Cypher 3D - Love this Heli!

[Ah Clem]

"Clem, I see ALIGN poll is in ALIGNS favor at the moment.."

Kevin,

The poll shows an over 33% failure rate, at the moment (33% of users claim to have experienced a failure). Failure rate should be, at the most, around 4%.

IMHO anything above 6% would be grossly unacceptable. Again, my opinion only. All my 450's have JR servos in them.

[kevinbattista]

"Clem, I see ALIGN poll is in ALIGNS favor at the moment.."

Kevin,

The poll shows an over 33% failure rate, at the moment (33% of users claim to have experienced a failure). Failure rate should be, at the most, around 4%.

IMHO anything above 6% would be grossly unacceptable. Again, my opinion only. All my 450's have JR servos in them.


oh ?. didnt think of it like that.. .. good point huh? ;) so what JR's you use.. ds285? do they have a cheaper "non~metal" gear? i'm not a fan of failure.. so like i said.. one more strike and ALIGN is OUT. if i didnt already order the servo i would have just got the JR's..

[Ah Clem]

Ken,

I have the older JR281's on my old 450's, 285's on the Mini-Titan and the VNR3DXL, and 285MG's on the 450 Pro, the EXI clone of the 450 Pro, and the Cypher.

Any time I put in one of the models equipped with the nylon gears inverted, It took out the gear sets on at least one of the servos (usually two). I have not cracked up on of the machines equipped with the metal geared servos yet-but I am hoping that the gears will stand up to it (actually, I am hoping not to crack them up).

The nylon gear sets are cheap and easy to replace. It is more trouble to remove the servos from the helicopter than it is to replace the gears.

I do not know the price differential between the metal geared servos and the nylon geared ones, at the moment. I usually just buy the set with three cyclic servos and a tail servo (3500G).

I am not completely down on the Align servos, by the way. I have a set of the earlier nylon geared ones in my 250. I did not participate in the poll, as they are not the MG's. I just wanted to point out that the reported failure rate seems rather high (non-scientific polling admittedly, but high-again my opinion-for whatever little that is worth).

You might also look into the Hitec servos. I do not use them myself (I like to standardize across machines), but many people do and they seem to work well. My preference is for the JR (a bit slower, but more precise, to me).

By the way-NO CYPHERS APPEARED AT MIRAMAR! I actually considered bringing mine, but ran out of room in the car. As it was, the Caliber 700 got bumped at the last minute in favor of the ice chest (good decision as it got quite warm at times).

[kevinbattista]

Ken,

I have the older JR281's on my old 450's, 285's on the Mini-Titan and the VNR3DXL, and 285MG's on the 450 Pro, the EXI clone of the 450 Pro, and the Cypher.

Any time I put in one of the models equipped with the nylon gears inverted, It took out the gear sets on at least one of the servos (usually two). I have not cracked up on of the machines equipped with the metal geared servos yet-but I am hoping that the gears will stand up to it (actually, I am hoping not to crack them up).

The nylon gear sets are cheap and easy to replace. It is more trouble to remove the servos from the helicopter than it is to replace the gears.

I do not know the price differential between the metal geared servos and the nylon geared ones, at the moment. I usually just buy the set with three cyclic servos and a tail servo (3500G).

I am not completely down on the Align servos, by the way. I have a set of the earlier nylon geared ones in my 250. I did not participate in the poll, as they are not the MG's. I just wanted to point out that the reported failure rate seems rather high (non-scientific polling admittedly, but high-again my opinion-for whatever little that is worth).

You might also look into the Hitec servos. I do not use them myself (I like to standardize across machines), but many people do and they seem to work well. My preference is for the JR (a bit slower, but more precise, to me).

By the way-NO CYPHERS APPEARED AT MIRAMAR! I actually considered bringing mine, but ran out of room in the car. As it was, the Caliber 700 got bumped at the last minute in favor of the ice chest (good decision as it got quite warm at times).




Who's "Ken"?;)

i'm not worried if the nylon gears are not good for 3D as i'm not there yet.. i just want a good servo that will keep me in the air not on the bench.
I'm still to new to judge honestly whats good or bad but.. 2 outta 3 is just :thumbdown:
i still want to stay alittle on the cheaper side .. $150 for servo's + shipping... not really in the budget right now..... but if i could cut like $50 off that i may have a chance with the wifey;)

[Ah Clem]

"Who's "Ken"?"

My apologies sir-many typos this morning (old age).

The nylon gears are actually fine for 3D, its those unfortunate, unplanned inverted landings that cause one grief with the nylon gears.

The servos are very precise and reliable.

[kevinbattista]

"Who's "Ken"?"

My apologies sir-many typos this morning (old age).

The nylon gears are actually fine for 3D, its those unfortunate, unplanned inverted landings that cause one grief with the nylon gears.

The servos are very precise and reliable.


Oh.. i see.. well so far i've just "landed" side ways ;)
so it looks like the DS285's are on my wish list :thumbup:
Thanks again.. :cheers

[blvdbuzzard]

Ken AKA Kevin :)

I am pretty much a lone hold out on servos. I am still running the Airtronics 94091 micros at $14.00 with nylon gears. I have many crashes and no stripped gears "YET"!!!!

One of the worst maneuvers I have done is the inverted figure 9. You do the loop just fine but the ground comes up and smack the crap out of the helicopter.

I was looking at a set of the newer Airtronics digi servos. Just find it hard to spend $30.00 plus for each servo when my are working well at this time. Plus the digi use more power and that means shorter flights. That 10 to 20 seconds means a lot to me :)

Man I have to order some batteries. I am going crazy here. Not even sure I could hover with my lack of flight time.


Dru.

[kevinbattista]

Ken AKA Kevin :)

I am pretty much a lone hold out on servos. I am still running the Airtronics 94091 micros at $14.00 with nylon gears. I have many crashes and no stripped gears "YET"!!!!

One of the worst maneuvers I have done is the inverted figure 9. You do the loop just fine but the ground comes up and smack the crap out of the helicopter.

I was looking at a set of the newer Airtronics digi servos. Just find it hard to spend $30.00 plus for each servo when my are working well at this time. Plus the digi use more power and that means shorter flights. That 10 to 20 seconds means a lot to me :)

Man I have to order some batteries. I am going crazy here. Not even sure I could hover with my lack of flight time.


Dru.

~Dru,
I have heard alot of different things bout AIRTRONICS .. good and bad.. and i've heard alot more good then bad about JR.. although i heard alot of good about ALIGN too and look where i'm at ;) so i'm not really sure what path i'll take next.:thinking gotta look into it more. like i said.. it's a 3 strike deal and ALIGN is on it's last swing.. if i have another ALIGN servo failure i'll figure it out then i guess..

oh .. about analog and digi servo's.. whats the REAL difference? i dont mind spending the $ on the good digi's but what makes them the GOOD digi's? since i have not flown my CYPHER with analog i cant compare... i know my Blade cpp2 must be analog and that flys just fine.. ( except for the tail ) is this difference more of a 3D thing?

AND ... where can i learn more about 3D moves? like see a vid .. name the move.. show how it's done .. kinda thing? i do ALOT on my sim that i'm afraid to do with the CYPHER so i would like more info.. ya know?;)

[Ah Clem]

Kevin,

"about analog and digi servo's."

Good (notice I qualified that, didn't you?) digital servos are more precise and hold better under load. You can feel the difference in the way the helicopter handles and stays in position.

It feels tighter and crisper in flight.

Does that help?

Also,

"where can i learn more about 3D moves? like see a vid .."

There is an excellent DVD out by Alan Szabo (it is an older video-he is flying Raptors and Airtronics radios). The content is outstanding-he performs various 3D maneuvers, describes what he is doing, and the transmitter, showing his stick movements, is shown in the bottom corner of the screen.


Ah Ken, no-Ah Kevin, er Ah Clem...

[blvdbuzzard]

I agree good digi's make the helicopter "FEEL" more locked in. I flew my MX450SX with digi servos and it would hover hands off like a balloon. It was to stale. Took for ever to do a flip. Yet it was very precises when it came to hovering. You could see it move ever so slightly when you moved the stick. Good servos also have a lot less slop in them. Compare your Align servos to the Blade servos.

