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View Full Version : Kontronik Pyro 30-12 first tests


cbdane
05-24-2009, 07:24 PM
In a recent thread I introduced you to my new 700E conversion.

My new 700E flybarless - HeliFreak


I started out with the Scorpion 4035-500 motor and as I reported, it worked great; good power, excellent efficiency with long flight times. The only concern that I had was that, even with the low timing setting in my CC HV110, it ran quite hot. It wasn't touchable at the end of a flight, reaching temperatures of around 160F.

Chris from Heli-Chris.de pointed out in an interesting post in my 700E conversion thread that he was using the Kontronik Pyro 30-12 510 rpm/V motor very successfully and it ran very cool. The temptation was more than I could manage so I ordered one up from ReadyHeli (thanks for the t-shirt guys!!).

It's a bit larger than the Scorpion but it fits beautifully into the Heli-Chris electric conversion frames and with its 6mm shaft, the 11T M1.0 pinion (115T M1.0 main gear) switched right over. One thing that I immediately noticed is that the stator is wound with very heavy wire rather than the many turns of smaller gauge wire in the Scorpion. I'm not sure what this means and in my ignorance, might have guessed that the Scorpion approach is more labor intensive and might work better (not so, see results below). Also, there is almost no cogging; it spins very freely, even with the output leads shorted together. I really like where the manual said that no maintenance is ever required to the bearings (Scorpion requires that you lube every 4-5 flights). However, I was concerned where they recommend that it only be used with the Kontronik Jazz 80HV ESC.

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98594&d=1243210496

I installed it into my 700E and after an initial flight I found that the same curves that were giving me ~2050rpm (fresh pack) now increased the head speed to ~2350. It looks to me that the kV rating on the Pyro is a little underestimated. Anyway, no problem, now I could activate the governor mode on my HV110 with the new V2 software. I set up the three rpm's to 1600, 1850, and 1950. It worked great and I had a couple of good flights. The data log from one of those is shown below:

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98595&d=1243210496

However, looking the E-logger data, I saw very strong current modulation at about 5 cycles/second (need to expand time scale to resolve). I had set the gain on the CC governor to medium (25). Today, I lowered it to 20 and the current oscilation disappeared completely, as can be seen in the following plots. The RPM regulation is even better and the current trace is quite clean, free of the high-frequency hash in the first one. Notice also that the efficiency increased, dropping the mAh used (similar flight profile) by over 200mAh. All this from a small tweak in the governor gain. This is why a data logger is so important in my opinion. Without it, I would never have seen this undue stress being placed on the speed control.

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98596&d=1243210496

You'll notice that the CC governor is amazing, holding very precisely to the 1850 target speed. In the second plot, I increased the normal rpm from 1600 to 1700 for landing. As can also be seen from the temperature log, the motor is not even what I would call warm. I am hopeful that it provides me the many hundreds of successful flights that I have enjoyed on my 6S 600E (around 500 with the same motor).

I hope that my experience with this motor is useful to someone.

Added in edit: I reread my post and what I intended to say is 500 flights without changing the motor on the 600E, not the same Pyro 30-12 from this post (I'm running the Neu 1515/2.5D/H/F). Sorry for any confusion.

rcman
05-27-2009, 12:09 PM
I am glad someone over here in the state finnaly tried one of these motors, I wanted to try one but had to many other motors that I am playing with right now. After looking over your charts I am going to order one as well for my Suzi-hans frame set

Thank

David Olsen

Big Fil
06-08-2009, 02:33 PM
Nice cbdane, had that motor not been soo expensive I would have ran one in my Logo 600. Maybe at some point down the line i'll give it a go. I'm running the Xera and also noted very large windings. I'm guessing this may be part of the key to really efficient motors, but not sure.

miglis
06-08-2009, 03:16 PM
loads of usefull info here!!!!
i am under the impression that you can have a lot more higher headspeed something like 2200 on your 700e, just wondering....

cbdane
06-08-2009, 05:59 PM
loads of usefull info here!!!!
i am under the impression that you can have a lot more higher headspeed something like 2200 on your 700e, just wondering....

Oh yeah. 2200 without even breaking a sweat. Check out posts by GenReaper. He's running a flybarless 700E similar to mine at 2250+. I love the 7-8 minute flight times but you can really crank it up if you'd like.

Big Fil
06-08-2009, 06:03 PM
Don't forget to check out Tim Jones 700E "The Beast" video. I heard he is at 2300 or 2400 rpm. 8HP is a wicked sounding thing.


http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=finless/funflys/bakersfield2009&filename=tjbeast.wmv

helicraze
06-08-2009, 09:21 PM
So does the scorp or pyro feel more powerfull? I posted a question a while ago but never really got an answer.

Shawn says in his logo 600 with the pyro it bogged up easier than the scorpion, he stuck with the scorpion

cbdane
06-08-2009, 10:19 PM
So does the scorp or pyro feel more powerfull? I posted a question a while ago but never really got an answer.

Shawn says in his logo 600 with the pyro it bogged up easier than the scorpion, he stuck with the scorpion

Hard to say since I had tuned both to the same headspeed; they felt pretty even to me. However, if you compare my e-logs, the Pyro definitely responded quicker to loads and peaked at higher currents. Also, the Pyro runs very cool. That electrical power that heats the Scorpion has to be going somewhere (presumably into more power to the rotor) since the average current draw and flight times are quite similar. All of this said, though, I really didn't notice a big difference.

helicraze
06-08-2009, 10:38 PM
I just wonder because i may convert my Logo 700 to 12S, not because it lacks power but to keep same pack for both helis.

Its just that it will add 200grams and i like the idea of piro but do not really want to take a step back with performance.

JJ101
06-24-2009, 07:05 PM
Don't forget to check out Tim Jones 700E "The Beast" video. I heard he is at 2300 or 2400 rpm. 8HP is a wicked sounding thing.


http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=finless/funflys/bakersfield2009&filename=tjbeast.wmv



That was just sic - :thumbup:





JJ :shock: