohoo
-Brian "Mr2MkII"
It's often tough to absorb the wealth of information within these forum walls. Even tougher to truely understand it to the level many of the board gurus have! :thinkingLike many newbies to this genre, the hover appears daunting, let alone the tricks posted in the videos. Such a seemingly simple task, has broken many a soul, and you find their 400 abandoned on EBAY. :hammer
The crash that incurred on my 3rd hover battery, wasn't about to disuade me. When I get into something, I commit..and I was making some progress! Though I really liked rebuilding her, I wanted to minimize the chance for another mishap. So what's one to do when there is a well known guru a mere 3 hours away! YOU GO! DUH! Of course, I'm talking about non other than SoKal himself. You know him, heck...close your eyes and I bet you can imagine the infamous back yard he miraculously manuevers in! Packed the B400, lots of parts, and of course the mCX for good measure.
The Arrival:
The weather was great! Sunny, slight breeze, a little chilly but no problem! When I arrived at 10:30AM, I approached the town homes from the rear and immediatly recognized it. :YeaBaby:After all, I've watched the vids as much as anyone! I nervously approached the door, knowing the schooling would soon begin.
Job, aka "SoKal", greating me warmly and I stepped inside the guru's domain. My jaw dropped:wow2:, as I first caught sight of the "TwinRexx," a chinook R/C heli (more on that later). Beside it, the B400, also immediatly recognizable. Like a toy master's shop, heli parts & frames were everywhere...all gathered around a PC that already had Phoenix running. He showed me the beautiful carbon fiber frame, with blue anodized aluminum parts...ooooh ahhhhh :drool: Then the super duty aluminum head/collective...*drool* We began the usuall chatter about the parts and "what next" on upgrades. Looking back, it was all kinda surreal to me.
I tried flying in Phoenix, and the graphics were nicer than G4, and the physics seemed smoother. Transitions seemed to react quickly, but not overly so. I had learned, from a video on you tube, to control the collective by short little blips...letting it return to nuetral. Soo the first lesson of the day began..."Don't blip it like that, you want to do SMOOTH and SMALL changes." I'd seen the vids from many a board member on just how SLIGHT it is, but with that technicque, it made that nearly impossible. :arggg:So for the remainder of the day, I would begin using that method. Keep solid on the sticks, and just make minor smooth movements.
Time to go fly:
We boxed up our gear, went to pick up his daughter, and off to the fields! We went to fly on base, one that had plenty of room. I had to improvise and build another set of practice skids...this time using the 1/8" metal rods. They were a bit longer than I wanted, but it worked and balanced fine. Sokal looked over my settings, and nodded they should be fine. At that point I didn't know if he'd want to hook up the DX6i's and use training mode, or fly mine first, or just have me fly. Sokal said "Alright, she's your bird, I'm not gonna fly it.." So off I went to embarrass myself. :oI don't know if I was more scared of crashing, or looking bad. The first few times I hopped, and had to get her trimmed better...as always that darn tail would need re-trimming. I flew OK, and as I was at the time, it was more drifting around, not necessarily hovering.
After I was done, the lesson really began. He was watching me carefully, and seeing what I was doing... With his own experiences of learning still fresh in his head, he offered the following advice (to the best of my memory):
Your moving the cyclic far too much, you need to remember to make SMALL SMOOTH movements. It doesn't take much.
Your not waiting long enough for her to react, so you over compensate...small changes, and let her react.
When you relaxed a little you wer doing much better! Remember to be calm and just fly!
Keep in mind some changes will decrease lift, and you have to compensate.
Try and stay in one area, and if she gets away from you, reset and try again.
Your using the thumb only method...the problem with that is you can unintentionally cause inadvertant control movment on the rudder, etc.. Also might help to tighten up the rudder resistance.
Remember to be mindfull on WHERE you are looking to determine orientation and keep her level. Look at the tail in orientation to the head, is it higher or lower. Look through the gyro to the ground. Don't use the blades, as you can't tell position in certain orientations.
Then he armed me with a wonderfull little Zippy 2200mA Lipo! ooooh ahhhh She was a little more nose heavy, so I had to trim a few more clicks of aft elevator. WOW how she just jumped into the air...NICE! This run, I was doing my best to make minor changes. I had my first bouts of keeping her in an area for 5 or so seconds. When she drifted, I applied compensation, smaller than I was before...and MOST importantly...I WAITED LONGER. True to his observations, I was being impatient for reaction previously, which had led to over control. Now, I'd stop the drift quicker.. So I'd hold it for a few secs, drift 8 or so feet, hold...etc. I shut her down after 6 minutes... Nah man, she's got enough juice for another two minutes on a stock B400! So off I went! I was EXTREMELY happy to get this much flight time. Having one battery SUCKS, especially when I only get 5minutes after finally trimming her!
"Now I'm gonna proove to you how much the stock servo's suck" :P It was time for SoKal's B400 to fly. Wow did it sound impressive..and the servo movement was super quick and solid! Now seeing the videos DO NOT do these birds justice! This was my first time seeing a B400 really perform...it was IMPRESSIVE. I know mine is stock, but if it's anywhere near capable of all that...WOW, amazing. She raced up the sky, dove around flying increadibly fast. One time he swooped back near us and I jumped...scary! Rolls, inversions, loops, tick-tocks...he did them all. There was a tree, and some power lines that I swear he'd hit, but he piloted increadibly. I think I was most impressed when he'd be diving, getting increadible speed...pitch up quickly and mush into a hover right in front of us. Dayem! (Mine would undoubtedly keep going into terra firma). I suddenly felt cold...I realized just how far there is to go. As I gave praise for the wonderful show, he remained very modest, reminding me how much he himself has to learn. Well, modesty be damned, he's a master in my eyes.
