Cypher 3D - Love this Heli!

[blvdbuzzard]

Jim, you just wanted to work on you Cypher is all. The parts were getting stale. They were getting worn out and this is your way of rotating your parts stock. :)

I have been so close so many times. I will be there with you one day. What goes up will come down, in one piece or in many pieces.


Dru.

[Globs]

Yeah I lost mine in the dark too, no I'm extra careful and still prefer to fly in the cold bright light of day!
I haven't crashed mine for a while - despite some unscheduled nose in after I lost it for a moment, but I had daylight and height, useful aids to avoiding the ground ;)

[maddog57]

Dru, this weekend I'm gonna try what you've said about piros. I assume [ya know what's said about assuming?] you mean to do slow ones, yes? Also I'm gonna lock my shaky knees, squeeze my ass cheeks together and go into idle-up... see how that goes !!!! Gotta keep 'er up high like you say. I think I've finally got it in my head to give it throttle when I get in trouble, instead of throttling down in a panic. Just that took a while !!

Oh yeah, finally got my 4 sets of carbons from Deal Extreme a week or so ago. Haven't had a chance to balance 'em yet, but will for the weekend. The sets I got look almost perfect. Don't see any blemish or anything. Can't wait to bolt 'em on !!!!

Jim, I feel your pain and frustration. I've been there so many times myself. The other day I went thru all my Cypher repair parts order reciets, [yeah I save 'em], just out of curiosity, and tallied up the $ amount. Could not believe it !!!!!!!! Money well spent IMO though. Better than blowing it in the bar :YeaBaby: Don't give up man, we'll get there one day !!

Man you guys got balls flyin' in the dark. It'll be a while before I go there !!

Chris :thumbup:

[blvdbuzzard]

Chris, the piro speed is as fast or as slow as you feel comfortable with. I would do a slow piro to nose in then a super fast one to tail in.

It is hard to remember but when nose in, move the left stick in the direction the helicopter is moving to counter act its movement. Say the helicopter is drifting to the left, move the right hand stick to the left and the helicopter will stop moving.

One thing about the pucker factor, it will squeeze a dime into a quarter :):):):)


Dru.

[maddog57]

:rollingI'll be using those quarters for Cypher parts. If I squeezed hard enough could I get dollar bills?:rolling

Chris :thumbup:

[Olgierd]

Hi,
I am back from vacation. I fixed my Cypher with digital servos after my crash . I got a feeling that I lost connection; it did not response for my stick movement. I had cheap UBEC from HC and I think he cause some problem. The crash looks not so bad, but part inspection said that I hit hard a grass.
I fixed my Cypher added stronger UBEC from HeliDirect and did 10 flights last weekend.;) I am running Hyperion DS11-AMB with 6v and for tail I used step down to 5v. It is difficult now to tell how much they are better than popular Airtronc analog servo. I feel Cypher is getting more controllable and smoother. I also switch to carbon fiber blade PRO 3D CF from HeliDirect. They are good, little heavy and totally not dynamic balanced.
I am in stage of practicing nose in and improving figure eight in all direction. Cypher is great heli to start and learn but definitely we need to practice on simulation in order to develop memory muscle.
There is one think which I do not like in Cypher. The tail control is not the best one. I have always slop and sometime I discovered that tail control arm disconnected from tail rotor blade holder. Do you guys have the same issue?

[warbirdnut]

Thanks for the encouragement.. . I just hope I can put it back together and have it run as well as it did before..

I keep replaying the crash in my head,,, 'why didn't I do this, or that...'

Oh well.. I'm gonna be extra careful in the future..when I finally get back flying..

BTW if the main shaft is bent and the associated parts should I also replace the bearings too?

The frame took the crash very well with the exception of a canopy post which ripped off the frame..

