HELP--Uncontrollable glitching/lockouts on new Lepton

[Gscott]

I'm having some serious issues with my Lepton. I have already had one bad crash due to a lockout and I'm out of ideas. I'm running a Castle HV45 with the Medusa 2amp 6v BEC. I have ferritte rings on the leads from the BEC and the ESC. I've tried running the ESC under the receiver tray (on top of the metal tray) and now in the factory position. The BEC is mounted up front under the metal tray. I've even replaced the Revolution base load antenna. Nothing works. I'm even using a JR 790 PCM receiver. At this point the heli is unflyable. I have some pics in my Helifreak gallery at http://www.helifreak.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=9991.

Any ideas?

[mudbogger2]

When does the glitching occur? at power up? spool up? or?

First thing I would do is ditch the revolution antenna and put the full length one back on. Easy and free. Whip antennas are glitch magnets.

Next move the BEC and ESC as far away from the RX as possible.

[jeffg]

Did you use the chokes included with the Medusa BEC? MAybe a ferrite ring on the BEC is not enough.

On my heli using a G3 receiver, adding a ring on the Speed control servo lead was enough to stp the hold problem. Before that, I had no range at all.

Ask Jeremy at RC Hover about these chokes.

Can you put the BEC on the right side of the heli just in front of the main gear. Basically opposite of the speed control?

Jeff

[Finless]

Wierd...... I am running a G3 RX and Medusa 2A BEC and I didnt have a ring so I still dont have one on there. I have flown the letpon 12 times now with no hint of a lockout. I plan to put a ring on I just didnt have an extra. That being said........

So let me throw up a few ideas.
1) Maybe 2 amp is not enough? What servos, etc are you running?
2) Might be the ESC? not saying CC is a bad product or anything but maybe its noisy? I am running an Align 75 and that same medusa so something there? Maybe your ESC has a noise problem? Can you try something else?
3) I agree with mudbogger on the antenna. Try going back to a full antenna.

Bob

[aaronredbaron]

I had a revolution whip ant on a sceadu that kept locking out on me, I fought it and fought it, it would act fine as long as it wasn't running, but the second I started it, it went into fail safe. In the end I found it was the connector on the antenna, I soldered it directly and it was fine, ever since I NEVER use those connectors on any whip antenna, I always solder them together, and I have never had any more problems. good luck :wink:

[Gscott]

Well I'm about ready to punt this thing. I've moved the ESC under the heli and it still locks out. I've built and flown Logos, T-Rexes, Swifts, Sceadus, Raptors, etc... and never had this much glitching. I've now had 4 bad crashes that would have cost me 2-3 sets of carbon frames, skids, and now a set of blades and who knows what else. All from just hovering.

My BEC did not come with any chokes or anything. The receiver and antenna worked fine in a Swift and a T-Rex. I went with the Revolution because I had bad glitches on the T-Rex with the regular antenna. I've tried 2 different ESC's (both HV45's since that's all I have) with no luck.

Anyone keeping score at home I would easily be in for over $400 in parts already and I haven't even been beyond a hover. The only thing saving me is the crappy patch job I've done on the frame but even with that I'm easily looking at over $200 now just to get this airborne again only to see it lockout and crash again :arggg:

[TMoore]

I had a similar experience with a TRex although I used a Dual Conversion FM RX and then later switched to a Single Conversions unit. Would you mind posting some photos of the current setup so that we might see what you are currently working with?

TM

[RyanW]

I had a little problem with lockout, but once I moved the external BEC away from the rx, all was well. Also check how the antenna is routed (once you go with the full length- stock version). I wouldn't bundle it with any other wires on the way out. Let us know how it goes.
-Ryan

[Gscott]

I uploaded 4 new pics of the current config. They are in my gallery.

[TMoore]

I uploaded 4 new pics of the current config. They are in my gallery.

First of all and BTW the pics are very helpful, the ferrites won't work with just a wire looped through them. You will need to take as much of the lead that you can and wind the lead through the ferrite core and if necessary you might even use a short extension. In effect, you want to create a mini choke that won't feed noise back to the RX.

I know you don't want to hear this but lose the antenna and temporarily go back to a 39" wire. This will eliminate the RX whip antenna.

Try to keep the gyro wires from the sensor box to the RX and the SX wires outside of the frames and as far away from the metal and carbon as you can. It sounds impossible but don't intertwine the servo and gyro wires through the carbon frames, keep them on the outside.
Try not to let any wiring or ferrite rings touch the mag center crutch. This would drive a RX nuts.

Can you tell me what the blue tape is next to the RX?

Take the SX wires and bring them up and out of the center of the frames and directly into the RX. Arrange them so that you can use some velcro to tie them off and arrange this with some strain relief.

Try to put the ESC on one side of the model and the BEC on the other side and keep the battery wire sticking straight out so that the wire won't touch the frames.

With the cracked carbon frames there is a possibility that even more RFI is being generated than is usual for this model

I'm sure you don't want to hear this but I'm going to use an FM RX in mine and you might want to try it in yours to help diagnose the RFI issues you are having.

