Cypher 3D - Love this Heli!

[blvdbuzzard]

Globs, that does not sound good. Have you tried to mount them in a different location? I have mine mounted in the back with the heat sink in the draft of the blades.

It almost sounds like they had a bad run on the ESC's. Wonder if they are going to sell the Cypher in a bare bones or maybe a full kit? I would love to get a full kit, I could assembly it from the ground up knowing I pout it together the correct way with loctitie and ca where they are needed. Check the fit of all the brass bushings and so on.


Dru.

[maddog57]

This past Sat. I flew both my Cyphers. Here was the result...


Both crashes were the result of mechanical failure. #2 Cypher had a bad pitch servo that I must've missed when repairing from the lost tail hub set screw incident. Lifted off just to have it roll to the right and into the ground, from about 2ft up. Main shaft, flybar and the bad servo.
#1 Cypher was great for 4 packs. About 2 min into the 5th pack, had it sitting in a near perfect hover at 6ft, when the poor girl just EXPLODED !!!! Sounded like a small cal. rifle went off. Of course then it went into the ground. Thought the batt blew up at first. Walked to it to find the tail boom had been sheared off flush with the boom block. The belt has a clean break, so did the belt snap and break the boom off? That's my thinking. All the other damage was done on impact with the ground. Man wish I could've had this one on video to post... these pics are all I have. Just wanted to share with everybody.

Chris :thumbup:

[maddog57]

Globs I hope there wasn't allot of heli damage done when those cut-outs happened. I haven't had a problem with either of mine... yet! Like Dru, mine are mounted under the rear skid frame getting air. So does this mean we shouldn't buy stock ESCs and start using something different?

Chris :thumbup:

[Ah Clem]

Mine acted like it was cutting out while hovering. As it turns out, I had made some changes and had not yet strapped the motor/ESC wires down. They flapped and the motor cut out.

I strapped them down and the motor stopped cutting out.

I did, by the way, cut cooling holes in the canopy-a round one on the top, just above the heat sink and a larger one down below in the same area as the cooling hole in a Trex 450 canopy.

I also did not put the velcro strap over the heat sink (I think it shows this in the instructions).

[Globs]

blvdbuzzard: The esc was mounted in the same place as my good one, no covering straps etc - the conditions were identical.

maddog57 - Sorry to hear about your crashes. My crashes have been 1 pilot error, 1 swash ball no-locktite and 1 cracked flybar mixer letting go. I hope you pin down the reason for yours.

When the ESCs failed luckily they were only 1-2feet from the ground onto training gear onto soft grass, so no crashes from them. Lucky I was just trimming out really!

Ah Clem - The motor wires were sound, also the ESC/battery wires all held by the velcro strap, also the ESC re-start tones sounded, indicating a reset.

The first dud is going to be sent back to Ripmax so they can test it, the 'plan b' is to buy some H50a controllers from HiModel - these babys are 50A + 3A bec and barely break a sweat in my (heavier) 450se..

[blvdbuzzard]

Chris the carnage master :):)

I had a crash close to the way yours look. I had a link on the head fail and the main blade went through the boom and belt like a lazer beam. Almost no dent and a clean cut. Could the main blade have done it? Not sure if the belt letting go would break the boom like that. Looks like you played gyro golf also. Was the gyro damaged?

My worst day ever was total carnage. I had 9 planes at the field. I got 11 flights. I lost every plane that day. I had a mid air, flew one and it was taken out in the pits, wing failed, stuck in a spin, fuse floor failed and the battery fell out, servo died and so on. I filled both trash cans with balsa scraps.

Globs, I had an issue with a ESC that was sort of cutting out but would power up again. It was not getting hot though. The BEC could not keep up so it just shut down. If all else fails a 50 amp ESC is the way to go.


Dru.

[maddog57]

Yeah, I am the "master of disaster" when it comes to the crash, LOL !! Dru, not sure exactly what took the boom off. That's the thing with me, it happens sooooo fast it's hard to tell. The boom is clean as a whistle, no dents, dings or anything except the break. Have it all back together today and in the air. The gyro seems fine, rock steady as always. Was worried about that, whew !!! Had a BIG list of parts that needed replacing. Thanks to my "stock pile" of spares we're good to go

Globs, If I lose one of my ESC's, I have an Align 35A, one that I used briefly in my Exceed raptor G2 [along with Align 430L motor], that I'd put in. Hope Ripmax will take care of the problem for you. Actually it's amazing these ESC's can take the heat they generate. They actually get pretty hot, even with heat shrink cut away and mounted in the open. Seem to work real well though.

Got the latest newsletter from Ron's HeliProz South today. He now has a deal that if you buy a heli kit from him, he'll give you 10% off crash parts and upgrades FOR LIFE !! Haven't checked the details of it yet, but sounds like a good deal.

Chris :thumbup:

[Globs]

not sure exactly what took the boom off. That's the thing with me, it happens sooooo fast it's hard to tell. The boom is clean as a whistle, no dents, dings or anything except the break.

Maybe it was metal fatigue?
A skilled metallurgist with a microscope could tell, but there is never one of those around when you need one ;)

[warbirdnut]

Dru, not sure exactly what took the boom off. That's the thing with me, it happens sooooo fast it's hard to tell. The boom is clean as a whistle, no dents, dings or anything except the break.


Have it all back together today and in the air. The gyro seems fine, rock steady as always. Was worried about that, whew !!! Had a BIG list of parts that needed replacing. Thanks to my "stock pile" of spares we're good to go


Sorry to hear about the crashes and glad to hear you are back up and running again..

I'd guess that the sheering force generated by the full power torque when the belt failed and therefore the tail rotor stopped doing it's job so abruptly. Like holding a long stiff branch and suddenly swinging it from one end--snap! Possible fatigue? Too tight?

Wonder why the belt failed? How many flights did she have?

Jim

[parpar1]

Long time no post. Still flying the Cypher. No probs. Finally upgraded to 2.4. darn nice not having to worry about people being on my channel any more.

Been flying the good old P47 thunderbolt mostly though.

I still have yet to see anyone selling the Cypher pro. saw one at the OCMA Heli fun fly and that was it.

Cant beleive this thread is still going strong and growing. :noteworthy

Best wishes.

[maddog57]

Jim, you could be right on any of your possibles except for tension. I always run my belts on the loose side and treat them with silicone spray. I think the force of the belt took the boom out, myself. Wish I had it on video :arggg: !! Trying to remember, the boom just flew from the body with a loud pop like it was fired from a rifle barrel. Don't remember seeing a main blade come off and hit the boom. Think about it... that belt really has to be spinning at 3/4 throttle [90%]. The boom isn't very heavy duty IMO. Guess it really doesn't matter. Sure was cool to see though. All is well now and have flown her twice since... I Love my Cyphers !!!!

ParPar 1 good to hear from ya, it's been a while. Glad your Cypher is flying. 2.4 is the only way to go. What did you get for a TX / RX ? Check in more often, man !!

Chris :thumbup:

[warbirdnut]

Actually I meant tight on the boom mount.. I seem to remember Finless saying something about not making that too tight because it could cause the boom to crease and weaken... Not sure though..

--------------------------

I'm wondering how much flight time and what kinds of batteries folks are using.... I'm running a 2200 cheapo from Nitro planes and just ordered two flight max 2200... I'm currently getting about 6 minutes with training gear and a reduced throttle..

The level mount limits the length of the pack which also seems to limit pack options... In the future I hope to do some FPV and so I would like a longer flight time.. I am planning on attaching two deans connectors for use with two packs in parallel...

So has anyone played with larger packs or more than one pack or different sized packs for optimizing flight times?

Jim

[Ah Clem]

I am getting 4 minutes on Impulse 2500 Mah, 3S batteries.

They get too hot if I go for five minutes.

[warbirdnut]

Wow only 4 minutes..

If I run mine WOT until empty this battery only gets very warm... From what I've read packs should be very warm when discharging for good efficiency... Hard to tell how hot is too hot...

The cypher seems to have more power than most 400 class or even 450 class helis.. So I'm thinking a larger pack seems in order or two.. As a test I am going to try two 2200s and see how long and how well she flies....

Jim

[Globs]

Flight times?
I can get 10.5 minutes with mine (until the HobbyKing battery alarm bleeps red) just hovering about in the garden.

Training gear would reduce that I reckon.
I have deal extreme CF blades on head and tail, headspeed is a shade over 2200rpm.

I use cheap old Mystery 2200mAh 25C batteries, balance charged at 1.5A on an Accucell 6 charger. Each battery has now done about 40-50 flights.

[blvdbuzzard]

I too am close to 10 plus minutes of flips and hovering. I have cheap red label HC batteries.

Are you using stock woodies or carbons?


Dru.

[warbirdnut]

Are you using stock woodies or carbons?