I have flown Airtronics for a long time. Most of the bad I hear is from people who have never flown one. I was told my RD6000 was total junk and I should have spent 3 times the money on a JR. Yet, side by side the JR had about 1/4 the features the RD6000 did. I have not flown JR radios, but have heard a lot of good about them. I have flown Futaba. I had several bad things happen and so I went to Airtroincs. I have flow Hitec also. I loved the Super 7 they had. I flew it for a year then lost 5 planes with it after sending it in 4 times. The only thing I use from Hitec is the low end servos. If I am going to spend the $100.00 plus on a servo it will be one of the big 3.

Dru.

[kevinbattista]

ok yup yup.. makes sence bout the servo's.. kinda what i figured.. analog=blade= skeeter on crack... got it:thumbup:

ok and ...uuuh....uuuhhhh ..... AH,..... Clem...
wheres might I find this said Alan Szabo dvd ... ? .. do it gots a name or is it just
"The Alan Szabo 3D video" ?:thinking;)

>> she's almost back together....:woohoo

[Ah Clem]

Mr. Battista,
(did I get it right this time?)

I bought mine from one of the mail order hobby shops.

I think MTA had it in stock last time I was there.

Watching it is a humbling experience...

[kevinbattista]

Mr. Battista,
(did I get it right this time?)

I bought mine from one of the mail order hobby shops.

I think MTA had it in stock last time I was there.

Watching it is a humbling experience...


MTA? could ya make this ez on me and slap up a link or somethin..?..
i'm a bit lazy lately..;)

P.S. "Mr. Battista" is my Dad ;)

[Ah Clem]

Sr. Battista,

http://www.mtahobbies.com/

I did not see it listed this time, but they might still have it.

I did find it at Helihobby:

http://www.helihobby.com/html/rc_helicopter_training.html

[kevinbattista]

Sr. Battista,

http://www.mtahobbies.com/

I did not see it listed this time, but they might still have it.

I did find it at Helihobby:

http://www.helihobby.com/html/rc_helicopter_training.html


didnt see it either but did see Ray's ...
thanx for the info on it:thumbup:

got the bird back together but once i put the main blades on the thing almost vibrated off the bench! .. not happy:thumbdown: cant figuure it out and have to go to work so dont have time .. but the blades are balanced.. 24.8g each and cog is spot on ..
i took the blades off and spun it up.. no prob.. so i re checked the blades and tryd it again... vibrated again !....and when i say vibrated ,, think brick in washer on spin.
i dont get it :dontknow


* ok i think my blades were THAT out of tracking.. maybe? once tracking was set i spun her up and away she went:banana she hovered good but still need to fine tune

[rcjames]

I don't get it, look theres not so much people showing pic of this thing why is that? I want to get it you guys talk so sweet about it. Can someone show me some videos and pictures i'm interested. You guys should be showing off alot of pics like other people showing off their align, exi, torot and so on. Can everyone show how their helicopter look?

[kevinbattista]

I don't get it, look theres not so much people showing pic of this thing why is that? I want to get it you guys talk so sweet about it. Can someone show me some videos and pictures i'm interested. You guys should be showing off alot of pics like other people showing off their align, exi, torot and so on. Can everyone show how their helicopter look?

~James
we have all kinds of pics floating around.. but you're right,, we should put together a forum post for pics..
if you would like to see pics , check out my profile. i have many pics there.
sorry, no vids yet.

[rcjames]

~James
we have all kinds of pics floating around.. but you're right,, we should put together a forum post for pics..
if you would like to see pics , check out my profile. i have many pics there.
sorry, no vids yet.

