Cypher 3D - Love this Heli!

[reelsteel]

crysis,
I was using the stock tail blades and stock wood mains. I am going to try the Honey Bee King II tail blades since I have an extra set laying around. I also ordered a set of CF mains from HobbyCity which seem to have good reviews. I guess we'll find out. Tired of replacing the mains after a minor crash. I was doing so well and now I am having a streak of bad luck!

[Olgierd]

It is like me. I made 9 flights on Saturday with TP 2250 30C and Zippy 2200mA 25C from HC. The flight time and performance for hovering and some circle practice is almost the same. Zippy battery was more then warm while TP was cool. I do not know how long Zippy will last in this condition, but it is worth consideration for us if we want to have more flight for less money.
Next day I had bad lucky and had my fist serious crash. I got strong wind during take off and I think was too slow to react, then my blade hit ground. We have to be more careful during take off in stronger wind – maybe we should push Cypher quicker to higher altitude where is more room to react for wind.

[blvdbuzzard]

Just when I think I know what I am doing, I find I don't.

I have found that after I watched the setup videos on the Trex, and I set up the Cypher the way it is explained in the video, I can do a rebuild pretty darn quick. Some times the radio setting don't even change.

The carbon blades have saved my a lot of head aches. If you cut power before you hit, they will take a heck of a hit. Full power into the ground, they may not make it.

If you know you are going in, cut power and hope. A low power hit will cause less damage. I landed on the side and only had a feathering shaft and fly bar. Not to bad. Next flight was not so good.

Dru.

[maddog57]

Dru, I've come to swear by the Finless set-up videos. I used the ones for the Logictec gyro set-up too. I found the same thing, most times after replacing parts, nothing has changed in the set-up. Plus the Cypher is soooo easy to work on. I've accumulated a good supply of spare parts too.

Does anybody know what type[s] of lube and the right way to apply it to our bearings? Mainly the main shaft, swash plate and tail shaft bearings. Maybe some don't get lubed at all? What do you guys do? This is a subject I don't see anyone posting about. :dontknow

thanks, Chris

[crysis]

maddog ive use trinity oil. the ones used for rc car pretty expensive thou 10 buck a pretty small bottle. the oils use in hi temp and hi rpm ,used on bearings and very hi quality the pro racers used them.. ive used to race electric and gas for acouple years untill the recession . now just flying around no need to pay big bucks every weekends all day at the track. any way the oil seems too be great on all the bearings just one drop will do it for a couple flights. keeping ur bearings lubed is also important.. and dont forget the motor bearings! oh and yes i also used them on the main shaft and swash and all moving parts including the tail shaft< but try not to get them on screws.

flying is fun! love this heli my best buy for a heli ,

[reelsteel]

How do you guys recenter your flybar and flybar arms when replacing?

[Ah Clem]

Trinity oil would be excellent for the bearings, as would TriFlow.

[maddog57]

Thanks for the advice on bearing lube. I'm used to dealing with different types of bearings [ball, roller, needle bearings, etc.] and "usually" they're packed with grease. I know you can't grease the sheilded main and tail shaft bearings, what about the one-way [autorotation] bearing, it looks like it should be greased and not oiled [it's a roller type]. Am I thinking right here or is it oiled as well? Seems hard to apply oil to it bacause the tail belt pulley is on top of it and the lower main shaft bearing is right below it. Would you not pack it with some type of grease when installing?

Chris

[Cryptovariable]

Hi guys.

I did a some research last week while buying hobby stuff and went with this brand of lubricant for my Cypher's bearings and such:

Premium
http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/items.cfm/PremiumHob-E-Lube

and

Standard
http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/items.cfm/StandardHob-E-Lube



More specifically, I bought:

HL657 - White Grease ( White Grease, Woodland Scenics, WDS657 (http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=20014002) ) $3.89
With Teflon, is a non-staining, clean lubricant with the super-slippery properties of Teflon, is waterproof and protects against corrosion. Great for RC car and boat shafts, gears, axles and joints.

and

HL662 - Lite Oil Premium Hob-E-Lube ( Premium Lite Oil, Woodland Scenics, WDS662 (http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=5001) ) $5.99
Will not harm plastic or paint. Long metal needle applicator gets into hidden areas. Multi-viscosity additives for trouble free operation, even at extreme temperatures. For precision mechanisms where a lightweight oil is required.



I bought from http://www.wholesaletrains.com/ which had great deals on everything I was looking for (don't let the name fool you, they have helicopter stuff).

They even have Spektrum t-shirts for $7.98, so I had to have one! ;) ( http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=200809160 )

Hope this helps...

[Ah Clem]

Ramp-roller clutches should be lubed with light oil-never greased.

Triflow works well here.

As a side note, there have been issues with the auto clutch on the Cypher hanging up (at least two that I know of).

[blvdbuzzard]

When I have to change out the fly bar I use a digital caliper to get it as close as I can. Then I adjust them to be level. For the most part I eye ball the level part with the paddles as a guide.

For the one way clutch / torrington bearing I use sewing machine oil or air tool oil. For the tail slider and swash plate I use silicon. I use the same silicon to lube the belt. You can use the air tool oil for the swash to, but I think it picks up more dirt then the silicon.

I think I could do a rebuild on the Cypher faster then replacing the main shaft on a Rex.

I just received my Hobby People flyer. They have the 94091 servos on sale for $13.99. Glad I bought (6) of them when they were $11.99
Dru.

[maddog57]

Guys... thanks to all who gave advice on lubrication. The reason I asked is that I replaced my one-way bearing because while doing post flight checks I found the one-way had bad spots. While turning the head by hand, it would hit the bad spot and stick, then with a slight jarring of the head it would break loose, spin free again, them catch again. So when I changed it out, I used a small amount of white lithium grease as lube. Seems to be working well so far. Guess I should take your advice and oil it next time?

Crypto, thanks for the links for the different lubes. What will you use the white grease for on your Cypher?

Dru, I bought the 94091 servos last time they were on sale for $10.99. I got four of 'em and one of my daughters got me four for my b-day last month. Have one set in my #2 Cypher [still in the set-up stages] and I'll use the others when the Hitec 65's go bad [go bad? these things are like a tank!!!!] on my #1 Cypher.

I center the flybar pretty much the same as Dru said. It would be nice if they'd put flat spots on the bar for the carrier and control arms set screws. That would automatically give us a centered starting point. Plus it would be easier to get the control arms level. Just my opinion. :thumbup:

Chris

[blvdbuzzard]

HS65's going bad? NOT!!! If you put it on the nose of a plane and then dive it into the ground, it may make them go bad. They are great servos.

I agree with the flat spots. makes things easy.

Dru.

[heli-c]

Carl, those blades look really nice, let us know how they fly.

My CF 325 main blades mini review posted here (http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=1272110&postcount=159).

Hey Vechlor - excuse the delayed response :oops:...anyway these fly really nice, track very crisply and to my ears run a little quieter than the stock wood blades (which in themselves fly really nicely, provided the covering is shrunk good and tight). I don't have a tacho so I'm not exactly sure of the headspeed, but despite being 10mm longer than stock there doesn't seem to be any loss in this department...if anything they seem faster!

I must say I now agree 100% with everyone here who said the carbons would transform the way the heli feels...it amazed me the first time I flew them; almost felt like a different heli. Much more responsive - so much so that I had to dial in more expo to keep things under control, a bit more 'floaty' in the wind and far more visible in flight...highly recommended!

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97112&stc=1&d=1242402587

'Have to say a big thanks to all for the recent lube & setup tips - I'm about to do a major rebuild this weekend so all this info is really handy :thumbup:

Cheers

Carl

[Vechlor]

Carl, good to hear back from you, I'm glad they work really well on your heli! I noticed a big difference too with cf blades, quieter, quicker and more responsiveness.

As for lube, I've been using tri-flow as well for many years, good stuff!

Dru. When those HP sales ever come back, I have a friend who is interested in helis! :):):)

Have a good weekend, fly safe!

[crysis]

well guys u got me sold....! on them cf blades. gonna put my order in this week end:thumbup: . guys any news on upgrades for the cypher? ( any new part release yet).:dontknow
well enjoy ur week. gotta fly.

[reelsteel]

I second the flat spots on the flybar. My Mini Titan SE has them. Makes it real easy to center the flybar.

Anybody burn up the stock motor yet? Mine just started to jitter and not spin up. Sometimes it starts but its not safe to fly that way. Its not the ESC, I swapped it with another I had on hand. Tried a different motor and that works also. When it won't spin up the ESC just beeps once as you go to full throttle.

[maddog57]

I've been fighting two problems on my Cypher.A very slight tail wag and a slight vibration. Tail wag was due to a minimal bind of the tail control arm assy. on the shaft, having a tight spot just about center. Bit of cleaning of the tail rotor shaft and a good lubing took care of that problem.

The vibration I now think is the motor bearings. During todays flying, I started to hear a high pitched squeeling sound. The heli still flew great, but I'm thinking it's the motor cuz I've replaced the main shaft and auto-rotation bearings [trying to get rid of the vibration] and all that's left is the motor. Checked the swash, seems good.I cleaned and lubed everything [I haven't been good about lubing, that's changed as of now]. So... I haven't burned the motor out, but think the bearings are bad fron not lubing regularly. It's storming here now, so I'll change out the motor and see if that cures the noise and vibration. Anybody have any thoughts, comments?

Chris

[Ah Clem]

Changing the motor will probably cure the squeak, but it probably is not the source of the vibration.

If the vibration is at a relatively high frequency, make sure the tail blades are balanced and the tail shaft is straight. If the vibration is at a lower frequency (i.e. at about the head RPM), make sure the main blades are balanced (flybar, etc.).

[maddog57]

Ah Clem, thanks for the input. Do you balance the tail blades the same way you do mains? They're so small that it seems it'd be hard to do. I do need to put a fresh set of tail blades on. They've gotten a bit knarly around the edges from my "learning to fly process". I'll try replacing the tails as well as the motor and see if that helps.

As I'm still learning to fly these crazy things, I'm still using the training gear :o [you can laugh, it's OK, but they're coming off very soon]. Anyway... the vibration first hits when spooling up. At app. 1/4 stick, the heli will give a hop as the mains increase speed then settles out pretty quick [the mains are already fully extended before the hop occurs] Then when in the air you can see the vibration transfer thru to the training balls. It's a very minimal, but there and I don't like it.

I'll look at what you've suggested and go from there.
thanks, Chris :thumbup:

[Ah Clem]

The training gear/balls will tend to exaggerate and amplify any vibration.

There are various blade balancers available which should work for the tail blades. I would replace them if they are at all damaged (KBDD or Align blades-preferably KBDD, of course).

The main blades should be CG corrected and weighed on a gram scale, if possible.

Are you running wood or CF blades? CF blades tend to be balanced better from the factory.

[maddog57]

I'm, currently running Align 325 carbons. Just put them on a few flight sessions ago. They track spot on outta the package, but haven't balanced them yet. Much better than the stock woods, though they perform very well in their own right!

Where can I get the KBDD's you refer to? And what size fits our Cyphers?
Chris

[Ah Clem]

I thought you'd never ask...

http://www.kbddintl.com/distributors.html

[crysis]

mad dog its very important and a good practice to balance ur bblade regurdless cf or wood or of any kind, this should help reduce those vibrations on the head. and give beter more improved stable flights then do ur tracking after balancing them. one most import thing for helis are well balance blade.:thumbup:

[blvdbuzzard]

With training gear, just the air moving over the plastic balls can cause a vibration. As soon as you can drop the training gear. Besides the weight, it does other dynamic things to the helicopter.

Most people use the gear far longer then they need to. I will put money that you use the training gear more for orientation then for landing and to keep it from tipping over.

Balance every blade you have. I have balanced the tail blades. I did the blades, grips and hub as a unit. A very small weight difference can make a big vibe.

I bought a handful of tail blades for my HKBII and they are the same size. They are good enough for now. I will be going carbon soon. If they fly as much better as the carbon mains do, I will be real happy.

The best thing you can do is balance everything. Also check to see if the main shaft is straight, low freq vibration and to check to see if the tail shaft is straight, high freq vibration.


Dru.