Latest Trex 600 flight - With pack temps!

[Finless]

OK... As promised.....

This is live and uncut video of Andy Yu flying a Trex 600 this last Sunday!
This is representative of what will be shipping.
He got some of his radio problems worked out so no CRASH in this video ;)

Based on peoples requests I asked Andy to do a basic flight many would be doing or consider average..... You be the judge if this is what was expected.... If you want more just ask and if Andy comes to my local flying field I will film him.

What I asked Andy was to show an average flight and ending pack, motor, and ESC temps.

This is the facts jack so YOU DECIDE!

Here is the video:
Trex 600 basic flying with end flight temps (38 Megs) (http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=finless/trex600&filename=trex6001.wmv)

Bob

[DebianDog]

Long flight time is about the nicest thing I can say :twisted:

[Finless]

I forgot to add a flight time "timer" but as I recall is was 7 and 1/2 minutes.

Bob

[skywalkertje]

That looks really good, 7min30sec and a pack temp of 60 celcius in the end on 6S 4200 16 C flying mild circuits, some stall turns, loops and tic tocs.

What was his head speed?
These where SAB blades? Are these the normal SAB 50 size blades or are they also custom made for E heli's like the V blades he used before?

Maybe you can ask him to do some 'stick abuse' for 4 to 5 minutes and show us the lipo temp and head speed.

I'm buying one, there are new lipo's 20 to 30 C around the corner, just look at the Ion X on 3700 10S, that is .90 size!

[capebob]

I'm not knocking that fellow's flying, because if I were going to impress anyone with low battery temps that's the way I would do it. However, I don't think that flight represents the way that helicopter will be expected to perform in the real world. With that kind of flying a 140 degree F. center cell temperature is a little high. Some stick banging may render that pack a blob of smoking lithium. :(

Bob

[Finless]

If I see Andy again this weekend I will ask him to do some stick banging and we will do the same video but remember he aint no Szabo or Krause but I am sure he will do the best he can.

Bob

[AlpineCH.21]

ok wtf...you guys dont belive the szabos vids and their set up...then you wanted to see an average flyer...look the heli has been proven. Everyone is whining just because. Look the average flyer basically does cir-cuts and stall turns loops, rolls etc. This heli does it all... this is definitely the next step that most people are ready to take. It can take you as far a you want to go...just look at the Szabos and Krause...they fly it like a 90. Oh and capebob...people asked to see what the temps would be on an average flight...he wasnt doing anything watered down in flight...

Nick

[Gscott]

I must be missing something. That flight was pretty basic and the packs still came down at close to 140. How many cycles do you honestly believe you will get out of that pack running it that hot on every flight? That gives no margin for error or any room for harder flying.

[skywalkertje]

Well, I think you should limit the flight time to 5min, I hope the pack temp will be acceptable then, I hope Finless can test it this weekend.
But still, with current lipo technology I do not expect more than 50 cycles.

So that would be 250EUR per pack = 50 cycles * 5min : 250 min, so a running cost of 1 EUR per minute.

To me that is acceptable but not great.

My .90 nitro size has a running cost of .5 EUR per minute if I only factor in fuel. But IC engines running at max power do not last very long as well, especially the bearings, so you can puff :bomb: an IC engine too if you're not carefull! And the vibration/oil is hard on the electronics...

If we get 100 to 200 cycles in the not too distant future, electric will be cheaper.

But this is a hobby so I'll be buying one as soon as it comes out :)

[Laurens]

ok wtf...you guys dont belive the szabos vids and their set up...then you wanted to see an average flyer...look the heli has been proven. Everyone is whining just because. Look the average flyer basically does cir-cuts and stall turns loops, rolls etc. This heli does it all... this is definitely the next step that most people are ready to take. It can take you as far a you want to go...just look at the Szabos and Krause...they fly it like a 90. Oh and capebob...people asked to see what the temps would be on an average flight...he wasnt doing anything watered down in flight...

Nick

Nick, you probably don't understand it. People want long pack life, so 10s is better. This keeps the amps down.

Skywalkertje, (Jurrien?)
For your kind of flying you need at least 10s, or you'll kill the pack withing 50 flights.
If we get 100 to 200 cycles in the not too distant future, electric will be cheaper.
I hope not, lets keep it at 1000+ cycles we already have if we treat our lipo's right.

[RP3]

A 6S pack (3700-4200mAH) is a standard pack size for a Swift which runs 515mm blades and is smaller than a 30. I don't know why people believe a 50 sized heli with 600mm blades is going to be OK on these packs?????
With gentle flying, you're going to be lucky to get 20-30 cycles....

..

[skywalkertje]

Skywalkertje, (Jurrien?) Yes

Maybe Finless can also ask how many cycles he has on his 6S packs.

I'm sure 10S will fly great, but also very expensive and heavy. They don't fit in the front tray, they have to be mounted to the side of the frame.

[Laurens]

Jurrien, I heard the Szabo's have reported to have swelled already 2 packs of 6s.

10s isn't expensive, 320 euro for a pair. You can charge these packs in 20 minutes with a balancer. Having a 6s pack swell up is expensive.

Tot over een maand, als ik weer bladen heb.

[Gscott]

Skywalkertje, (Jurrien?) Yes

Maybe Finless can also ask how many cycles he has on his 6S packs.

I'm sure 10S will fly great, but also very expensive and heavy. They don't fit in the front tray, they have to be mounted to the side of the frame.

What's more expensive? Buying a 10s pack or multiple 6s packs because the keep puffing. The battery tray is one of the things that is complained about most. Instead of actually redesigning it they "blew up" a T-Rex 450.

[AlpineCH.21]

Laurens....yes i do understand seeming i fly with some of the top pilots...how is it that its been already proven that the packs on 6 though get hot have lasted more then like 50 cycles and are still going strong. The majority of every pilot who flies helis will never even get to that point where the top pilots sit. If there was to be any concern it would really be more for them now wouldnt it? The average pilot is only going to need to run about 1.8k hs..not the 2.3 like they are. 8-10min flights can come with a low hs and a relaxed flight and for the majority a tail-in hover. that keeps pack temps low, and if we were over stressing the battery to much align wouldnt put it in production...But the fact that it rips on 6s2p is amazing and is going to blow away those rediculously expensive 10s setups that are super heavy.

You heard from what source that the szabos have puffed packs...dude honestly...krause and Alan have been shipped over to tiawan 2 times for testing and develpoment. Between the two they have put mondo hours on packs that were carefully monitured. And to add to that, Andy has been flying his 600 for about a month now and has well over 40 flights to each pack and hasnt had one puff yet, and form what eveyone here says is an above average pilot.

Now people are crying about the battery tray!? Ive seen Andy have 2 lock outs due to a bad reciever pack and havent damge the packs yet. The fiberglass canopy and the velcrow straps definetly hold it in there nice and tight. secure to some of the worst of crashes.

Just wait for the 600 to arive..

Nick

[Finless]

OK here is my 2 cent OPINION......

Man am I getting desavu (I aint french)...... I remember these argements when the Trex450 first came out (Nick you were just gutter rash then).. It's too heavy, it will puff packs due to the weight and AMP draw needed, etc etc.... Granted things have come a long way! We have better motors and better packs.... In fact if it were not for park flying (planks and heli's) I dont think LIPOs would be where they are today! Us RC people have really caused a BOOM and thus a increase in lipo technology....

Now YES I think the Trex600 WILL be flown on 6S predominatly! Why because I bet you around the corner very soon 25C or even 30C packs will be the norm! It wont be a problem then!

Yes I think 140F on the center cells of a pack is OK but higher than I would like to see myself.... I would be much happier with about 120f. However, if you all recall we had that problem a year ago on the Trex450!!!! We all lived with it but still flew, had fun and enjoyed it! BUT..... we waited until higher C packs came out and got them ASAP to solve the amp draw problem needed for performance motors.

Myself.. I will fly with the packs getting to 140 no problem! I bet by the time I wear them out, my replacement packs will be better and so on......

10S was needed before but it will be replaced IMHO..... Lets not stay STUCK in what we know today and keep that as a benchmark, but plan for the future..... Is it PERFECT right now... I doubt it in fact I am sure of it... Everything has a compromise somewhere but with what is happening with lipo technology and motors, I think this argument will go away very quickly.

Bob

[Hulley]

When is this bird gonna be available?

[Finless]

My understanding is 2 weeks to dealers. Remember the dealers probably already have a list of PRE buyers so those first shipments are probably already gone...

For the pipeline to be filled fully to meet "on demand" orders I will make a quess at 1 month knowing Align.

Bob

[Raven_darkcloud]

ok what about the new 18c and 20c cells I have ben reading about. They are out there now. its just the case of custome order packs or build your own packs. And sony has new lithium comeing that will blow away what we are using now. Faster charge, with higher discharge. Like finless said better cells are just around the corner. and Its up to the pilot. 6s2p 8s2p 10s. its a batterie on a heli. c'mon fly what you want to and others will fly what they want. Me I'm like 70% of flyers out there, fly on the weekends happy to do simple flying. Hmm runing hot. change pinion and go less agresive. That will cool the pack down. I know on my 430 3550 had great power and can do varry agresive flight on a 14t pinion but packs got hot and only 6 min flight. so I droped to a 11t and I get good flight time and all the power I need. Its the same on a 600. set it up for how you fly. If you bang and slap it around then set it up that way. If you just put about and do light 3d then set for that. My only thought is if I toast a set of blades on my 400 its no big deal. Its the price of 600 blades. I wana know what blade range it will fly on. Hows it fly on woodies. And when can I see one in my hands. lol

[Laurens]

The majority of every pilot who flies helis will never even get to that point where the top pilots sit.

Its all about collective management. Pilots like you and me suck at collective management. Have you seen the Alan Szabo raptor 30 vid? Can you do the same with that raptor, or do you know someone who can? That kind of flying doesn't rob a lot of power.

Pilots like you and me will really shorten the lives of a 6s pack. This makes them more expensive then 10s.

I'm looking for a new heli, and the Trex 600 really looks good. I'm going to use 10s 3700 Flightpower evo if I'm getting a 50 size electric. I'm thinking about doing a 90 conversion though. That would be way cooler.

First I'll just wait how the pilots who bought the 600 do. Crashes will be very cheap, but will the heli hold up? I had a V2 and it sucked, but I might give align a second chance for me.

[king kong]

Collective management? these guys are running 12-13 degrees of pitch in their helis. They may have colllective management, but they're smoothe STICK BANGERS, and stick banging draws more amps than just flying the heli around.

Just so u guys know, the align speed control and motor are only designed for 6s, and will burn up on 10s.

[king kong]

[quote="Laurens"]Jurrien, I heard the Szabo's have reported to have swelled already 2 packs of 6s.quote]

Ok, i just got confirmation from Alan sr, and he informed me that they have NOT puffed any of their packs flying the 600


Frank

[Laurens]

Ok personal conformation is more likely to be true then something I read on RCgroups.

However I still insist that 8s should be the minimum for 3D. 10s is the best for both the pack and power.

[Heli_Freak_de]

Flown with 6s2p (4 packs of Align 2100/16C): http://uploadfile.putfile.com/videos/15917592655.wmv

I think with new cells from Flightpower, TP or Xcell it's no problem for 6s. It's also much cheaper to load and balance 6s

[skywalkertje]

Great video!

How would you build your 6S 20C from flightpower?

3700 6S 1p (very easy to balance and load, but a bit low on capacity)

or

4200 6S 2p 4*2100 (a bit heavier but more AMPS) same config as the aligns

I hope to see further evidence that all will be fine on 6S if you keep the flights under 5 min...