E*RaptorCam

[AZ ChopperCam]

short clip of this mornings test flight.

it's fuzzy due to that high freq. vibe. need to figure that one out.

http://www.azchoppercam.com/portfolio/video/e_raptorcam_1.wmv

[AZ ChopperCam]

got 2 new motors from Hacker. we're going to try a 12L and 16S. I think I'll try the 12L first. I will try to fly tomorrow AM.

DJ

[AZ ChopperCam]

i don't know why I always say "I'll fly tomorrow" I should know by now that when it's all sitting right here I inevitably put the stuff togethr and go fly!!

so after a flight today in 104° ambient temp check these numbers on the 12L

9:03 flight
11.5lb AUW
batt temp 108°
esc temp 112°
motor temp 205°
esc governer at 100%
headspeed, not an exact number but about 1450 (kinda low)

back into the pack 2950mah!

so..... the 12L is more efficient, likely due to the significantly lower headspeed.... I am consuming only about 330mah/min. Interpolating would show that a 13 minute flight should be possible, but those motor temps are still warm.

After meeting and speaking with Sean at Hacker today (a very nice guy by the way), we came to the conclusion that the motors may be "normal" in operating at 200° temps in ambients of 100+. He says even thoguh the manual states 149° max not to worry. The manual was written in Germany where their ambient temps are normally alot lower than what we have here in the desert. The magnets are good to 150°c. So.. even though they may run hotter than other motors, it may not be an issue other than a "mental" worry.

I will put a flight on the 12L tomorrow at around 84° ambient and report back.

After a couple flights on the 12L I will swap to the 16S and see.

[miami6]

we need to get DJ Some Data Logging equipment to see how his two different motors perform for AP use

[AZ ChopperCam]

this morning.

A50-12L motor
ambient 85°
9:20 flight
batt temp 102°
esc temp 104°
motor temp 185°
headspeed 1510 ( I used an airplane tach in "low" mode)
11.9lb (put my new GS300 on it)

back into pack 2880mah

had the watt meter hooked up. Hover was 19.7amps. Watts Peak was 849.

I could have flown for another 4 minutes. It looks like the 12L is pretty efficient. It just runs almost as hot as all the rest of the A50's I have tried. So that tells me that the Hacker is a good design in terms of power output and efficiency but it could use a new fan design. Honestly I can't see how that small fan does anything. I'd like to see the fan 2-3 times as thick with a better blade design. If we could get more air through the motor and get it to run 20° cooler it would be golden!

That said, after talking about the temps to Sean at Hacker, I am not too worried about operating at 200-205°. Besides that's only in 100°+ ambient and I never really fly then anyhow. Most of my work is done at 90°-. So I should only see temps of 190° or so.

In the fall and winter I'll be flying between 45-70° and I can't wait for that!!!

[GGoodrum]

Good report. :)

I'd still like to see how the A50-16S does. Are you still going to give that a try?

-- Gary

[dreslism]

this morning.

A50-12L motor
ambient 85°
9:20 flight
batt temp 102°
esc temp 104°
motor temp 185°
headspeed 1510 ( I used an airplane tach in "low" mode)
11.9lb (put my new GS300 on it)

back into pack 2880mah

had the watt meter hooked up. Hover was 19.7amps. Watts Peak was 849.

I could have flown for another 4 minutes. It looks like the 12L is pretty efficient. It just runs almost as hot as all the rest of the A50's I have tried. So that tells me that the Hacker is a good design in terms of power output and efficiency but it could use a new fan design. Honestly I can't see how that small fan does anything. I'd like to see the fan 2-3 times as thick with a better blade design. If we could get more air through the motor and get it to run 20° cooler it would be golden!

That said, after talking about the temps to Sean at Hacker, I am not too worried about operating at 200-205°. Besides that's only in 100°+ ambient and I never really fly then anyhow. Most of my work is done at 90°-. So I should only see temps of 190° or so.

In the fall and winter I'll be flying between 45-70° and I can't wait for that!!!

Sounding better. If your meter tells you, what is the peak amps you hit during that flight?

Also did you tach it on the ground or in a hover?

Thanks

[AZ ChopperCam]

my watt meter won't tell me peak amps, but using peak watts and doing the math would show it went no higher than 22amps or so.

Tach was in hover. I mounted my tach on a light stand vertically and then hovered over it. rpm fluctuated between 1495-1575. It's a 20 yr old Futaba tach that my dad bought way back when.

[AZ ChopperCam]

I'd still like to see how the A50-16S does. Are you still going to give that a try?

yep! but I want to fly this week with the 12L and build up some numbers. Next week I'll give the 16S a go.

[dreslism]

my watt meter won't tell me peak amps, but using peak watts and doing the math would show it went no higher than 22amps or so.

Tach was in hover. I mounted my tach on a light stand vertically and then hovered over it. rpm fluctuated between 1495-1575. It's a 20 yr old Futaba tach that my dad bought way back when.

You should get one of these:

http://www.eagletreesystems.com/MicroPower/micro.htm

It will record your whole flight and you can graph and plot it later. This would be perfect for comparing the 3 motors, and different batts, as you will have real flight data for the entire flight to see what is really going on.

If you don't want to get one, I can send mine to you and you can use it for a while if you want.

[AZ ChopperCam]

just looked at that. I will buy one for sure. should I get the optical tach sensor? and if so where does it point? to a reflective piece of tape on the main gear or can it see the main blades?

[dreslism]

I don't have the tach sensor myself, but I should have gotten it, for $14, seems like a no brainer. Then you will really see how your governor is doing also!
I bought it back at an rc show, and I am not even sure I had a heli then, so I did not get the tach.

After RTFM'ing I see the following:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Installing the RPM Sensor in your Model
The Optical RPM sensor should be installed so that its face (the flat part opposite the wiring) is
facing a spinning surface on your model, such as the prop hub, flywheel, spinner, axle, gear, etc.
The sensor’s face should be mounted so that it is about 2-5 mm from the spinning object. It is not
a bad idea to test the sensor at various distances using Live Mode (see your Recorder instruction
manual) to determine the best distance before permanently mounting the sensor, if this can be done safely. The sensor can normally be glued into
place, or mounted with heatshrink or tape to a self-constructed bracket (brass tubing usually works well), depending on where you are mounting it.

The surface to which the sensor is pointing should have alternating light and dark areas. The dark area must NOT be shiny or reflective. It should
be flat. For best results, half (180 degrees) of the surface should be light, and half should be dark. If you are mounting the sensor near a spinning
hub that is constructed light colored material , a black magic marker (if the result is not shiny), flat black paint, or flat black electrical tape can be
used to color half of the circumference black. Or, if you are mounting it next to dark colored spinning object (such as black plastic), you can use
white paint, white tape, or a white paint pen to make half of the circumference white. Note that if you are mounting on a black plastic spinning
object, make sure that the plastic is flat. It may be necessary to lightly sand it to take off any glossy surface. See Figure 3.

[AZ ChopperCam]

hmmm... I think I'll just mount the sensor under the main gear and use some polished aluminum tape for the marker.

just placed my order for the unit itself, the tach sensor and the LCD display.

[AZ ChopperCam]

well... as I mentioned in another thread I started earlier this evening, I had inadvertantly twisted the tail belt 180° to far. So.. the belt was rubbing against itself and there was a bit of extra belt tension. (yes... stupid)

After realizing the mistake I fixed it and just flew.

A50-12L motor
ambient 95°
6:05 flight
batt temp 106°
esc temp 111°
motor temp 183°

back into the pack 1800mah

slightly less mah/min and the motor appears to be running cooler than it would have at the same ambient temp.

Tomorrow AM will confirm

[GGoodrum]

Sounds good. I've done that before and it does rob power, especially when trying to do 3D. Looking forward to your report.

-- Gary

[AZ ChopperCam]

A50-12L motor
ambient 81°
9:30 flight
batt temp 97°
esc temp 104°
motor temp 179°

back into the pack 2998mah

[dreslism]

Cool.

What is your pack capacity? 5000 ish?

[GGoodrum]

That's great. :) You are using about 315 mAh per minute, which is pretty efficient. That works out to about 14 minutes, with a 10% reserve on the packs. Normally, for hard 3D, I don't recommend using more that about 80% of a pack's capacity, per flight, but in this role the cells aren't being taxed at all, so I think only leaving 10% in the "tank" is fine.

-- Gary

[AZ ChopperCam]

What is your pack capacity? 5000 ish
yup. 10s2p 5000mah

That's great. Smile You are using about 315 mAh per minute, which is pretty efficient
yeah... I am liking the setup now. thought the low headspeed may be an issue but I did some FF today as well as some nearly vertical descents and if flown with a tad of caution it does really well! It also cuts down on vibration alot since the total enery of the rotor system is lower.

I will try the 16S this weekend. When I get the eagletree datalogger I will fly both motors and collect data.

but for now I'm happy with this setup. I would put it to work on the next shoot. :smokin:

[GGoodrum]

You know, with this motor you could go to a 12s-5000 configuration quite easily. Using the 86T/9T gearset, the h/s would go up a bit, to about 1600, which is probably better, but more importantly, the durations would go to about 17 minutes+. :)

I'm anxious to hear how the 16S does. I think on 10S, this may be the best, in terms of efficiency. We'll see.

-- Gary

[AZ ChopperCam]

Gary you and I are thinking alike! I was considering buying two 6s2p 5000 packs and trying 11s and 12s on the A50-12L. gonna run me about $750 but may be worth a shot.

17 minutes would be just plain sick!!! absolutley sick! and if it proved itself over time I think I would ditch my nitro and convert it to E. 100% E-power sounds really nice.

[GGoodrum]

The new 5000s are single-cell now, so the packs are smaller and a bit lighter. More imprtantly, the so called "new formulation" mix means the voltage under load is even higher, so you should see a bit higher durations than you have now. :)

[AZ ChopperCam]

can I mix a 5s of the version I have now with a 6s next gen for an 11s setup? I'm thinking probably not.

[GGoodrum]

Yes, you could do that, but you would need to charge them separately.

[AZ ChopperCam]

Gary when will you have those packs? I'm ready to buy (2) 6s 5000