Hey guys i posted a thread so you guys can share photos. I'm getting one i don't know when though. Thank you kevin. Undercypher 3d, u will see threads right about cyphers well i created a thread http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=229253&highlight=cypher

[kevinbattista]

Ok Guys....
I was the FIRST one to post pics and vids... dont make me be the ONLY one ;)
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread....ghlight=cypher (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=229253&highlight=cypher)
You're welcome rcJames:thumbup:

oh, i have a question.. how many of you fly with expo? and how much?
i've been playin around with it lately and found i like a sensitive mid stick.. wondering how you guys fly.. ..

also i noticed with my gain at 100% my tail still spins a 1/4 turn ? any one else usin the GY401 have this happen?:thinking it's the last vid i posted

[Ah Clem]

kevin, ken, both of you,

"oh, i have a question.. how many of you fly with expo? and how much?"

It depends on the helicopter. I will have to look at the Cypher to see. Some of my helicopters have none, some have positive, some have negative. The Trex 600E and the Raptor 90 3D have negative expo to speed them up around center.

"also i noticed with my gain at 100% my tail still spins a 1/4 turn ? any one else usin the GY401 have this happen? it's the last vid i posted"

I went back and watched the video. Do you mean that when you punch it, it yaws about 90 degrees, even with the gain at 100%?

[kevinbattista]

Clem... "I went back and watched the video. Do you mean that when you punch it, it yaws about 90 degrees, even with the gain at 100%?"
~ ya.. is that normal?
i also noticed that with my esc on soft start it will make me crash...can get it to speed up quick enuff to avoid the ground... i learned the hard way this morning:thumbdown: do you think that would change the head speed enuff to effect the tail yaw? wait ... no .. ok not possible.. tail gear is connected to the main gear.. main gear connected to the pinion gear, pinion gear connected to the mo-tor.. these are the gears of the hel-i.. ( sing it with me..) ok sorry..;)

[Ah Clem]

Ke???,

No it is not normal. The gyro/tail servo should hold the tail steady when you punch it no problem. GY401 is a good gyro.

What tail servo are you running?

Tail control on the two Cyphers I have flown has been very, very good, by the way. Mine has a GY520, my friend's has a GY401. Both machines have JR 3500G tail servos.

Soft start should not really be an issue in terms of getting the machine off the ground, unless you take off before the head is up to speed, or you get into a harmonic where the helicopter starts to dance around on the ground and starts to beat itself to death while you are spooling up. In this case, a softer start can be a problem.

[blvdbuzzard]

Kevin, this is a big YES!!!

do you think that would change the head speed enuff to effect the tail yaw?

If the head speed is not high enough, the tail rotor is not spinning fast enough either. If your slow start ESC makes you crash, then the throttle curve is not set high enough in the lower part of the curve. That would mean the ESC is pretty much shutting off. So raise the second point of the throttle curve to keep the ESC at about 20% throttle. That should be high enough to keep it out the slow start curve. I have mine set at 5%, 27%, 55%, 80%, 100% in normal mode.

Ask me how I know about slow starts and throttle curves? I too learned the hard landings way.

Dru.

[kevinbattista]

~Clem, usin the FUTABA s9257 tail servo.

~ Dru, mine's set at 0% 35 % 75% 100%.. when i get her put back together i'll try a different/ higher curve :thumbup:

does anyone know where to get a better tail gear box set up ( pitch levers, control arm.. maybe even tail grips) ? mine has some slop i wanna get rid of.. i've seen it for T~REX and EXI http://www.xheli.com/450alhe.html think it would be worth a shot??:thinking

[Ah Clem]

I am going to respectfully disagree with Dru here:

"If your slow start ESC makes you crash, then the throttle curve is not set high enough in the lower part of the curve. "

The Slow Start settings on the ESC's that I have used which are equipped with this feature and the throttle curve setting in the transmitter are two separate things. Slow start is a feature that adjusts the rate of acceleration of the rotor until it reaches the throttle setting that relates to the throttle position as determined by the throttle curve and the stick position of the transmitter.

If the throttle curve is too low for hovering at a proper head speed that will yield proper tail control, that is an entirely separate issue.

Slow Start should only affect the rotor speed during actual spool up and one should not lift off before the appropriate speed is reached. If the throttle curve is not set properly, the collective will come in before the head reaches a high enough RPM and you will lift off at too slow a head speed (I think this is probably what Dru meant).