Cypher 3D - Love this Heli!

[maddog57]

Guys it's happening even earlier than I predicted !! This a.m. it was at $11, now it's at $100. Amazing, but I guess not surprising. I hope it's one of you guys {or me for that matter :lol: } that ends up with this Cypher.

Chris :thumbup:

[Vechlor]

This has been an interesting week with lots of exciting news. :happyd

Good to hear the case will fit! Thanks Ah Chem and MadDog57.

Here's a post about the new black 2100t gyro, seems a few things were improved. Would like to know how it compares to the silver model in flight.

My buddy got all his gear from HP, radio, servos etc. The Thunder ac6 (http://www.xheli.com/thac6bachwac.html) charger from xheli.com and 2200mah batts from batterycole.com. I bought a cypher for my bro, but it turns out he got one too! I guess I'll use the extra cypher for parts, he probably will need it :roll:............................................ ......:bawl

[blvdbuzzard]

I was hoping to get some flights in. The wind is blowing at almost 45mph, over cast and cold for this time of year. It is 46 degrees out side right now. No way to put this little guy in the air.


Dru.

[Olgierd]

I was with my Cypher in MHA 2009 Fun Fly 5-7 June 9, 2009 http://www.helifreak.com/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=140&day=2009-6-7&c=1
There were more then 150 registered pilots and one with Cypher :banana. We had very nice weather on Saturday and Sunday ;). I was mastering my circles in dedicated field for novice. I did 20 flights and took part in competition for novices. Unfortunately I did not win:bawl. Winner in the end crash his t-rex 450.

It was very good time to hang around and see what people can do with their helicopters including crashes. The most popular helicopters was T-Rex 600 and 700 and JR. The weather was so calm – no wind at all, that I has perfect condition to make my loop very smooth. Now I see I set up my heli right. I corrected my sub trim, gain; It even hangs for while without any collective stick input. ;)

[blvdbuzzard]

Olgierd, so you were the STAND out pilot of the weekend !!!!! the only Cypher. Did people ask about it? tell you you should get a Rex clone? Like the way it flies?

You did well at the fun fly.


Dru

[phatfiddy]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280356378098

Had to relist.. the buyer was located in Ukraine!! I only do shipping to US.. so here you go guys.. you all know how much is in this heli..

[Olgierd]

Some people know our Cypher form ads. Nobody had one. One guy with T-Rex 450 admired head design. :thumbup: I met very good pilot with new Hirobo SDX .50 SWM – this machine is incredible, how its fly. He told me that all T-REXs have old head design. I showed him my Cypher and he was quite please of how gently and smooth flybar swing. We need to resizing some control rod ends to get into this stage. ;)
I told him that many people thinks I should got to T-REX 450. He was laughing and told that Align in the end is quit expensive because the poor quality of parts, which run out quit quickly. There are many good heli out there, which are not come from Align.

[Ah Clem]

The basic head design on the Cypher predates the existance of the T-Rex by at least 25 years. It goes back to the Kalt designs of the early 1980's (albeit with a push rod up the main shaft to move the collective). More recently Hirobo has used it (they also used the older Kavan design).

It is a good, solid design. Very responsive without being overly sensitive.

The Kavan head was similar, except that the mixing arms were pivoted toward the main rotor shaft as opposed to being pivoted closer to the paddles (somewhat hard to describe). The earliest Kavan heads did not have flybars that could be feathered to effect Hiller induced cyclic changes. I believe there were weights on the end of the flybar first, then paddle shaped weights, then (after Schluter's success with Bell/Hiller mixing) the paddles were made to feather with cyclic.

The T-Rex head design is not quite as old, but dates back to the mid-1980's also. I first saw it on the Shuttle (I believe Mr. Taya designed it). It appeared on the Raptor (also a Taya design, I think) with an over slung flybar. When it appeared on the TREX, the under slung flybar of the Shuttle re-appeared (some variants of the Shuttle may have had overslung flybars, the ZXX that I have has an under slung one)

The first T-Rex's were quite similar to the Raptors, including the aileron servo being mounted in a moving tray/arm which moved the collective.