Heli Aerodynamics & Wind:
With a few minutes left on the battery, he discussed some of the aerodynamics in more detail. He made effects of wind direction, relative to the heli quite clear, even demonstrating it. Pointing into the wind, the blades are attacking into it, and you get extra lift, and it goes up with little effort. From the rear, your gonna loose lift. (I understand it clearly, though I can't explain it very well). He also showed me the effect on body rotation versus the blade rotation...yawing right (tail left) moves the body with the blades, and they cross it more slowly, reducing lift. The opposite yaw, and she rotates faster over the body, increasing lift (Chime in if anything her is incorrect Sokal). The point to us noobs being this: You need to pay attention to wind direction, and flight physics, so you know WHEN you need to add a little throttle, when to take some away. Same goes for when you bank...the thrust providing lift is no longer straight down, but vectored at an angle, thus the downward magnitude supporting the weight of the heli is lower, thus you need a little more pitch or headspeed to remain at the same altitude.
The chinook was next up, but it would have to wait, as the batteries it needed were left at his house. So we headed back in earnest. Boy she didn't dissappoint! It was obvious, that this puppy must be a PITA to setup right! It was really cool to see how the collectives worked in tandem..sometimes being together for side to side motion, to being opposite for elevator control. Then you could yaw both heads mutually, or independently... I hope I remembered that right! (If not I'm sure Sokal will chime in and clear it up). It was all amazing to watch! Check out the VIDEO:
jGv6FRAQ1ro
Dunno why it's comping it so much, and something is wrong with the sound...I'll have to fix that...
Soon after, my little 1800 had recharged on his nice E-Flite balancing charger. Time for me to practice again under Sokal's watchful eyes behind the camera. I was more nervous being in a smaller back yard. Less room for mistakes...I HAD to keep her more confined. The first two hovers, I had to really get the aft movement back to normal, as it was trimmed for the 2200, that made it nose heavy.
fqXWWLqdLqY
It's still not letting me choose High Quality...Well for a much better quality vid, try: http://maggiecrowell.com/Brian/Videos/B400_Hovering.wmv (right click and save)
I was finally starting to get it. Sure I wasn't perfect...but the times where I'm keeping her still in one area, were increasing. I'm still over controlling at times (when she swings back and forth). Part of it was me being leary of surroundings, and trying to get away from them quickly. She was facing the wind, and I could feel it, but inadequately compensated for it at times! When the lady crossed the area I was feeling pretty good! Still, if only she new a newb pilot was at the helm, she'd have used the front door! I'm happy to have kept her in the air for 40s without setting down (the practice arms touched occasionally but I don't count that).
:thumbup:So in that, you heard some of the earlier tips revisited as well as a few new ones:
It's always better to land a little nose down, as it should help save the tail.
Remember to let it react, and then compensate for it.
If there is wind, remember to adapt and compensate for drift.
There are allot of variables down low to the ground, far less up several feet!
Reset and try again!
In all, it may not look much...but to me, it's been a dramatic improvement. I was doing my best to soak up SoKal's advice, and implement it. Sometimes I succeeded more than others. As I lamented on that run, it was time for SoKal to fly:
5BgbT7_iCEg
I did my best to film it with zoom, but it's so darn quick! Seeing the small area first hand, I don't know how he manages to fly it like that! From the building, to bushes, trees, and thin power lines...I'd hit one for sure!:(
By this time the sun was setting, and getting pretty nippy...fingers getting numb. We went inside, and let him fly the mCX. It's a fun little bird, and it took him no time to make some nice setting improvments (like setting expo to -20), which really helped it's reaction and sensitivity. We had fun flying it around, and while the goal was to convince the wife how cute and fun it ways, I think we only succeeded to anoy their Wii time. I DID however, learn another lesson...and here it is... DO NOT FLY YOUR mCX, and THEN practice hovering B400 (while your learning). :arggg:On the mCX you have to HOLD position for movement..on a CP, you have to slightly move, then return... My last flight of the day suffered due to this. It wasn't as good as earlier. Not to mention the nubs getting numb!
Alas all things must end, and I began packing up. :bawl :Stay I didn't want to delay any plans they had, so I hastely put everything in the car. Sokal graciously gave me a few parts & a good set of E-Flight woodies (heh heh, I said woodies). :rolling Unfortunetly, 10 min down the road, I realized I left my tool box. No big deal, then I remembered my charger was in it! DOH, I turned around, but alas they had left... Oh well, it'll be a FANTASTIC Excuse to come up again soon :)
Thanks again to Sokal & his family for the hospitality and support! :)Also thanks to Blade~400, Sly, Jasmine, Blademan, and everyone else who's unselfishly helped me out lately! I've learned allot, and hopefully those fellow newbies reading can gleam a few helpfull insights! I'll continue to take my time and get my hover and landings tighter! Weeee gotta love it! :woohoo
-Brian "Mr2MkII"