Helidirect HDX450SE

[femi]

Hi, guys, :D :D

just ordered a brand new HDX450 SE from Helidirect. This heli appears to me to be at the same level of quality and standard as the Trex, and for a good price. I dont have any experience with this heli and would appreciate any comments or advise from members with some experience or knowledge of the performence quality of this heli. There definitley has to be some merits to this heli to have warranted my RC idol :noteworthy - Bob Finless to post set-up vids on the HDX450 SE at helifriek.com.

Any takers please.

[Finless]

Well I like the heli but like any heli it has it's pros and cons.

After flying one for a few weeks now here are some things to note:

Some parts are not compatible with Align parts like the tail. Thus some parts you will always have to order from helidirect. The tail shaft being one so order a few of those!

It does not have slow down gears so watch the head speeds. If your going to run a hotter motor then I reccomend doing one modification. That is to file a flat spot on the belt drive pully shaft. The drive pulley has 2 allen screws yet the shaft is splined thus the allen or "grub" screws tend to strip the splines and then the pulley slips. File a flat spot on one side of the shaft so one allen is "locked".

I dont know what motor your getting but the one I got (3000KV 450th) was fair for 3D. About the same power of a 420LF used in an XL. Runs very cool though! I just got the new motor they might be shipping now with the kit called the 450th HDX and I will be trying it this weekend.

I also am working on setup videos for the ELE 35A ESC and the new Otter 35A that they also should be shipping with kits. They are easy to set up but the instructions are bad and confusing.

I love the carbon blades that came with the kit... Very nice.

Replace the platic tail blades with something better like the Align batman blades.

I am not sure I have decided if I like the supplied tail belt... It's thicker and is showing NO signs of wear but the trade off is the system doesnt spin as freely as the Align belt does. I can shoot autos all day long with the SE but I have not tried it yet with the HDX as I am worried about this actra drag driving the tail.... Dont get me wrong it's not bad or anything just not as free as my SE.

Of course mount the gyro under the boom!

The battery tray to canopy placement is tight! The battery butts up against the canopy making it hard going on... Depending ont he packs you run this might present a problem. A guy here on Helifreak came up with a really neat mod to angle the top plate and mount the battery there like the SE.

Thats about all I can come up with right now....

Bob

[femi]

Wow, :shock: Thanks a million Bob, its really an honour to have you reply my post. Am your No.1 fan out here in Nigeria, and all my RC flight enthusiat- friends just, just LOVVVVVE you and your work. Just try for once and imagine what your work is saving us in USDollars; RC enthusiats like us here in the Third World have to save a small fortune, in local currency just to indulge in our favourite sport and mode of relaxation, this coupled with excruciating shipping costs, MAN, you guys in the U.S don't know what quality of life you're enjoying-with almost every RC Company practically begging you all with "free UPS" on all purchases. Not to talk of the ease of getting spares; As a rule, we stay off 3D moves on all our helis/planes and we are just as content flying basic sorties with the grateful and joyful heart of knowing we landed safely to fly another day.

I dont want to sound as if am patronising any personality; But guys; IF YOU GUYS DON'T APPRECIATE FINLESS, WE DO HERE IN NIGERIA, :noteworthy :noteworthy :noteworthy :noteworthy (and the emoticons are each from my flying mates here). Without Finless and his work, we would since have been frustrated out of this hobby. The RC industry has just got to REGOGNISE the invaluable worth of our man-FINLESS.

On a personal note, Bob, i thank you so much, i'll keep you posted of developments with my HDX450SE, and i hope i can always count on your support in future. :D

[supertrex2]

bob, your international superstar now :)

[Lenop]

:mrgreen: Superstar :mrgreen: Bob,

Having ordered and built this awesome kit too, I could use a little help setting up the Otter 35A ESC that was supplied in my kit. I just can not get smooth start up and the motor makes "beeps" when it is not supposed to, according to the 'manual'.

Other then that, I love the overall quality of the kit. All parts really look nice and well finished. I also modiefied the battery tray by drilling two small holes in the sides of the frame so the tray tillts down a litte for my LiPo packs to fit. My ESC is mounted on the underside of this battery tray. The receiver is placed in the aft end of the frame, at the bottom. Receiver mounted up-side-down under the boom. Will try to post some pics when I get home from work.

Thanks everybody for your constructive tips and hints.

[Finless]

Funny you should ask! I am doing a video for the Otter and that motor this week!!!!!

