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Nitrospazzz
06-23-2006, 01:01 PM
I have a Bergen Gasser EB that I am using for Aerial Photography. I am working on finishing the break in period right now but plan to strap the mount on there soon. I was wondering what paddles/weights you would recommend to slow down and stabilize the ship. I don't want to put in a ton of expo if I don't have to. If I am thinking right I need to find some real heavy paddles. If you have links to paddles on heliproz or ricks it would be very helpful. Thanks

Whirly-Girl
06-23-2006, 02:13 PM
I use V-paddles: http://www.vblades.com/gestalt/go.cfm?objectid=9C513511-C09F-1E1C-6BF3D85408CEB261

and you can get flybar weights at Rick's: http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=heli&Product_Code=KSJ508&Category_Code=

I liked the looks of those weights because they are removable. I haven't tried them yet.

Jeanette

Nitrospazzz
06-23-2006, 02:21 PM
Those are some light paddles, maybe stick with the stock paddles I have on it but get those weights. Thanks

ShawnK
06-23-2006, 03:36 PM
Another option (one I used on my EB) is stock Hirobo Freya paddles with both weights installed. They have a nice, soft center (in terms of control feel), and you can tailor the weight to your liking.

WillJames
06-23-2006, 03:37 PM
The stock paddles (IMHO) are a lot quicker than the V's if you are running the stock KSJ/K&S looking paddles. Why not run a good bit of Expo ona camera ship. Especially with a underslung mount, I would think that a good bit will be neded to help stop the pendulum effect??

ShawnK
06-23-2006, 03:52 PM
The goal is to fly it smoothly enough that you never get there anyway. You're not flying a 3D ship, you're flying a camera ship. A certain degree of smooth flying ability should be a pre-requisite.

Ideally, I'd think that the same methodology that's used in setting up an F3C machine would have quite a bit of merit for a camera ship.

DebianDog
06-23-2006, 03:59 PM
Yep weight on the flybar or a longer flybar. (I am using a 550mm one off a Tsurugi) and about 30% expo.

rkeith2
06-23-2006, 04:09 PM
Stock Bergen with 20% makes a smooth platform for me.

Nitrospazzz
06-23-2006, 04:13 PM
Ok I'll see if I can pick up some of those Freya weighted paddles and those flybar weights then add a bit of expo and see how it work. Thanks

MarkWebber
06-23-2006, 04:14 PM
Nitro

Larry says Bergen is coming out with their own weights. I had some scary pylon swirl on spool down in windy conditions. I couldn't wait for them to be ready(sorry Chris and Larry) and put some other brand on. What an improvement. My EB is still very responsive but manageable for AP. I put them at the midpoint on the flybar. I might have been better to put them all the way out, though. I might give that a go if it will quit raining here.

DebianDog
06-23-2006, 04:14 PM
But buddy is right. The better pilot you become the less you will need it ;)

Whirly-Girl
06-23-2006, 04:22 PM
But buddy is right. The better pilot you become the less you will need it ;)

:shock: I must be one slick chick then, cuz I didn't put my weights on and I flew V-paddles AND guys were standing back and commenting on the stability in hover (hands off) and the smooth, graceful FF.

:wow2:

You boys better keep practicing! :whip Just kidding! :wink:

MarkWebber
06-23-2006, 04:35 PM
Let's not be too cocky now, Jeanette :D I'm sure you'll agree that the EB can be a lively heli. As I posted, my primary concern was the chicken dance on spool down. Now having installed the weights, I can see how they help a bit for AP. So take it easy on us :oops:

BTW, have you started putting yours back together? I hope the EB withdrawls aren't too bad. :wink: We want to see more pics from you soon!

DebianDog
06-23-2006, 04:44 PM
I must be one slick chick then, cuz I didn't put my weights on and I flew V-paddles AND guys were standing back and commenting on the stability in hover (hands off) and the smooth, graceful FF.

Slick Chick? Without question.

If you are that good without them.. Imagine how impressive you would be with! :happyd

ShawnK
06-23-2006, 05:56 PM
Ahhh, Jeanette's just bragging. :mrgreen:

Whirly-Girl
06-23-2006, 07:24 PM
Ahhh, Jeanette's just bragging. :mrgreen:

Naaahhh, I just like to poke at you guys once in a while. :wink: :lol:

The rebuild on my EB is going to take a little longer than I want it to. I'm in a catch 22. I need to take pictures to get the money for repairs, but the big bird designed for taking pictures needs the repairs. :arggg: Word of advice to those who want to do AP for $: make your budget twice as much as it actually costs. :wink:

My "silent partner" won't allow the repairs just right now since we have some family activities to pay for in October. We're keeping buisiness money separate from family money so that I don't just keep pouring more and more into this without seeing the returns.