The design of the head on the Vibe .50 first appeared on the Schluter Heliboy around 1978. It has been used on many different machines since. Like the Kalt, it had a pushrod up the main shaft to activate collective. It was composed of many pieces, including machined parts and stampings.

Variations on details, such as material used, cages vs. individual arms to feather the flybar paddles, mixing ratios, leading vs. trailing link attachment of the blade arms, over slung vs. under slung flybar, etc. vary from brand to brand and model to model.

There are probably only five or six head designs used on model helicopters today.

[maddog57]

Phatfiddy, the link comes up as listing unavailable. Tried searching Cypher and couldn't find it.

Chris:thumbup:

[phatfiddy]

whoops! lol here we go!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280356571027

[maddog57]

Thanks !!

Chris:thumbup:

[heli-c]

"The basic head design on the Cypher predates the existance of the T-Rex by at least 25 years. It goes back to the Kalt designs of the early 1980's (albeit with a push rod up the main shaft to move the collective). More recently Hirobo has used it (they also used the older Kavan design).

It is a good, solid design. Very responsive without being overly sensitive.

Variations on details, such as material used, cages vs. individual arms to feather the flybar paddles, mixing ratios, leading vs. trailing link attachment of the blade arms, over slung vs. under slung flybar, etc. vary from brand to brand and model to model.

There are probably only five or six head designs used on model helicopters today." (Abbreviated)

After reading this post I've been looking more closely at the head of my Cypher, and comparing it to my other model, a Blade 400. The B400 head design is very similar to the T-Rex 450 (Taya) and has a higher part count than the Cypher (Kalt). In my experience the B400 head requires more setup and tends to go 'out of track' a lot faster than the Cypher; maybe this is down to materials, but is it do with the higher part count - maybe there are more areas where slop/ vibrations can develop?

With regard to mixing ratios, has anyone tried using the second hole on the lower flybar mixer arm? I didn't even notice it until reading Ah Clem's post and looking at how the mixing ratio's are set on different helicopters...

Who would have thought...the JR Vibe's head design is some 30 years old!

[maddog57]

Guys, wondering if you'll help me out and take a few minutes to read thru a short, 2 page thread here on the Freak.

Throttle Curve - HeliFreak


I tried what these guys are saying with disasterous results. Have a major rebuild to do. After I changed my Cyphers throttle curve for normal mode, tried to fly her, just as it was about to lift off ,all of a sudden it leaned over to the right and into the dirt went the mains and all hell broke loose. About cut the tail boom in two! It is possible that I was giving cyclic input and not realizing it, cuz the head speed was screaming at 80% throttle and had me kinda scared, lol. But what they said about maintaining a higher, constant HS throughout the stick settings made sense to me. Any thoughts, opinions, whatever will be truely helpful.

Chris:thumbup:

[blvdbuzzard]

Chris, I do not switch into idle up on the ground. To scary for me. I lift off in normal mode and then switch into idle up in the air, then I switch back to normal mode to land.

What are your normal mode and idle up curves?

My idle up curves are 100-90-80-90-100. So full stick is 100 and center stick is 80

It could have been just ground resonance that tipped the helicopter. A little cyclic and thats all it would take and she is in the dirt.

Sorry to hear about your crash.


Dru.

[maddog57]

Dru, thanks for you time. I didn't go into idle up. the changes in throttle curve were done in normal. I think the theory being HS should be high and constant thru the stick range. Suposed to be easier to learn hover and basic moves varying only pitch. Makes sence to me, but hey, I'm new. No more experimenting while in new-b phase !!!!:arggg:

I went to 0 80 80 80 80 with pitch at -2 +1 +4 +7 +10. I'm sure I must've put right cyclic in, not knowing cuz of the pucker factor of 80% throttle lol. Or coulda been that resonance thing you said ! lol

Now I'm back to my normal throttle of 0 40 55 65 75 , pitch at -2 +1 +4 +7 +10 and the Cypher hovers real nice again. I do have idle up settings of throttle 90 90 80 90 90 , piitch -10 to +10, 0 at center. Haven't had the nuts to go into idle up yet though.

Chris:thumbup:

[blvdbuzzard]

I would make the throttle up too 100% at full stick, 75-80 at 3/4 stick, hovering area, and 50-60 at center stick.

