Avant RC previews the Aurora Ultimate

[Crazy Horse]

Huh guess now you know how people in the US feel that want the diamont with the distributor trying to sell them out of france..sucks but if you want it youll pay the price...my hypothesis is youre getting back doored by your distributor since augusto is taking huge measures to make the kit more than competitive.

[Augusto]

Just to let everyone in France know.

There is no distributor selected for France yet so whoever told him this supposedly 1,400 euros price figure is completely off base. There is no reasoning with this kid so I simply ignore him and all his posts until a distributor for France is selected and he can talk to them.
As posted by Blars most european dealers have much lower pricing so why he can't wait until there is a french distributor before complaining about non-existent french prices is beyond me.

Augusto.

[ibepilot]

Dont Worry Augusto,, we got your back !!!! Just keep up the good work ,, we are all waiting patiently..There has to be one in every country... !!!!


Rick

[MD3DNT]

as i already said the official price in europe is 1195€ although in the US its 1000$
do you think its normal??? what are the reasons ?
its only a way to make monney on our back

[MD3DNT]

maybe augusto will "ignore " me but for sure we will ignore his ripp off heli

[MD3DNT]

what will we do when we crash do we rely only on one dealer???
shall we pay double price to have a flybar or anything else
ah ah ah
thanks god our raptor are sold normally like all others heli except the AUGUSTO GOLDEN AURORA (at least sold like it was gold) :arggg:

[mudbogger2]

Here is a reply augusto gave to you on another forum. still applies here.

"We can't control pricing overseas simply because all the countries in the world charge completely different custom duties for the same products. We provide the same dealer cost to all and they decide what to charge the customers.

That being said if they are greedy and price themselves out of the market and don't sell a certain volume of kits per year they simply lose their dealership so it's in their best interest to price it so that the product moves. That is our only tool to make sure they price themselves competitively.

Another factor to consider is that their geographic location is also different so they will have very different shipping costs. For instance a product shipped to Mexico or Canada will have shipping costs that are an order of magnitude lower than the shipment costs to India for instance.

Don't make assumptions as to us controlling prices because the larger reason the prices are so different in different countries is that some governments charge outrageous dutty taxes that can vary from 5% in some cases up to 200% of the cost in others such as in some eastern european and some south american countries.

Augusto."

[WillJames]

Augusto is not the only manufacturer who is protecting his dealers, I think Synergy is the same way, it has happened before and will happen again. If I was going to fly a new heli, I would rather make sure I can damn well get parts and fast. If you dealer does not make $$ he is going to have a harder time stocking parts, it is a vicious cycle.

There is so little markup in this industry that dealing with someone who you can count on is a lot more important to me than shopping for the cheapest price.

[MD3DNT]

sorry but i don't think this explain the 400€ difference
its simply a way of controlling customers

[ClayK]

I don't know how to say it any other way.

Apparently English is not a language you understand.

We can't control pricing overseas simply because all the countries in the world charge completely different custom duties for the same products. We provide the same dealer cost to all and they decide what to charge the customers.

[mudbogger2]

We provide the same dealer cost to all and they decide what to charge the customers.


sound like you need to be complaining to the comanies selling the stuff in your area, not to a bunch of keybaord jockeys.

[MD3DNT]

i do understand perfectly well english
i do understand too when people try to fool me
the real question is why can't i buy the heli directly to the USA
i will pay of course all the taxes and the shipping cost

[ShawnK]

MD3DNT,

Please check your PM's.

[mudbogger2]

the real question is why can't i buy the heli directly to the USA


Agian a reply Augusto gave you already.

"Dealers have to support the products in their countries.
They have to buy a certain amount of inventory so that you, the consumer, can buy the spare parts locally or drive to a local store and buy the parts you need to get back in the air quickly.

A common gripe from dealers is that they make the investment and commitment to carry the products in their country and since they are forced to pay the dutties that their countries impose on them their costs are higher.

Customers buy the product overseas get the invoice written to a lower amount than what they really paid and then pass them into the country at a much lower cost than dealers have to pay because unlike a private person they are forced to pay the real dutties.

We can't base a business model based on people buying their helis overseas and illegaly avoiding the dutties that dealers are forced to pay. The real problem is the dutties imposed.

That being said if the dealer doesn't move volume they lose their dealership so they better price themselves reasonably or they'll be out of products to sell. "

[ClayK]

i do understand perfectly well english
i do understand too when people try to fool me
the real question is why can't i buy the heli directly to the USA
i will pay of course all the taxes and the shipping cost

Apparently not since you seem to be focusing on the same questions when they have already been answered.

Another person posted that Revolution Models (http://www.revolutionmodels.co.uk/acatalog/Avant.html) had them for 680. It was also told to you to wait until a distributor in France was selected, but that missed you as well.

[MD3DNT]

i just checked


Price: £680.00 £799.00 Including VAT at 17.5%
800.00 GBP
United Kingdom Pounds = 1,184.02 EUR by far more expensive than the 1000$

[ClayK]

You are correct, it was GBP not Euro. The original statement still applies though.

No distributor has been chosen for France and Augusto is not in charge of how they apply prices. If you don't want to buy the product, don't buy it. Capitalism is the rule of the day.

[Lars Blaabjerg]

What I have against the dealer excusivity is that it hampers competition. Competition is good for the consumers because it lowers prices.
If the product is attractive enough it will sell well even though the price is much higher.
Aother point: I'm not even sure that it is legal to restrict consumers in this way within the EU as it is very strict with anything that hampers competition.

[ShawnK]

To all European customers,

You're all barking up the wrong tree. Augusto/Avant has nothing to do with the pricing that European dealers have to charge for a product.

If you European customers want to complain to someone about the price you have to pay for an item, complain to your politicians about the inordinate amount of TAXES that European countries levy against their citizens. Between all the import taxes, Value Added Taxes, higher gasoline taxes (think "product transportation"), and all the other ridiculous taxes that Liberal politicians in European countries establish, it's a wonder that you don't pay $2000 for an Aurora!

It costs a fixed amount of money to manufacture an Avant helicopter. Augusto charges a certain amount to his dealer network because he deserves to make a profit for his work (this is not philanthropy, it's business!) His dealers all pay the same price. Now, what happens to you European customers once an Avant leaves the American shores is NOT Augusto's problem!

European customers can not buy an Avant helicopter from the United States because Augusto is not interested in cannibalizing his own European dealer network. If all European customers buy direct from the U.S., then there would be no need for a European dealer network, and then all you Europeans would be complaining about how you have to buy all your replacement parts from waaaaaay over in the United States. That aside, you would still have to pay ridiculous Liberal taxes, so it's hardly worth the effort. Augusto's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't!

I'm getting very tired of hearing Europeans blame everything else except themselves for the prices they have to pay for anything. You elect your own politicians, in spite of the ridiculous taxes they establish against you to promote their own self-sufficiency. Augusto is not to blame for the price of an Avant bought anywhere in Europe... your collective politicians are. So quit whining about Augusto and what you perceive to be "unfair", and do your whining at the ballot box on your next general election.

It's fine if you have complaints and concerns, but I think we're quickly nearing a point where constructive debate is coming to an end, and the thread is turning into a "Bash Avant and their business practices" thread. If the thread degenerates any further towards this end, I'm going to lock the thread. I won't sit by and listen to misplaced European bashing of American business. This forum is about "Fun, learning, friendship, and MUTUAL RESPECT"... blaming Augusto for all your problems is not respectful, nor is fun or friendly.

[MD3DNT]

wow now we have political lessons
well thanks a lot but we are only interested in heli; the way we vote concerns only our taxes and fortunatly enough not to more important stuff
it seems that this Aurora subject was at least of interest to the heli community

[ShawnK]

Yes, it is of interest, and that's fine. But as I stated to you privately, I'm not going to allow the thread to degenerate into an attack on Augusto or Avant just because people don't like the way in which Augusto has structured his dealer network. An Avant costs what it costs, and there's no point in complaining to (or about) Augusto about the cost of an Avant in Europe, because Augusto is not responsible for the price of helicopters in Europe. Like I said, if you want to complain about the prices of products in Europe, then complain to your politicians who keep raising the taxes on the items.

Augusto runs his business the way he wants. It's his choice to make, and that's all there is to it. No point in complaining about it.

If you think an Avant costs too much, then buy a less expensive helicopter.

This thread has turned from a review of the Aurora Ultimate into a complaining session about Augusto and the way he runs business.

Here's the bottom line: Enough is enough. This dead horse has been beaten for far too long. We can either redirect the thread back to it's original purpose (talking about and reviewing the Aurora Ultimate), or I'm locking the thread.

[Lars Blaabjerg]

To all European customers,
You're all barking up the wrong tree. Augusto/Avant has nothing to do with the pricing that European dealers have to charge for a product.

By enforcing local monopolies he has a very big influence on the price. That has nothing to do at all with our taxes.
And the argument for doing that is no good in my book.

[R-4-L]

I don't want to cut-in with a different subject, but to return to the main topic I have a comment. from what i'v seen this product is completely worth the wait, there is one feature that really got me banging on the walls with joy.

quote from aurora's website:

"The clutch stack uses a precision point-threaded fan hub that virtually eliminates the need to dial-indicate the fan. The Starter shaft is not attached to the clutch directly but through a one-way bearing. This prevents the starter shaft from transmitting vibrations to the frame and allows for the use of simple inexpensive starter wands."

if I got my hands on this kit, and be asked what was the feature that mostly affected my choice, that would be it. a kit thats so precise that needs not to be dial-indicated or atleast not by much!

good luck avant team.. we'll all wait and I'd personally pay more for a 1st class RC heli like this one.

[ShawnK]

I agree, it'll be a nice machine to see!

[ClayK]

Regardless, I think Lars and MD3 missed the previous points. Augusto sells the helicopter to the dealers over there (once they are selected) and the dealers in turn determine the price. I am going out on a limb here, but I believe they are listing the price higher than what they paid for it (that's simple economics, just fyi). Complaining about a dealer price is something you should be addressing to the dealer, not Augusto.

To answer Lars question, competition for pricing is a small part in determining the price of a product. Supply and demand are ultimately the driving force. There could be one dealer with 1000 kits, but if he's overcharging, don't buy it. You, the consumer make the choice whether or not the price is acceptable. More dealers means nothing really when this really basic portion of the equation is applied. If you don't like high import taxes and duties, you, the voter can determine who is in office to make such policies.

Ultimately, it boils down to this. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. I don't like the price of a Ferrari but you don't see me calling up Uncle Enzo and whining to him about the price do you? Let's put it into an analogy you can understand, since the previous one might slip past you. I don't fly turbine helicopters because they are too expensive. Not because I don't want to, but because it's financially irresponsible for me to at this point. Do I complain to Bergen or Wren or Jetcat? No. Do I want to fly a turbine? You darn spanky I do!

It's an open market and there are other helicopters you can buy. Heck, if you like Avant that much, the price should not matter to you. If it does, than that should be part of your decision making process in purchasing.

All that being said, this forum and specifically this thread are not for the discussion of economics, world markets, politics and capitalism. Since you can't comprehend the concept of the previously mentioned topics after they have been explained to you ad nauseum, you have come on here and complained to the manufacturer about something he has no control of. You've been asked to stop the nonsense. Actually, you've been asked nicely a couple times. Now, I'm telling you. This site is about helicopters and a fun, learning, friendly and respectful environment. Keep to that and everything should be fine.