And, YEAH, I do have EB withdrawal now!!!

DebianDog
06-23-2006, 09:23 PM
so that I don't just keep pouring more and more into this without seeing the returns

Huh? You can do that? :thinking

Brady Longmore
06-23-2006, 10:07 PM
I talked to Gary Travis about if I should put expo into my EB for AP. I currently have none.

Gary's response:

" Why don't you just learn how to fly the damn thing? " :lol:

Seriously though, he's right. You will be a far better pilot in the long run if you just learn how to fly it like it needs to be flown, without relying on expo as a crutch.

MarkWebber
06-24-2006, 07:00 AM
Gary's response:

" Why don't you just learn how to fly the damn thing? "


That seems like an arrogant comment. Since he was looking to make a more stable platform for AP, I don't see how that indicates he is less of a pilot. Shoot off of a pole cam in a strong wind and you'll wonder if it could be made mores stable too. Would that mean that you don't know how to use your 'pole'? :wink:
I had expo on the tail when I first started to fly my EB. It was had alot more authority than what I had been flying. I've taken it out now but can't imagine why one wouldn't want to use what ever tools are at his disposal to do the best job possible.

DebianDog
06-24-2006, 07:45 AM
Exactly. A bug could land on your hand and make you twitch does not mean you can't fly. You want it as slow and steady as possible.

ShawnK
06-24-2006, 10:17 AM
I don't think Gary's response was intended to be arrogant. I think he's simply stating that - all other things being equal - a pilot with better skills is more able to compensate for various "shortcomings" than a pilot with lesser skills.

For example, I'll bet you any amount of money that Curtis Youngblood could hover the most hyperactive 3D model ever made better than I could hover an EB with 10 lbs. of flybar weight. It's because his skills allow him to better "read" what the machine is doing, and he has fine enough control in his fingers to allow him to compansate for movement.

Gary is not an arrogant person. Instead of assuming that his comment was meant as such, try to take a moment to consider an alternate explanation.

DebianDog
06-24-2006, 10:55 AM
True Buddy look at Alan Szabo flying the Mircon Heli in the video section. (It is about a 6 inch helicopter) He has it in a perfect hover the whole time but he is working the cyclic like crazy.

Gary is like Buddy and myself. Brutally honest. It is a + and - at times. :rolling

Whirly-Girl
06-24-2006, 11:14 AM
Gary is like Buddy and myself. Brutally honest. It is a + and - at times. :rolling

Remind me never to ask you guys how I look out at the field. :lol:


Y'all brought up some good points about responsiveness and smoothing out the controls. I like hearing everyone's view point. :thumbup:

Jeanette

Brady Longmore
06-24-2006, 03:39 PM
I don't think Gary's response was intended to be arrogant. I think he's simply stating that - all other things being equal - a pilot with better skills is more able to compensate for various "shortcomings" than a pilot with lesser skills.

For example, I'll bet you any amount of money that Curtis Youngblood could hover the most hyperactive 3D model ever made better than I could hover an EB with 10 lbs. of flybar weight. It's because his skills allow him to better "read" what the machine is doing, and he has fine enough control in his fingers to allow him to compansate for movement.

Gary is not an arrogant person. Instead of assuming that his comment was meant as such, try to take a moment to consider an alternate explanation.


EXACTLY!! He didn't mean it in an arrogant way at all. You have to remember too, he was talking to me, a total newbie. How would that turn out for me in the long run, a newbie who is just learning to fly inputing a bunch of expo to make up for lack of experience? Sounds like a recipe for disaster if you ask me. Instead he was just suggesting in his own "tactful way" :) that it'd be better for me down the road to just be the better pilot and learn how to fly as smooth as possible, and not have to rely on expo.

Gary Travis
06-24-2006, 04:43 PM
Not intended to be arrogant at all, When a new pilot gets out there for the first couple of times alot of EXPO can be a bad move. Quite often new pilots think alot of expo will hold it steady for them. When a new pilot sarts to feed input and nothing is happening, it has been my experience that he tends to yank the stick out of the expo range wich can be an issue.
On another note some like expo some don't, Anyone who has flown my machines in cluding the turbine will tell you the difference as I fly with 20% negative expo. On my Observer I have 25% negative expo and it's fine for me. Just adifference in flying style>
Gary