So you know you MUST have brake off (double startup beeps) and then the 5 beeps in a row need to be double beeps showing HARD timing.
If you arent in hard timing your motor will start funny....

Bob

[Lenop]

You just made my day! I have double start up beeps but the next five beeps are single, hence the crappy start up of the motor I have being it in soft timing, not hard. Hopefully I can get it to work putting it in hard timing. I'll report back on my findings.

Now only work for eight more hours on a PERFECT sunny, no windy flying day :arggg:

[Finless]

Any status?

Bob

[Lenop]

All right, these are the sounds the motor makes after trying it to get to work by your instructions: TX on, throttle stick low, a double beep, followed shortly by five double beeps. Per your instructions the motor should have brake off and hard timing. However, I still have funny start up.

Trying to switch timing modes I did the following: throttle stick full, two double beeps, followed after a few secs five beeps followed by five double beeps. By putting throttle stick to low after one of the series of five beeps (after 5x single or 5x double) I can switch timing modes.

Unfortunately switching timing modes does not make the funny start up of the motor go away. Both in soft as in hard timing the motor starts up funny. It seems though if the hard timing mode improves the start up some.

The funny start up describes itself the following. When advancing the throttle stick slowly, the motor starts up rather slowly. However, after a sec or two, the motor stops and makes a high pitched, screeching sound. Advancing the throttle stick a bit faster, the motor keeps spinning but suddenly spins up to a rather high rpm. I think this will just spins the heli around fierce if I connect the motor to the main gears to spin the rotor.

The motor does stop gradually from spinning when putting the throttle stick down indicating the brake is off. I'll do some more research later today.

Lennart

[blackjet]

I have been following this conversation with interest as I have this same ESC/motor set up in my T-Rex. I need to check which timing mode I am in, I believe it is hard, but I have exactly the same problem with mine. I advance the throttle and the main gear starts to turn then stops, then the motor makes a squealing sound. I have found that if I move the throttle stick up and down a bit the motor will kick in, although it is abrupt, but not enough to rotate the heli. Once started the set up runs fine and I have been flying the heli, but obviously this is not an ideal situation. The motor and ESC run cool with an 11T pinion and I am happy with the overall performance for what I payed. I have considered some possible causes related to gear mesh and an out of round main gear, but what is happening is not gear stripping. I am puzzled. I would be interested in finding out the cause.

Thanks,
Blackjet

[AV8TOR]

I absolutely love that frame. I added it to my Align all SE metal components and could not be happier.

[Finless]

Hmmm I do not have the funny start up but did when i had set to soft timing.

Do you have the governor switched off?

How tight is your pinion? These HDX gears are pretty nice so you do want to allow some backlash.

Also what is your throttle curve? Mine ramps up FAST
0, 60, 80, 90, 100.....

One other thing to try.... Try swapping around the wires to the motor for the heck of it. If you swap 2 the motor will run in reverse so swap all 3 wires order.

Bob

[Finless]

Also I did post a setup video last night in my forum under HDX videos.... Not sure you saw it but it sounds like you are set up correctly anyway. 2 beeps followed by 5 double beeps.

Bob

[Finless]

OK this AM I went for some quick flights and DANG I now also have the extreme cogging with the Otter and HDX450 on start up. I sent an Email to Steve and waiting ofr a reply but it appears there is a timing problem with that ESC and motor combo. The Helidirect 450th I had was fine was fine.

I think the reason I did not see it right away was the way i had my curves set up and it ramps up really fast..... Today the motor axctually locked on start up and screamed..... Not good...

Anyway when I hear back from Steve I will let you all know but I have a feeling this combo wont work together properly.... Lets see what I can find out first though.

Bob

[Lenop]

Just got an email from Steve with an offer to send me another ESC. This after I explained him the strange behaviour. Great customer support here. But first I will try an other motor on the ESC to rule out the fact that it might be the motor causing the troubles. This after your suggestion, Bob, that you do not have troubles with the 450th motor but only with the HDX450SE kit motor. (do not no exactly the type motor).

[BarnOwl]

With my first 450 - Otter combo and this kit I had lots of problems: Erratic startup so eventually the pinion stripped. Also check the bottom grubscrew of the motor because mine came off and the whole motor came down!
I reported this to Helidirect and he has sent me another set without delay. This is not much improvement as it was exactly the same set with the same problems.