I would also say to have -4, -2, 0, +6, +11 Pitch curve. that gives you a little POP to climb out and a good hover. You need a little negative to get it down when the wind blows. Not enough negative, it will float like a balloon. I also have 30% EXPO dialed in to calm the center stick a little.

Just the way I have mine setup.


Dru.

[WillJames]

A guy flew a Cypher in the drag races at the OCMA event last Saturday and it did amazingly well.:thumbup:

[Olgierd]

Hi,
I few my Cypher with 14T and 15T pinion. With 14T we have like 40-60sconds longer flight. She hovers fine but has wagging tendency and is less agile. I did more then 40 flights with stock pinion 15T and I think it is right setup for our Cypher.
For long time I was only hovering 15T pinion on normal mode 0-52-70-80-inh-100% and expo on my 9303. I started switching to idle up mode throttle curve 100-inh-inh-80-inh-inh-100 with expo. When I switched into idle up in the air I discovered drop of head speed. The difference was like 3% in center stick because what expo does for convex and concave curve. This 3% was really noticeable.
I think we should have throttle curve in idle up like 100-inh-inh-80-inh-inh-100. In order to slow down agility in hovering 30- 35% expo really helps.

[Olgierd]

Chris,
I had exactly the same thinks more then month ago :arggg:. My Cypher leaned over to the right, I cut blades and many thinks in head including main shaft, mixing arms and auto-rotation drive sleeve gone.
I discovered that before take off I have tendency to move right stick to some position. I do not see on the ground reaction of heli then I unconsciously move cyclic stick somewhere.
Now, I trying to lift off little quicker and I always check my right hand. :thumbup:

[parpar1]

A guy flew a Cypher in the drag races at the OCMA event last Saturday and it did amazingly well.:thumbup:

Did you see the Cypher Pro while you were there? THe guy said parts will be available soon so we can upgrade.

It was amazing what some of those guys can do with a helicopter.

[maddog57]

WillJames / ParPar1, is there any video from the OCMA? I'd love to see the drags !!!!

Chris:thumbup:

[Olgierd]

Take a look at YouTube - Cypher 3D RC helicopter .
He is peaty good. :thumbup:

[heli-c]

Take a look at YouTube - Cypher 3D RC helicopter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HzTA8yP5I8) .
He is peaty good. :thumbup:

Nice vid Olgierd! I didn't realize it was possible to fly 450's so far away...I can hardly see it in a few places never mind what orientation it was at - surprised me a few times, especially when it came in inverted :oops: must be that Zen flying I heard about recently...

Does anyone know how to do the tail conversion mentioned? The B400 tail pitch slider is ball-linked and the Cypher's isn't...

Carl

[parpar1]

WillJames / ParPar1, is there any video from the OCMA? I'd love to see the drags !!!!

Chris:thumbup:

Go over to the "local club discussions" and look at the last few pages, lots of photos and some links from the Funfly.

HeliFreak (http://www.helifreak.com/index.php) > R/C Helicopters (http://www.helifreak.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3) > Local Club Discussions (http://www.helifreak.com/forumdisplay.php?f=79)

[maddog57]

I would make the throttle up too 100% at full stick, 75-80 at 3/4 stick, hovering area, and 50-60 at center stick.

I would also say to have -4, -2, 0, +6, +11 Pitch curve. that gives you a little POP to climb out and a good hover. You need a little negative to get it down when the wind blows. Not enough negative, it will float like a balloon. I also have 30% EXPO dialed in to calm the center stick a little.

Just the way I have mine setup.


Dru.


Dru, I tried these curves you suggested today. BIG improvement over what I had. Hovers even better now. I also raised the expo from 20% to 30% and that helped tons. Thank you so much. Any other tips you have you can throw my way too !

Olgierd, appreciate your input also. Yeah, I also need to work on lifting off a little more aggressively. May have been a contributing factor in my last crash. Gotta watch that right thumb too !! Cool Cypher vid. Some day I'll be able to fly like that !!!!

ParPar1, I'll check out the thread for pics of the OCMA. Thanks man.

Thanks again fellas,
Chris:thumbup: