25 minutes on 9lb JR Venture 50E?? $3600 if you can

[AZ ChopperCam]

I've seen claims of 20-25 minutes on a 9.2lb Voyager 50 converted to E-power on a 5s 6000mah lipo pack. The claim is 5100mah were packed in after a 20 minute flight. I just can't seem to make the math work.

20 minutes using up 5,100mah is about 15 amps. 15 amps at 18v is 270watts!! That's close to 30 watts/lb. ?! My math doesn't see it but maybe someone more knowledgeable in E-power can chime in.

I ask because I've got about a 10lb rig and I have only heard of around 10 minutes max on a 10s pack with gentle AP style flying.

how the hell do you get 20-25 minutes on a 5s 6000mah pack swinging 680's and hauling 9.2lb???

[miami6]

what size blades are you running on your e bird

[AZ ChopperCam]

680's on mine and I think the Voyager 50 in question run's the same size.

[dreslism]

I've seen claims of 20-25 minutes on a 9.2lb Voyager 50 converted to E-power on a 5s lipo pack. I just can't seem to make the math work.

Assume a VERY conservative number of 500 watts to hover. 5s at 18 volts means it's pulling about 28 amps. 28 amp draw for 25 minutes is about 11,667mah. How is this possible? My math doesn't see it but maybe someone more knowledgeable in E-power can chime in.

I ask because I've got about a 10lb rig and I have only heard of around 10 minutes max on a 10s pack with gentle AP style flying.

how the hell do you get 20-25 minutes on a 5s pack that must weigh less than 2lb??

I would love to know also...

I think they're using that new "Chicago math". :cool:

sorry could not help it.

They stated Total flying weight was 9lb's. 3oz

They also stated weighted paddles and 600mm carbon blades.

When I spoke to them they said it was an axi motor and a 70amp Jetti ESC, no talk of gearing. Hard to get them to answer anything before they basically tell you to $#@!-Off. :twisted:

[AZ ChopperCam]

very strange... I did some more research since my first post and edited my post to reflect what I discovered. I come up with 30watts/lb. to me that seems awfully low for a helicopter hauling around AP gear.

and why have a 70 amp ESC if all your're pulling is less than 20 amps? something smells like a bag of rotten spinach. I hope potential buyers are smart enough to do some basic math before accepting the claims and jumping in. What I would like to see is a complete flight on video, unedited and showing real time telemetry overlaid on the video the entire time.

If that was done and it really flew 20-25 minutes I would slap myself with a wet spaghetti noodle.

[WillJames]

I don't think it is possible. Don't believe everything you read.

[MarkWebber]

Claims are easily made. Then, when your customer fails to duplicate those claims, you mearly point out that they must be doing something wrong. Isn't that what the BBB suggests?

Bet ya don't see that proof you were speaking of DJ. Sounds like that magical 100mpg carb has gone electric! :D

[dreslism]

I had asked on RR if anyone had bought any about 1 month ago, John immediately chimes in and says oh yes, we have sold 18 and shipped them. (This was at the time when they were too busy to answer any questions I had about it and told me to go buy something else.)

Myself and another person asked on RR if anyone had one up and flying a while after that.

NO ONE replied about having one.

Someone else just bumped the thread over the weekend to see if anyone has one flying yet, and still no reply.

I mean hey being an ARF and all, it should be a no brainer to get it in the air. Right? :wink:

I just can't figure out why no one wants to post about their new V50 from airfoil.
:roll:

[AZ ChopperCam]

I mean hey being an ARF and all, it should be a no brainer to get it in the air. Right?

yes! and especially priced at $1500 or so.

I figured it was impossible. I'd prefer to not turn this into a bashing session if at all possible, but I think what it does is prove what alot of us already know about you know who.

I asked about this cause I am new to electric and just now learning all the formulas and this one just didn't add up to me. Had I never gotten into electrics I would have likely accepted it. I just hope that no one buys this rig based on run times.

[Crjbenny]

oops :oops:

[dreslism]

Hey Ben,

Thanks for the reply, but here comes the confusing part.

That is not the airfoil electric v50 we are talking about.

I saw that post also, and that is the old one, which I think was the voyager electric with 680 blades already stretched. We are actually talking about the new one which is weirdly enough still called the v50, but it is based on the JR venture 50 and only sports 600mm blades. It came out about 1-2 months ago.

So far no one has replied about their experience with the new one even though they were selling like hot cakes.

Anyhow, enough about this thing. Let's ask the guys who really know and do it every day.

What type of runtime do these Joker flyers get?

I know there are many out there, Tabby flies a couple of them, I am not sure of the sizes, I think the cx is about a 60 size, and the maxi and maxi 2 push a 90 size?

What battery setup and runtimes do you get.

I know Danno does balcony shots all the time using a Joker, slowly climbing up to 400-600 feet, I figure he has to have 20 mins runtime to do that. What is the AUW weight and battery setup for those?

DJ,

I think this came about from your poor (unexpected) runtime with your Raptor 50.

I have one also, and this might be comparable to a Joker cx in size? I know you stretched yours and are spinning 680's.

So if this is comparable to a Joker cx in size, then how come they get 20?? minutes and we get 5-10?

One thing I did notice is I see reports of them spinning in the 1200-1400 rpm range.

My raptor spins at 2000, and I have it dialed down to 1750-1800ish.

I don't know, so I am asking, does that affect our runtime?

[AZ ChopperCam]

Scott,

by the beginning of next week I am hopingto have my E*Raptor flying with camera load (11.2lb AUW) and fly for around 10-11 minutes... maybe more.

I had a dead cell in my first pack which would have cause very high amp draw.... hence the heat and low run time. I just bought two 5s 5,000mah Flight Power packs for the E*Raptor and Joker.

The Flight Power packs are said to hold voltage better under load thus requiring less current. combine that with 5,000mah pack instead of 4,200mah and I'll bet I get 10 minutes.

Dakine (who originally had the Joker I bought) said he could put 10 minutes on the bird and still have ample mah left in the pack. I suspect that the Joker with 10s4p 8,000mah will fly for around 13+ minutes loaded with 3lb. Just a guess as I don't have it yet though.

[dreslism]

I just bought two 5s 5,000mah Flight Power packs for the E*Raptor and Joker.

The Flight Power packs are said to hold voltage better under load thus requiring less current. combine that with 5,000mah pack instead of 4,200mah and I'll bet I get 10 minutes.


Cool, what does those fp packs go for? Do you have a link for them and their specs (weight, price and all).

I am looking to increase my runtime now, but not sure I want to dump $500+ on batts.

Did you get the batts with your joker, or pass on them (I thought I saw it included some in the forsale?)

[AZ ChopperCam]

I got them at Duralite batteries website... but in a couple weeks Gary at TPPacks is going to stock them.

I ended up paying about $580 for 2 5s packs. The Joker is coming with an older version 10s4p 8000.

As soon as Gary starts to stock the FP packs I'll order another pack or two for the Joker. Also, TP is coming out with next generation packs that have more capacity and higher C rating. Hopefully by the end of the year we'll see some great packs at better prices.

[dreslism]

I got them at Duralite batteries website... but in a couple weeks Gary at TPPacks is going to stock them.

I ended up paying about $580 for 2 5s packs.


Thanks. I guess the end of the year can't get here fast enough for me then!

NO actually I am enjoying summer and trees with leaves on them. :)

At that price, I will just be flying my 5-6 minutes which is enough for stills for me. I'm slinging a big old couple pound itself underslung mount right now too. Time to lighten it up.

I need to put some 620's (just at 600) on there also but need to find some semi's and see if I can't squeek some more runtime out with those.

[AZ ChopperCam]

I just bought some fiberglass 660mm semi's that I will try next week. I'll post up how it goes.

[Tabbytabb]

I find that flight time clame a bit hard to swallow as well. I have toiled over the last few years to come up with the most efficient electric setup and I think I have a fair bit of experience but do not get the kind of efficiency stated by AF and certainly not with those caliber of components (axi motor etc)

Here is my point of refernce. I shot video for 12 hours on sat and sunday and a 10 minute flight at 21lbs on the Joker 2 Maxi was taking about 4200mah to recharge. This works out to around a 25.2 average amp draw which is right in line with what I expext given that my heli hovers at 26.7 amps fully loaded. This comes out to 45.6 watts per pound and this is really a low number, my setup is extremely optimized (24-5 running semi syms 800s and spinnning 1200 rpm on the head). I have tested almost all the available 10s setups, all the blades (V blades, TGs, NHPs Joker Maxi etc) to try and squeeze every last drop of performance out of this rig.

I really dont think you can put together an AP ship with any substantial payload that can do 30watts/lb. Maybe just the joker maxi spinning like 900 rpm could fly at that level but the thing is the head gets soooo mushy at such low HS.

On another note of interest to you DJ, this was my first time shooting huge quantities of video back to back almost continuously and I only used 3 sets of packs out of the 6 I had available. The TP charger and balancer set to fast charge to 95% had packs ready to go in 30 to 45mins.

just my 2 cents

Tabb

[AZ ChopperCam]

great to hear about the back to back flying Tabb. I've seen that 95% fast charge option on my TP charger but have been afraid to use if for fear of to high of "C" charge.

Your numbers sound awesome. 10 minutes at 21lb and taking only 4200mah is a VERY efficient setup that you should be proud of. I'm really anxious to see how my Joker will do loaded with about 3lb.

[dreslism]

great to hear about the back to back flying Tabb. I've seen that 95% fast charge option on my TP charger but have been afraid to use if for fear of to high of "C" charge.

Your numbers sound awesome. 10 minutes at 21lb and taking only 4200mah is a VERY efficient setup that you should be proud of. I'm really anxious to see how my Joker will do loaded with about 3lb.

That is good info Tabb.

DJ, the 95% fast charge does not change the "C" rating as far as I know. It just does 95% capacity charge and says that is good enough, which is why it is a "fast charge" that last 5% saves you about 15-20 minutes on the charger. You still set the C charge value by the amps setting that you set.

I am pretty sure that the only way to get higher than a 1C charge is to set it higher yourself like instead of 4.2 amps, you set 8.4 amps which would then be 2C on your 4200 pack.

[AZ ChopperCam]

ahhh... ok. I never even tried to read the instructions on the charger or my TP210V balancer. you need to hold a masters degree in cryptology to understand them.

[dreslism]

ahhh... ok. I never even tried to read the instructions on the charger or my TP210V balancer. you need to hold a masters degree in cryptology to understand them.

Yeah, those manuals are the worst.

Also here is a word of experience on the 210 balancer.

NEVER CONNECT TO BANK 1 AND BANK 2 AT THE SAME TIME!!!!!

IT WILL LET THE SMOKE OUT OF YOUR BALANCER.

See if you can find that in any special warning section of your manuals.

That right there should be printed on top of the balancer itself. My mistake was not unplugging the tap extender from bank 2 before connecting it to the battery which was also connected to the 4 pin tap on bank 1. Poof.

$100 poof!

[AZ ChopperCam]

I remember reading that over at RCG. What I don't understand is the group a and b stickers on the leads of 2 packs and how you determine which goes to what.

[Tabbytabb]

DJ, that part pertains to charging 2 packs in series at the same time. Basically what they are trying to get you to do is to connect pack a to the series harness the same way and to the group A balancer the same everytime.

I charged my 5S packs in series a few times but it really isnt worth the hassle IMO. It usually takes a long time to do so since the charging current ramps way down if the packs are out of balance at all. Right now I am using 2 1010c's with one 210V and one 205V so each 5s pack gets charged by its own 1010.

I think 12-15 minutes will be easily attainable on your CX if you dial the HS down to 1700 or so.

Tabb

[dreslism]

On another note of interest to you DJ, this was my first time shooting huge quantities of video back to back almost continuously and I only used 3 sets of packs out of the 6 I had available. The TP charger and balancer set to fast charge to 95% had packs ready to go in 30 to 45mins.
Tabb

So Tabb,

I take it you had AC power available to you at your shoot to be able to charge your packs at 1C fast charge like that all day?

If not, what is your power supply that lasts for 12 hours of shooting and all those charges?

I find field charging much more complicated now that I have a larger heli and 5s and up packs.

When I just had 3s packs on my planes, I would charge those off of the car battery all day, but it was only 2 amps @3s.

Now 3 amps+ @ 5s is a no no off of the car.

Thanks

[Tabbytabb]

The shoot did have AC but I also use a honda generator for shoots when AC isnt available. I found field charging to be a pain also until I picked up the generator.

I cant tell you how many times I killed my truck battery ! :D