Blade Burned down why?????

[BeaverJamie]

I was at the local hobby shop the other day and picked up some new
li-po's for my blade. They are the recommended battery by the shop and I went on my marry way having enjoyed flying the blade I wanted a little more flying time the li-po's could give. So I bought 3 of them and 3 chargers to charge them.

First flight was yesterday I was out flying and all of a sudden my blade got out of control I couldn't stop it and augered it into the ground. I was a little bummed but I have lots of parts so I assumed that I would be back and running in no time. All of a sudden the wreckage starts to smoke alot. I had already chopped the throttle and everything and was like this isn't good. I cautiously approached it and unplugged the battery. The 4in1 unit was on fire and smoking alot and the wires to the main engine were burnt! It looks like the wires to the engine got so hot in flight that it melted them shorted out and burned up the 4in1.

Now am I missing something here the shop should have supplied me with to go with the new batteries? Did I do something wrong? Are their any suggestions i don't want this to happen again but I want to use my new batteries if I can.

This was a Stock blade with heat sinks on the main and tail rotor. Flat bottom wood blades for hovering.

[Gary JP4]

Fuses: I put fuses in line with the main and tail rotor. I use 7.5 amp automotive mini blade fuses for both. You could use smaller (probably 2.5 amp on the tail but this works for me. If you are going to smoke something you will pull more than this so I only stock one size fuse. I use these on my 2 cell DF4 and 3 cell HB CP2. Some folks solder in fuse holders and then plug in the fuses. I just solder the wires to the fuse blades. I cover the electrical conections with heat shrink and just leave the one to the main motor hanging in line. I wire tie the one for the tail motor to the frame. I have blown main motor fuses about 8 times and tail fuses a couple of times. I am sure that something would have smoked on those occasions. I first did this on a DF4 (which is even more delicate than the Blade) and also put a heat sink on the Sim's (power transistors) on that one. It only takes a second or so of power on either of the motors during a stoppage, or if something seizes up, to smoke the 4 in 1. Especially when it is already hot. Yours may have smoked in the air. With fuses they will blow instead of the 4 in 1 or a motor. This is a must IMHO. Since the 4 in 1 is the most expensive part of the bird.

Heat Sinks: I think you will find that the burned spot in your 4 in 1 case is over the SIMM’s (actually power transistors I guess). I notice the 4 in 1 gets pretty hot on my HB CP2 but the motors get so hot that I limit flight time for them to about 6 minutes so, I haven't heat sinked the SIMMs in the 4 in 1 on the HB CP2. You can get heat sinks for video chips in an electronics store and thermal epoxy them to your SIMMs in the 4 in 1. You will also have to cut a hole for them ( or it if you use one heat sink over both chips) to stick out. The hole in the case will also add cooling. Some folks cut additional holes for cooling.

I will try to post pictures of the fuses and heat sinks. I don't have them on this computer.

[BeaverJamie]

Thank you very much for the reply. So Getting back to it then, its not any fault of the battery and engine choice but its a fault of just getting to hot?

[Gary JP4]

No, I think you have to check every thing now. Motors, wires and servos. It could have been caused by burning up a motor that then shorted out. You could have had motor wires short out. Or, yes, it could have just been too much heat. You could have smoked the chips just by getting them too hot (running too long IMHO).

All of the things above could be related to too much heat in their respective areas. I run a 1300 mah 3s battery and feel like every thing gets too hot after about 5 to 7 minutes. I could run much longer than that just based on battery capacity. I can probably get at least one more 5 to 7 minute run out of that charge. I stop and touch the battery, motors, and 4 in 1. If I can't hold on to the motors I stop and let it cool off for about 15 minutes before flying again. Or, fly something else and recharge the battery. That is still probably too hot for good motor life. I think that is why they have such short life. That doesn't mean there is something inherently wrong with running that battery.

You need to see if you burned up a motor. I run in (break in) and check/test motors with 2 penlight batteries in series (3 volts). I solder a wire between the two batteries in series and solder leads off each battery for + & - and touch them to the motors while disconnected from the 4 in 1.

Check to see if wires are shorted. You can test with a volt/ohm meter and make sure they are not shorted while they are disconnected from the motors and 4 in 1.

Servos probably wouldn't cause your problem. They usually cause glitches when they fail. That is to say they cause other systems to glitch like other servos or motor cutouts. They probably wouldn't smoke a 4 in 1. You still need to check them after a crash. I just check them with the 4 in 1 New 4 in 1 in your case.

[BeaverJamie]

I guess I have tio go though the machine. I guess I was under the assumption I could fly for 20 minutes straight on the better batteries, I wasn't aware that a 20 min flight is possible but only with stopping during the time. I have kind of a bad taste in my mouth with the electric heli to be honest. I like my raptor 50 se gas charge and go. The blade definately has put a hole in my wallet with crashes and burned up parts. I have the kit plus parts and batteries I can easily say I have 800 bucks into the thing and its just sitting there now collecting dust. I guess I should have just got a t-rex in the first place. Im hoping to find a 4 in 1 cheap somewhere and get it back togeather and start enjoying it again. It does perform quite well for a little bird.

[Gary JP4]

I like it too. The thing I dislike the most is not having a HH gyro.

I have a Trex SE but warm up or try things first on the HB CP2 then fly the Trex if it happens to be togather.

I fly mostly at work indoors in an aircraft hangar, or out doors around the airport.

If I was going to the flying field I would like a Raptor too. I don't think I could get away with the Raptor at the airport aspecialy indoors but that would be pretty cool. The only one I have seen fly though is Dany Szabo on video. Wow! I think all the above mentioned electrics are cheaper to crash that the Raptor. Am I right?

I think the HB CP2 is cheaper to crash then my Trex SE but I don't have any experience crashing the Trex yet. Just working through set up problems and glitches. It sure looks nice though.

[Gary JP4]

I was thinking about how much you have in the HB CP2. Is that mostly modifications or crashes? You have flown it quite a bit. I haven't kept track of it very well now that I have three. I probably have three or four hundred in my first DF4 with an inital cost of $100. Kind of hard to say as some of that was charger, tools, etc that I planed to, and now do, use on other models and I had 5 and sold 4, one that I flew and modified for awhile. It got others started.

If you don't mind talking about it, how much do you have in the Raptor 50, or how much does it cost to operate and crash one?

[BeaverJamie]

Thanks for the positive reinforcement! I have flown my blade cp for about 30 flights. I have crashed it all 3 times inverted trying to learn inverted rolls and crashed it. I bought the blade onsale from teh rcshack.com for 199.00 US including the crash kit that comes in the box plus a spare crash kit and a set of symetrical blades ended up at like 250.00 US. Then I bought 3 batteris and chargers teh LI-PO's at 79.99 each canadian and a couple other little things so I was at 380.00 canadian so I have a few bucks into it now.

My first heli was a blade CX have had a blast with it and sold it I went right from that to a Hawk 30 which I bought used for 400 canadian plus a radio a JR whatever and a HH gyro. I took that home and self taught myself to hover and do forward flight (30 acre farm I live on) I was flying the circuit etc and enjoying it. Then I was on a trip down to the hobby store for fuel and they had a brand new raptor 50 SE there wtih Radio and 401 Gyro. It was used as a magazine heli for 1 write up and 2 tanks of fuel. I bought that for 1400.00 canadian complete running with the Futaba 9TCHP (not sure on model but its a 9c) and I took that home and flew it. The raptor I must say is 100x smoother then the hawk it is an amazing machine with that I have self taught myself to tick tock and to do forward loops. I am really impressed with it and mastered the forward roll in only 3 gallons of fuel. I have run 8 gallons so far though the raptor and I love it.

[Gary JP4]

Sounds like a lot of fun.

The little electric is probably capable of pretty long flights with brushless if you could keep the tail motor cool but I am not sure it is worth it.

[BeaverJamie]

I just got an email back from Horizon explaning that its my fault the 4in1 burned because I was running a 3 cell Li-PO with flat bottom blades on the stock motor. So I guess I am at fault with this one. :arggg:

[zooland1]

I just got an email back from Horizon explaning that its my fault the 4in1 burned because I was running a 3 cell Li-PO with flat bottom blades on the stock motor. So I guess I am at fault with this one. :arggg:
My guess is by stock motor, you mean using the 10t pinion. You have to use at least a 9t or (personal preference) the 8t with heat sinks. If you are using an 8t with heat sinks, write Horizon back and inform them that you are in compliance with their instructions and they owe you a 4-in-1. If not, yep, your screwed. I fly easily 15 minutes non-stop with my 1300's with no problem. Oh yeah, I use flat bottoms if I'm out of stock of sym blades. So that shouldn't be an issue.

[Gary JP4]

Good advice zooland. I didn't think of that. The HB CP2 already comes with a 9t pinion. I will have to try the 8t too.

[heliboy1023]

I just got an email back from Horizon explaning that its my fault the 4in1 burned because I was running a 3 cell Li-PO with flat bottom blades on the stock motor. So I guess I am at fault with this one. :arggg:

Give it to your LHS, and ask them to send it back. Normally most LHS can send whatever they want back, and get new stuff in exchange for free.

[BeaverJamie]

The LHS won't do anything for me I was already in, and they say they can do nothing. I am just using the stock engine which I guess is a 10t pinion I ordered the parts to do the aerobatic upgrade kit and such so I guess I will have to go from there. I also ordered the cool landing gear setup similar to our nitro heli's.

[BeaverJamie]

The blade is now officially dead to me. I bought a new 4in1 and aerobatic kit put it all togeather in my heli plugged in the battery and smoked the brand new 4in1. Did some checking with the multi meter and the left side servo looking at it from the tail is grounded out. As soon as I plugged the battery in with the grounded servo is smoked the 4in1 as in smoke poured out. If anyone wants a deal on some brand new li-po's chargers and a bunch of blades etc let me know.

[zooland1]

Wow, what a bummer. I did that once when I soldered the plug on my battery backwards. Needless to say, Horizon didn't replace that one either. However, it might be worth contacting them on this one. Make sure they understand it's not the same one and that you can prove it with the receipt. Make sure you don't mention that the servo was involved in the first one. Worth a shot.

[Skiddz]

The little electric is probably capable of pretty long flights with brushless if you could keep the tail motor cool but I am not sure it is worth it.

About 22 mins on my brushless setup and 1320mah 3S liPo packs. Tail motor is the weak link and on my DD setup, it gets pretty hot by the end of the pack. Worth it to go brushless? For me, definitely. For a $200 heli? Probably not, but then again, the CNC frame and the alum swash put my upgrade costs well over the cost of the entire kit. :)

[Gary JP4]

Sorry about your double loss,

I am a big proponent of fuses on the motors. They save a lot of losses like that but obviously wouldn't have helped in your case. That is pretty unusual I think. I don't even know how you would check a servo without a fancy driver. Maybe checking with just a reciever by itself would not have burned anything up.

Here are some pic's of a DF4 (similar 4 in 1)
1. Burned up
2. Replaced with heat sink, case cut out, and fuses.

[chopperdudes]

beaver jamie, where are you in ontario? if a servo is messed up, you could really kill your 4 in 1. i guess it's yoru servo, i have the same batt. only 1050mah i think. which hobby shop do you go to? i my lhs, they only sell 1320's for 60, and you can probably talk them to maybe 55 or lower. i once bought a set of cf blades and a main shaft for 36CAD at my lhs.

[carlo_the_wonder_frog]

lol

[Kushal_22]

Jamie

I just Upgraded to Seperates from a CP PRO. I have a 4in 1 I would sell you for Half Price. In Fact I will send it to you and once you get it you can paypal me...If you want.

Regards
Mal
One thing though on my 4 in 1 it says 3 in 1 buuuuuuuuuuuut it has come from a CP PRO and i was running 3S1P 800MAH E-Flite lipos on it. This Unit is pretty much NEW it might have 30 Mins on it at most.