Now I fly the motor on my second bird with an Align 35a ESC. I double checked the motor before mounting and it is flying ok now with the Align ESC. I don't dare to use the Otter again.

My opinions about the kit: Great frame, good alu CNC parts, forget about the motor and ESC combo. Anyway still a great kit for the money!

[Hangarace]

OK this AM I went for some quick flights and DANG I now also have the extreme cogging with the Otter and HDX450 on start up. I sent an Email to Steve and waiting for reply but it appears there is a timing problem with that ESC and motor combo. The Helidirect 450th I had was fine was fine.

I think the reason I did not see it right away was the way i had my curves set up and it ramps up really fast..... Today the motor actually locked on start up and screamed..... Not good...

Anyway when I hear back from Steve I will let you all know but I have a feeling this combo wont work together properly.... Lets see what I can find out first though.

Bob Hi finless ...just wondering if you ever heard back from Steve yet on the cogging problem with the Otter ESC. Turns out my build that I just finished did fine on the first few runups on the bench, but then I got the cogging and screaming. I probably will put a align ESC in it's Place since thats what I have an my other Trex...and it works. BTW. thanks so much for your well done instructional videos. I have learned and had so many questions answered just by checking this forum (great job Will!) It's really nice to have a willing individual offer so much of their time, and for free...what a wonderful world we live in.
Take care.
Dave

[Finless]

Yes Steve is now aware of the problem and is working with the manufaturer on a fix if possible. I will let you all know the minute I find out anyting. In the mean time he will stop offering this combo. I think he is going to provide the ELE ESC instead but I will confirm.

Bob

[Lenop]

Last night I was able to test the Otter ESC with a different motor. The motor in question was a EHS B20-3625-16L. The motor had timing issues with the otter ESC too. Start up was erratic and cogging. Tried both low and high timings. So there seems to be a real problem with the otter. Will contact Steve about my findings (great support from him btw) and report back here.
Lennart

[femi]

Hi, Bob,

Finally concluded my build-up of the HDX450SE, ofcourse, with the invaluable help of your videos. However, the kit didn't ship with the ESC; I talked to Steve, and consistent with his excellent after sales support, he had the ESC shipped. In the meantime, am using my Align 400L Motor and Align 35G ESC to run the HDX, seems fine to me, but not sure whether the 70% (low Discharge) or the (60% High Discharge) rates for battery protection mode is best to protect my Align 2100 11.1V batteries; It appears the 60% drains/discharges too much power from the cells; Also please confirm which timing is best.

However Bob, my main problem now has to do with the tail; In your vids you indicated that the HDX tail is controlled by the trailing edge, and that right rudder should move the tailslider towards to hub; well i adjusted my servo throw to do just that with some reduced ATV on left rudder, yet heli keeps spinning crazy to the left; strangely there appears to be some counter-torgue with left rudder;

I use a Futaba 6X Tx & a Futaba G240HH; Could you kindly give a step-by-step Tx setup for the 6X. Also please confirm what amount of tension the tail belt should have; does belt tension affect tail rpm?

Thanks.

[BarnOwl]

It sound like you have to reverse your gyro: There should be a little switch on the gyro you can put in reverse. I only have experience with the 401, but I presume there is also a reverse switch on the 240......

[Finless]

Yep.. sounds like the gyro is reversd to me too.

Can i ask what ESC Steve is sending? What motor did you get with the kit?
I am finding incompatabilities with the Otter and ELE and the HDX450 motor. Steve is now aware of my findings but hasnt told me what he is shipping now.

FYI the ELE seems to run my Align motor fine.....

Bob

[Turbo Boss]

Guys, how the HDX behave when it crash? What I mean do the G-10 or carbon frame, crack??? Or is very hard?
What have you damage in your crashes?

Also, I have read in several forums that this Otter ESC have give problems to almost everybody. Why Helidirect keep selling does ESC?

Can he supply another brand/better ESC in the combo?

THX

Isaac

[uragano47812]

I have hdx450SE v2 it's fantastic i had got some minor problems during assemble especially with tail drive gear.

I haven't try it yet but i have a question, i see that washout has got a lolt of free movements (sorry for my english)

My setup is this:
hdx450SE v2
Quark 33a v2 ESC
JGF 450TH 13T
Prolite v2 2100mah
Mah carbon blades

[overhead]

I too have noticed sloppy washout.

I was able to fix it and make it nice and tight.

See this post (http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=16964)

Dennis :D