Jim

[maddog57]

Olgierd, it sounds like maybe your tail blade holders may be on backwards if the pins on the grips [holders] are coming out of the control arms. Did you have it apart for repairs at one time and put it back together wrong? I did that very thing once. Luckly it didn't cause a crash. I posted a pic once, of the way I've mounted my tail servo [you may remember seeing it] close to the tail assy., like you do. Was either Dru or Vechlor that spotted mine on backwards. Something to check out. Both my Cyphers tail control assys. have always been tight with very little slop. Only a crash has caused any looseness and I always be sure to correct the problem.

Jim... main brgs. don't need to be changed each time you replace the shaft. But when you do, you'll want to check them. I put the new shaft thru them [before mounting the head/swash] and slowly turn it, feeling for any slop or gritty feeling, and watch them too. Also it's a good time to oil the one-way brg. in the main gear cuz I don't know how it can be oiled with all assembled !! As for the canopy post tearing out, depending on the extent of the tear, you could repair it. Myself, I've had that happen too. Didn't want to fix it, I replaced that frame half instead. It's surprisingly easy to do. A set set of frame halves is only $14 at HobbyPeople. The amount I crash, I'm a firm believer in having lots of spare parts so I'm not waiting on parts to fly [or crash:lol:].

Chris :thumbup:

[warbirdnut]

Ok thanks..

I may have more questions when it's time to re-cypher..

Yeah I figured I'd need to buy new frame halves.. No they are not that expensive but things are really tight for me now and I have a long list of parts to order..

I should be ordering the first batch this weekend and the next batch in a week... Hope to be flying again in less then 3 weeks..

As far as nose in, some folks I've seen try taking off nose in as opposed to taking off tail in and turning her.. Just like starting tail in with short hover times and bringing her down.. Training gear helps too..

I never had much trouble nose in with planes but it does feel different with helis.. It may help to think of her flying at you like a plane when the nose is in...

Jim

[maddog57]

Jim sorry if it seemed I was implying anything about costs. Things are a bit tight here too and I didn't realize you had a long list to order. Just didn't want you to "cobb" your beautiful Cypher. Too bad shipping is so much these days. I always choose the cheapest rate, unfortunetly that always takes the longest time.

I balanced one set of my Deal Extreme carbon main blades today. Had to add 2.5 strips of tape to one for balance, which I was surprised about. The stock woods only needed half a strip, if any !! Also CG is off by 4mm, again the woods CG were always equal. Other than that they seem great. I'll find out this weekend.

Dru, do you have the same results with your carbons?

Chris :thumbup:

[warbirdnut]

Not at all Chris.. Finances just suck right now for me.. If I was making what I used to I would just buy a new Cypher on sale and keep what's left for parts..

I need heli insurance..

Jim

[blvdbuzzard]

Jim, I too watch my spending on parts. If the only thing wrong with your frame is the body mount post, Ca and some glass cloth is a cheap fix. I have used JB weld to hold the frames together for non critical areas. Mix the JB weld and some glass cloth and it is close to bullet proof. You can paint the jb weld with a sharpie so the grey does not show on the black.

I have bent the main shaft so bad that I had to cut it in 3 pieces to remove. The bearings were fine. I replace the bearing ONLY when they feel rough or I hear them turning. If you go to the dark side of the hobby shop, the car/truck section, Traxxis and HPI have bearing you can match up for about 1/2 the cost of the Cypher.

Jim, I have been there with you. I was so broke I was worried about the power I was using to charge the batteries. I did find I was so scared of crashing, I would crash. Try not to get out beyond your comfort zone, but do not pucker the second it lifts off.

Chris, I do not use tracking tape on any of my blades. I use good old fashioned electrical tape. Cheap and has worked on my blades all the way from my nitro 30 days. I used about an 1 to 2 inch piece of tape. I balance for CofG first. That puts the tape out towards the tip. Then I balance for weight. That puts the tape on the CofG.

Chris, your woodies were better then the paint stir sticks I had. They were about 1/4 inch of for CofG and weight was almost 3 complete wraps of tape.