Not sure if this was addressed to me...

I'm all stock...

I'll have to time her again with one pack.. Wow 10 minutes is good!

I don't know how much my diy training gear weighs, (2x3/8"x36" wood dowels + hub) so when I take them off I'll have to recheck the flight time..

Jim

[blvdbuzzard]

I was not directly directing to any one :), just a question about blades. The carbons are a lot more efficient then woodies so you can gain flight time by using them. They usually have a better airfoil and generally fly better.


I pretty much fly until I notice a power drop. That is just before the BEC kicks in.


Dru.

P.S. Wind helps a little too

[maddog57]

I'm running CellPro 2200mah 3s 25c and get 6 min flights, leaving them with a 15% of charge left. I'm going to order a few Zippys, they're 1/3 the price of the CellPros.

Chris :thumbup:

[warbirdnut]

I'm running CellPro 2200mah 3s 25c and get 6 min flights, leaving them with a 15% of charge left. I'm going to order a few Zippys, they're 1/3 the price of the CellPros.

Chris :thumbup:
Yeah what's with the extreme cost difference among brands? Some packs can go for $20-$25 and run great..

Then you have these $120+ packs?:smokin: For that much money they should change the oil and wash the windows.. :roll:

[warbirdnut]

I have cheap red label HC batteries.


Sorry... What kind are these?

Anyone getting over 10 minutes--what's your pack?

[maddog57]

Yeah what's with the extreme cost difference among brands? Some packs can go for $20-$25 and run great..

Then you have these $120+ packs?:smokin: For that much money they should change the oil and wash the windows.. :roll:


Not having been a heli boy for long, I haven't tried many other brands, so don't know of the quality differences, if one brands gets more cycles than others, etc., etc. ... The CellPros are very high in quality and preformance. Wish I'd have kept records on each of the six I use, from now on I will. I've been using them for two flying seasons now and have only lost one to puffing, and think that was my fault for running them down too far. Soooo... is it " ya get what ya pay for"? Paying extra for the brand name? :dontknow

Chris :thumbup:

[blvdbuzzard]

The batteries are the first lipos I ever bought. They are 3s 2200 mah lipos. They have red heat shrink around them and I bought them from Hobby City so I called them Cheap red label HC batteries. They were $20.00 each when the ones at teh LHS and mail order were around $100.00 each. Figured I could not go to wrong with them. I have no idea how many cycles are on them. I use them in my helicopters and planes. I have over 2 years on them so I think I have cycled them more then I want to know.

I have a bunch of the Rino and Zippy batteries from HC. I have around 30 cycles on (2) 610 mah Rino's and they are going strong. I also have (5) of the Zippy 500 mah batteries, have yet to get them in the air. I have (8) of the 2650 mah lipos. I use them in my Maggie. I use (2) of the batteries in series to power it. It is a 40 sized foam plane I use for glider towing. No I am not good at it yet.

So far all of the batteries I have ordered from HC have been great.

I figure if I loose one battery out of an order, it is still cheaper then getting them from the LHS. I have or had (4) Electryfly batteries and 2 have burned or puffed. The cost is about twice that of a similar HC battery.


Dru.

P.S. Sicker then a half dead dog. I have a serious case of the horrible terribles. HACK COUGH SNEEZE!!!! :(

[Globs]

My cheap Mystery Lipos are the first and only ones bought too - I have 4 of them and my total lipo budget has been under £60. They are 25C rated however so do not get a stressed as the much poorer 20C pack. I mark each pack when it is used with a permanent pen - they each have around 40 flights on them.

I reckon that the modern-ness of the electrolyte is key to quality, as they makers are improving it all the time. Therefore I think a cheap modern one will always outperform an expensive old one.

Try to look for the cheap 5C charge ones now, as this formula is much better - a jump ahead of the old formulations - I'll aim for this with any future buys.

If the pitch is set up well, the bearings free and oiled and everything meshes comfortably you should be on for a good flight time, plus carbons and woodies are lightweight and weight = power on a helicopter.

[warbirdnut]

I just realized that I can't hover nose in... :arggg: And yet in Real Flight I can do that and more... :thinking It's a really strange thing about this hobby... Exactly the same mechanics yet it falls apart under pressure to such an extreme degree.. As a martial arts guy (my other hobby) there are major lessons MA folks could learn from seeing this incongruity in training...

Good stuff on the pack info... I am getting more packs finally so I can fly more than just a few minutes at a time...

Cypher rocks!:thumbup: