Gyro initialising sequence??

[lex7919]

I just got my new gyro and servo fitted It's a Gaui 210 gyro and Hitec 5084 tail servo, it's new on the market priced at £48 and interestingly comes with wait for it Futaba GY 401 instructions!!! ok it don't say Futaba on them but i've checked and they are the same.
Although i do know mine use's a different type of sensor but so does the 401B people are raving about. Anyway so far i'm very impressed ill put my neck out here and say i think this gyro is going tobig news in this price range.
That servo damm that thing is quick 0.05secs at 6V!!!! for £29!
Any how my question is this when initialising the gyro which as per instructions should be done in HH. With the transmitter been switched on first i use speky gear doing it this way produces blinking on the rx which is normal if power is interupted i know and sur i can do it this way but then if i get a brown out for real how will i know.

The gyro take 3 seconds to initialise and speky rx around 5-6 sec
So will it have adverse effect if i power up rhe heli first then my tx if theres no signal to the gyro just power does it initialise is RATE,
And if so does switching to HH then have an adverse effect on HH modein some way such as drift etc

just a bit stumped but otherwise i LOVE it

[Ber60]

Hi lex7919

I don't know if I can help, but what is "speky gear".
Never power up the heli before the TX (it leaves the heli to decide what it wants to do) unless it is tied down.

[Ian 777]

??? not sure about that Erwin, with the DX6i if you power up the TX first the receiver blinks cause it registers signal loss, the RX is fail safed to power up first without doing anything nasty.

[psilo]

So, if you are switching on the tx then the rx and getting blinking then something is not right. If your problem is just that the gyro is initialising before the tx/rx do then simply get everything setup, make sure you are in hh mode and rebind the tx to the rx. This way the gyro should get it's initialisation in HH mode anyway.

[Ber60]

Originally Posted by Ian 777

??? not sure about that Erwin, with the DX6i if you power up the TX first the receiver blinks cause it registers signal loss, the RX is fail safed to power up first without doing anything nasty.

I did some manual reading and you are right Ian, my bad

[sutty]

Is the DX6i different in this regard or am I doing it incorrectly with my DX7. I always power up my Tx then the heli and the reverse for power down. I just figured, even though I knew the Rx was meant to go failsafe in the absence of a Tx signal, why take the risk. Plus it means I keep the correct habits for other systems, if ever I find myself using them. I have always gone Tx then Rx and the Rx has never flashed at me?

[psilo]

Same with my DX7 & now my DSX9. Always power up tx then rx and never get a flashing light.

[lex7919]

Now thats interesting that you don't get the blinking with the dx7 or dx 9 obvioulsy Spektrum did something about it and changed something i have good relationship with a couple peole at horizon so ill investigate and report what i find.

Gerd, i don't understand how rebinding will change the situation ,there's nothing wrong with my setup this is very common with DX6i set's it's been this way since i started using it a couple years ago. If i rebind then how is it going to make the gyro initialise in ANY other than rate mode if its not getting the signal from the RX by the time it is initialising?? i wouldn't of thought it would be able to know what mode it is in with no signal unless when binding it's different and i just don't know it.

What i have been doing as the gyro is very similar to GY401 is teaching the gyro centre stick using the fliping between rate and HH serval times method that seems to work ok, but i don't know if this is best method either??

For anyone else reading i have since day 1 powered the rx then tx i trust my gear 100% though this is due only to flashing on the rx, i'm totall aware that anything can fail (although sensible chanel position's while binding is extra fail safe) and preferably i would be slightly more at ease doing it the more traditonal way TX then rx.

[Heli Yea!]

Hey Lex look on pg. 19 of your"Specky" manual at the botom #6.

[psilo]

Originally Posted by lex7919

Now thats interesting that you don't get the blinking with the dx7 or dx 9 obvioulsy Spektrum did something about it and changed something i have good relationship with a couple peole at horizon so ill investigate and report what i find.

Gerd, i don't understand how rebinding will change the situation ,there's nothing wrong with my setup this is very common with DX6i set's it's been this way since i started using it a couple years ago. If i rebind then how is it going to make the gyro initialise in ANY other than rate mode if its not getting the signal from the RX by the time it is initialising?? i wouldn't of thought it would be able to know what mode it is in with no signal unless when binding it's different and i just don't know it.

If you rebind with your gain channel in the postition that is HH on the gyro then THAT will be stored as your failsafe in the rx. So whenever you turn the rx on then it will go to that setting until the tx links.


EDIT: Just realised this may not be the case with the DX6i and rx you are using. With my DSX9/AR7100R I have smartsafe and failsafe. So can have it stick with last input on signal loss or go to failsafe position.

[psilo]

Alex, out of interest how close to your model are you when you power up tx? I had noticed when I had my dx7 that it would often take a long time to link if it was very close to the rx. Move it away a few feet and it would link a lot quicker. The only issue I have known with the DX6i and the flashing lights has been caused by it being too close to the rx at power up.

Originally Posted by Spektrum DX6i manual page 22

Q: Sometimes the system takes longer to connect and sometimes it doesn’t connect at all. Why?
A In order for the system to connect (after the receiver is bound) the receiver must receive a large number
of continuous (one after the other) uninterrupted perfect packets from the transmitter in order to connect.
This process is purposely critical of the environment ensuring that it’s safe to fly when the system does
connect. If the transmitter is too close to the receiver (less that 4 feet) or if the transmitter is located near
metal objects (metal transmitter case, the bed of a truck, the top of a metal work bench, etc.) connection
will take longer and in some cases connection will not occur as the system is receiving reflected 2.4GHz
energy from itself and is interpreting this as unfriendly noise. Moving the system away from metal
objects or moving the transmitter away from the receiver and powering the system up again will cause
a connection to occur. This only happens during the initial connection. Once connected the system
is locked, and should a loss of signal occur (fail-safe), the system connects immediately (4ms) when
signal is regained.

[lex7919]

Hi, Gerd

thanks for the info, to be honest this is something i have looked into in some depth i did see the above post on spektrum gear some where a while ago i can't remember where though. Moving the TX away does make a differance in the time taken to get the link to the RX while better it's not enough. Try putting it right next to the RX it takes about 10-15secs!! My main problem here is i don't think that i will ever be able to get it to happen i,ve never seen the rx get the signal as quick as this gyro initialises ittakes litteraly 2-3 secs from power on.
I'm going to try the rebinding see if thats nany better (i hope so) tonight.
If it doesn't change anything the method of swicthing between HH and RAte is this an acceptable way to do it or should it be avoided?

Cheers

[psilo]

The 401 MUST be initialised in HH mode. The switching method I believe is just for setting your trim so is not an acceptable way.

What rx are you using? I have never had problems with my 401 on spekky gear and my rx's all initialise within 1-2 seconds top. If your's is taking so long I would consider sending both the DX6i and rx back to Horizon for them to investigate.

I assume you have got zero trim and subtrim on the rudder channel?

[lex7919]

Originally Posted by psilo

The 401 MUST be initialised in HH mode. The switching method I believe is just for setting your trim so is not an acceptable way.

Originally Posted by psilo

What rx are you using? I have never had problems with my 401 on spekky gear and my rx's all initialise within 1-2 seconds top. If your's is taking so long I would consider sending both the DX6i and rx back to Horizon for them to investigate.

I assume you have got zero trim and subtrim on the rudder channel?

Thought that was the case with the 401, according to my instruction's the switching method is to teach the gyro where neautral is in HH if you've initialised in Rate!, however i am not convinced either Gerd so think safest way is not to do this.

I am quite sure that the TX and RX are ok i had them checked out a while ago, unrelated matter it's a 6200 rx, So anyway i thought i'd do some testing tonight after what you posted earlier you got me thinking,
I think i got it sorted now it's a bit of a sequence to remember but seem's to work as long as i alternate plugging positive and neg in on the lipo/esc! I know don't get it either.

Switch tx on in HH
place at a MIN full arm strech away from heli point arial directly skyward*
hook up lipo poss first the neg
Rx gets signal split sec before the gyro initialises
Job done!
*It appears that the aerial orientation is key here and the differance in signal pick up time to the rx is quite staggering to see. Although i have experimented with distance between rx/tx before as i said i never changed the aerial position!

Weird but next battery have to go neg then poss on lipo/esc or it's still quick but the gyro will initialise first

Also noted that although the switching method seem's to work there is definately some yawing in flight usually after 4-5 min's .

When it all works as it should there is definate increase in the gyro's ability to keep the tail "locked in" which i'm still VERY impressed with for the cost of the gyro.
Just for comparrison the ESKY HH gyro i ordered as a back up/emergency gyro came today so this evening i've been experimenting with that to. Just to see the diferance WOW! big differance if ever any one needs to see why spending the most you can on a gyro in the first place is good advise then thats the way to do it!!, i say no more.

So Gerd i'll keep doing this and keep a eye on things but thanks for you input it's really helped motivate myself to find a solution ur advise was spot on thanks bud.

Also, the "cinese"weight mod on that tail hub.... nice!!

[psilo]

You running the tail already? If you out the tail on a bird with gyro already setup then you will need to turn the gain down quite a bit, the weight mod makes a huge difference.

Glad you got a way round it that seems to work albeit a little odd

Maybe your right about the switch method, I understood it to be auto-trimming rate mode when you switch to it from HH mode, but could be wrong.

[lex7919]

Running the tail?? take it thats flying backwards new lingo lol,
If that's what you mean then in a way yes can't fly circuits (Yet) it's the nose in orientation that throws me a bit still but im working really hard on that so i reckon another week or two and i should be good to go.
I fly on tennis court's on a school well it's 4 tennis court's but on one tarmac area! plenty of space i fly to the end of them forwards then cause of the nose in i just fly back tail first it's just how i taught myself and it's fun too love getting a lick on coming back and whacking in a load of down elev to a nice 45' angle and a handfull of collective she stops on the spot, just love it .

I notice that the tail does'nt need as much gain with the weight's on, i read the link you sent, very helpfull guess it's cause there's less effort needed to control the tail. I've turned it back up now put my standard CX tail back on i was just trying it out i do like it, i'm just discplining myself to learn with stock set up i figure any mod's latter on then i'll be able to feel.

Here's the info from the 401 manual,

•Rudder neutral signal memorization methods

[Method 1] When the gyro power is turned on, the transmitter rudder signal
automatically received at that time is assumed to be the neutral signal and
is memorized. The gyro is normally used in this state.
[Method 2] Rapidly switch the transmitter sensitivity switch between the
AVCS and normal modes at least 3 times at a 1 second or shorter internal,
then set the switch to the AVCS mode position. The monitor LED flashes
instantaneously and the rudder signal is memorized. If the trimmer was
moved during flight, the memorized neutral position can be updated to the
current neutral position by repeating this operation. When performing this
operation, land the model and hold the rudder stick in the neutral position.

•Rudder neutral check method

In the AVCS mode, the servo does not return to the neutral position even
when the rudder stick is returned to the neutral position. When you want to
check the servo neutral position during linkage neutral check, etc., select
the normal mode, or remain in the AVCS mode, and move the rudder stick
left and right at least 3 times at an interval of 1 second or less, then immediately
return the stick to the neutral position. This operation returns the
rudder servo to the neutral position.

Whether or not this is what you mean by auto trimming i don't know Gerd im still learning thought maybee you could tell me.?

Thanks

[psilo]

Lol, I meant you have the new tail on already by "running the tail already"!

Just watch out on the modded tail. I did my other CX tail also, but on that one I think the jig slipped and the weights were out of line slightly which caused the tail to not hold well at all. I am 99% sure the one you have is fine as I flew it for quite a while but if you start getting weirdness then you can just drop the weights off.

[lex7919]

See there ya go trying to confuse me (don't take much i know) it was the referance to what the weights actually do what got me mixed up, thanks for the tip i will keep an eye on it one thing about me Gerd if i get an upgrade coming the bird is stripped the night before ready to fit and go fly
I'll make this last part of this thread cause i think we gone way past gyro's now, but one thing i have learn't today is CX come with some funky sized hex head bolt sizes!! I gone and rounded the FX shaft bolts!!!
When i finally get em out ill replace with the Align ones that was on the shaft in the head you sent as they are obvioulsy good'ens not made of butter!
The tail slider on the CX is the Align one exactly the same i see there's a cnc arm do they do the actually slider in aluminium too?