I use the this balancer for the 450 sized blades. I had to modify the pins that hold the blades, they were to thick to fit through the main blades.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKHJ7&P=ML

[blvdbuzzard]

Jim. Not sure if you have seen this place before or not. I do not remember if it has been posted or not.

http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=heli&Category_Code=CypherParts

I used them for a long time for my nitro helicopters. Great service and almost always had parts in stock. They were the first ones to start selling the Cyhper. They had a deal with the RDS8000, and servos way back when.


Dru.

[warbirdnut]

Thanks Dru...

I saw that one, they have slightly lower prices than Hobby People but HP are offering free shipping which makes it about the same or better..

Jim

[maddog57]

Dru, I balance like you... first for CG for each, then for weight, I don't have a nice balancer like you show , here's what I use...

http://www.helidirect.com/align-blade-balancer-k10289a-p-723.hdx

with this stand...

http://www.helidirect.com/blade-balancer4mm-p-2822.hdx

The stand was given as a gift [ my daughter didn'y know it was meant for larger helis]. It works great though.

I put the tracking tape supplied with the blades at the tips first, then find and mark CG. Then put them both on my "balancer" and add tape to the light blade on the CG mark. I use 1/2 " wide elec tape for that. We're doing it the same, just with different equipt.

Ron Lund does have slightly lower prices, on most stuff. If you need to replace the motor or ESC and want to stay with OEM parts, go to HobbyPeople. For some reason Ron charges $78 for ESC / $52 for motor, HP are $58 / 30 !!!! :dontknow

Question for anybody... if I put heavier flybar paddles or weights on the Cypher, will that make cyclic responce tamer? What would be the results of doing that? I have expo at 35% with cyclic servo arm link balls at the end hole of the servo arms. I'd like to take some of the "twitchiness" out to practice different orientations, thinking it'll help me. whadda ya think?

Chris :thumbup:

[blvdbuzzard]

Sounds like we are doing it the same way Chris.

Chris, to tame the response down a little, put a 1/8inch wheel collar on each side of the fly bar next to the paddles. If that is not enough then add a second one to each side.

You can also lower the head speed to soften the way it flies.

When I was flying my Nexus 30, it came with plastic paddles. I could order aluminum paddles to soften the roll rate.


Dru.

[Vechlor]

I use the same align balancer as Chris and two airtronics plastic servo cases for the stand. For balance tape, I made a dozen 76x6mm strips from leftover florescent orange sticker sheet. Finless Bob's blade balancing video from his heli 101 video thread is a must see. I use the same process he shows to balance my blades.

The black/white carbons from HC used one strip on each blade, one for cg and the other for balance, these were nearly perfect. The whites with the "3D" text carbons from helidirect are really bad with 5 strips for cg and 6-7 for balance on the other blade. In Finless Bob's video, his align woods are perfect in balance and the carbons were way off. Even with the carbons aligned and edges matched up perfectly, the carbons have a thickness difference to them which I think is causing the imbalance.

There's been a lot of wind lately. Last weekend the wind started to pick up around 8am and dies off around 6pm.. I tried flying with the lighter black/white carbons and the heli bounced a lot. Josh's cypher, who I helped with his build, had the heavier stock woods and had less trouble.

Also, anyone know where to pick up some 315mm carbons?

[maddog57]

Am wonder what everybody is using for tail blades on their Cypher. I'd like to go with a better than stock set for mine. I like the KBDDs. Read good stuff on them in other forums. Do the advantages of carbon apply to tail as with main blades? Looking for high visibility as well.

Also, when measuring blade length, is it total length, hole to tip or what?
Thanks guys

Chris :thumbup:

[blvdbuzzard]

When I ordered my Diablo, I ordered a bunch of these.
http://www.heliwarehouse.com/proddetail.asp?prod=PHNX1192BK&cat=12

If you have not seen the Diablo, it is here
http://www.heliwarehouse.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RCT450DIABLOCOMBO

If you want real low cost you can get the blades in white for $1.50
http://jaghobbies.com/rc_planes/belt_cp_cart.htm

These are about 1 to 2 millimeter longer then stock.
http://www.xheli.com/62mm--450-tail-blade-.html

I have been real lucky. I have only gone through 3 sets of tail blades.

Dru.

[maddog57]

Dru those blades look allot like some sets I have left from my Exceed G2 heli. The Diablo looks beautiful and so dose the RTF Pheonix !! How different to fly, set-up, ect. is the over slung fly bar? At this stage I'd be too afraid to fly them... they're too nice !!!!

Thanks for the input. Think we may have talked tail blades earlier in this thread, not sure.

How 'bout fhe rest of you guys. Whatcha usin' ?

Chris

[maddog57]

Dru. I cruised thru Heliwarehouse after I posted. Man they have some awesome CNC parts. I like those RC-TEK helis !!!! Very compatable with the Trex,yes? Can you give some info on RC-TEK? Is Heliwarehouse the sole dist.?

Chris :thumbup:

[maddog57]

Sorry. I double posted.

Chris :arggg:

[blvdbuzzard]

Chris I did go a little over board on this one. I have (3) HS-65MG's, Logitec 2100T gyro with the matching 3100G digital servo. I bought it with the aluminum case. This is the reason I bought my first RDS8000. I have about $900.00 in it.

Heliwarehouse.com is a good place to deal with. They packaged the helicopter nice and safe for the trip across the USA.

You can also get it from rc-tek.com.

It is a type of TREX. For the most part you can interchange parts between them. They are a slightly different design. The head assembly is as smooth as anything I have ever used. Teh tail uses no effort to move. It is a really sweet machine.

Finless did a video on it. I set mine up just as he did.

To me, if I compare the Diablo and the Cypher, the Cypher is lighter and a lot more twitchy. It has a faster reaction to inputs. The Diablo is smoother and is a little bit more stable. I am not as comfortable flying the DIablo though. I am worried about the money to repair it. Teh Cypher would cost less to repair then the Diablo.

I do not want to get to far off topic, but if you want to add to your fleet and do not want to kill the wallet and you want a TREX type, then there is the EXI. I built one for a friend. It is not bad. I set it up really soft and gentle.

http://www.nitroplanes.com/exi-450-rc-helicopter-kit-v2.html

http://www.nitroplanes.com/450-cnc-rc-helicopters.html


Dru.

[maddog57]

Didn't mean to get us off topic. But was impressed with the Diablo.

Finally got to fly on Sun. My Cypher is dialed in pretty good.[finally !!]. 3 paks just hovering around, up/down, left/right, going easy cuz it's been a while since my last session. Everything was exellent, think this is the best it's flown since I bought it. 4th pak... up we go to hover and was about to try going into idle-up for the first time [feeling pretty confident at this point] when all of a sudden the tail slowly starts drifting to the left. Brought it back and all seemed good for 10 - 15 sec when it starts to drift again ! Get it back and then the tail just let lose and off Cypher goes. Don't know how but managed to save it and land. Tried to find a problem thinking it must be mechanical cuz it was rock stead earlier. All looked good, took it up again, all good ... then away she goes again. Couldn't get control and into the grass she goes. Usual damage, plus the pitch servo stripped out. Don't know what's going on with my GY401. When the trouble first started, seemed like the tail wasn't responding right too. Post flight check doesn't show any mechanical problem. Any ideas fellas?

Chris :thumbup:

[Olgierd]

I tuned my Cypher with digital servo. I tightened my tail. I discovered that I made mistake putting those rubbed into servo mounting hole and secured it to tail. It was too loose and could tilt during flight. Now I like it. The tail with GY401 is much more solid and don’t shake.
I also unscrewed paddle and made them on every side more fare away. I decrease my expo on collective to 25% on JR radio. Now I can hung in the air and make very smooth turn and circle.
I was working whole weekend on improving my transition in hovering from nose out to nose in. The most challenging position is nose in little tilted right. To make in this orientation move forward backward or in any sideway is really challenging.

I like the most the cheep carbon blade 3D 325mm form HeliDirect. I do not see reason to go for 315. The longer blade the more stable heli is.