TM

[Finless]

Right on Terry.... Just saw this and I cant agree more with what you are reccomending!

Hirobo puts the ESC on the side for a reason... It's CF frames and I think the area they have chosen was decided for a reason and that was to help reduce EME to the RX. I went with this location myself and it WORKS!

Bob

[Laurens]

- Put the controller and BEC further away from the Rx
- The Deans in in parallel with the carbon frame. Let is point away.

[Gscott]

Thanks for all the advice. Problem is the ESC was already tried in the factory location and the glitching was worse. The gyro wires are currently running outside the frame and are wrapped in the plastic spiral wrap. That was their original location and haven't been moved. The blue tape is simply masking tape that I used to label the servo wires with. All of my servo wires are currently outside the frame. the only one that appears to be coming from inside the frame is the lead from the ESC. It is running from the ferritte ring which is resting on the mag center frame. I can move that. I'll try replaing the antenna but at this point I'm at a crossroads. The heli is currently unflyable since the last crash broke the blades. I'm looking at over $200 to fix this thing when I can finally get parts. I sent Jeff a message a few days ago regarding parts but have not received a response. I must say at this point I'm not very happy with this heli.

[TMoore]

I must say at this point I'm not very happy with this heli.


I understand but it's not the helis fault. There is a combination of things at work here and we need to track down the issue and fix them one by one.

TM

[Gscott]

Terry,

I know but it's very frustrating since I have built and flown a number of electrics but never had this much trouble. I've read your suggestions but I have a few questions.

1.) To go back to the normal antenna wire do I simply cut off the connector for the whip and solder on the replacement antenna or is it more involved than that?

2.) If I place the BEC on the opposite side as the ESC then it will be very near the gyro and tail servo wires. It will also be on the same side the antenna comes out. Is that okay?

3.) I purchased some of the RF chokes from RC Hover. Do I out them on the ESC and BEC leads or just the ESC?

Thanks.
Gary

[Finless]

Gary,
Here is my 2 cents looking at your pictures.

Look at my gallery and see how I have things arrainged.

1) The motor is extremely noisy. Get the gyro wires farther away from the motor. I ran mine not along the side low but up top inside the frame.
2) Shorten the ESC to motor wires! The longer they are the worse these problems can be. Put the ESC in the stock location and shorten the wires.
3) Put the BEC on the other side near the open slot down low.

Believe it or not I am not even using a ferrite ring! But you put it on the ESC to RX throttle lead. You need 5 wraps of this lead around the ring.

Bob

[aaronredbaron]

have you tried geting rid of the connector to the whip antennea? If you wiggle the connector is there any free play? when my setup was going into lockout, I coulld not get it to give me any indication of problems until I ran the engine, any vibration made it lock out. Getting rid of the whip altogether as suggested would be the other thing I would try at this point.

[TMoore]

Just for this test take the disconnect off of the pigtail that is sticking out of the RX case and replace it with the wire that you cut off and shrink some covering over it. If this is the trick you can replace the antenna properly.

Bob is right with his suggestions. PCM RX's are real touchy to diagnose because they give you no clue as to what is happening. For example if the first channel on your RX is the throttle channel and you are getting hit, at least an FM RX will show hits on the throttle channel and likewise for elevator or aileron. With PCM, how do you know?

TM

[Gscott]

Terry,

I borrowed a FM receiver from a friend. How do I go about tracking down the glitch? Thanks.

Gary

[TMoore]

You put it in and go fly.

If you are getting hit really bad you will know it. This is a sign that there is something in the heli that is creating a hell of a lot of noise. Chances are that a really big hit will scare the crap out of you or in the case of a PCM send the RX into full lockout and crash the machine. If you are getting hit before the machine even gets off of the ground chances are that there is a lot of noise being generated. You need to try and track this down. In my experience this can be caused by wire routing, improperly grounded components, intermittent contacts, metal to metal contact or cold solder joints. The causes are all over the map.

If you can get the heli off of the ground and it hovers with an occassional glitch the chances are that rearranging the locations of the ESC, BEC or antenna will help solve the issues. A ferrite will help if it is properly done.

When I first started flying a plastic 450XL TRex my Double Conversion RX from ATX was glitching big time and it took a Ferrite ring, rearranging the location of the BEC and the antenna to solve the issue.

Once you get your Lepton glitch free you can probabaly install your PCM RX with impunity and have no issues.

TM

[vksy]

I noticed a possible source of glitching that may be worth looking into. The metal pin of the tail control clevis extends past the white housing just a little bit and rubs against the tail gear box even with the smallest amount of pressure. Check the gear box for any linear scratch marks.

[ethinger]

mine went down today :arggg:
heli didnt have enough pitch while inverting.... it flew fine the flight before... :?
where do you guys get parts? that are available now?

[Finless]

I had heard they were coming in this week.
Give MRC a call 800 333 3692.

Bob