ION-X And Emoli's - The Answer appears to be YES

[rfaster]

Well I asked this question a month or so ago thinking that I would pick up an Ion-X if I could find a more affordable battery setup. I have been running the Emoli's on a Swift for several months with good results so I was a bit surprised when I was not able to find anyone who had tried to run them on the Ion-X. It makes sense in some regards since a lot of folks buy the Ion to do 3D and the heavier emoli's may not fit the ticket. I went ahead and picked up the ION planning to run 2 sets of Evo 3700's that are in fact due in this week new formula even :D (Thanks Bobby).


EMOLI TESTING -
Bottom line - So far it looks like the 10S2P 6K emoli's will make for a good 10 minute sport flying setup. I'm very excited about this setup and plan to continue to test and log the results to see how the packs stand up over cycles.

Note - I have just started testing this setup (3 flights so far) -

Setup -Ion-X, Neu 1521, Hacker 70 and 50 tooth - Rotortech 700's
10S2P Emoli Packs wired with TP balancers

10 minute flight - Head Speed was 1880 -
(Thx to Fritz for reviewing the elogger reports)
Motor Max temp - 169
ESC Max Temp - 138
Cum mAH Max - 4810
Amps: MMax 37.4, Avg 23.4
Watts: Max 1327

I have posted 2 of the data logs below - the 8 minute is the first flight and the 10 minute was the 2nd. Also posted is the 10 cell emoli Thunder Power wiring diagram. This did not exist or was not posted so we created it and hope it helps folks that want to charge their emoli 10's with TP! I'll post some pics of the batteries - and of the Ion-X w/out canopy shortly.

Please comment on the Graphs - looking for FEEDBACK!

[arrio]

Hey that's great news. :clappp Thats what I was hoping to hear. :thumbup:

I'll be assembling my Moli 10s2p packs this week.

[arrio]

10 moli cells calculate to 35.3 ounces. (100 grams each) For pack weight add shrink and connectors.
My Tanic 10s3p 7350 packs weighed 29 ounces each. (Two 5s3p)

[WillJames]

SWEET information guys!! Thanks for sharing and keeping us posted!!

[rfaster]

Emoli Reference Info - Since there are no "official" specs for these cells folks that have used them are calling them- 10 to 15 C 2800-2900 Mah.

At 15C - that's a max of 43 AMPS - In the 10 minute flight graph my max was 37.4 - with average of 23. On the next flights I will do some more aggressive climb-out's to see if the 37 max I was seeing is really going to be my max for sport flying.

THE GOAL :glasses2: is to show that a sub $300 pack of Emoli's can provide 10 minutes of sport flying over a period of cycles - a VERY LARGE barrier to ENTRY will have been broken! I imagine that a lot more folks would step up to the Ion-X or other 90 size E heli's if they could use a proven emoli setup.

[WillJames]

THE GOAL is to show that a sub $300 pack of Emoli's can provide 10 minutes of sport flying over a period of cycles - a VERY LARGE barrier to ENTRY will have been broken! I imagine that a lot more folks would step up to the Ion-X or other 90 size E heli's if they could use a proven emoli setup.


EXACTLY!! THANK YOU VERY much for taking it upon yourself to do this testing. The Ion-X is the finest flying heli I have ever owned and it would be GREAT to see a viable Emoli setup for people to get into the Ion-X with!!

Bravo!! Thank you!! :glasses2: :noteworthy :noteworthy :noteworthy :noteworthy

[rfaster]

Will - do you happen to have any graphs "Elogger" flying the Evo 20 3700's? I too have 2 sets of the New Forumla that Bobby shipped on Friday - hope to have this week and will fly and Elogg. Interested to see what the MAX amp is - or how far over the 45 it goes with sport fly - VS 3D.

Also - would have loved to fly the tanic BIG packs that you sold -- wonder how they would compare to the 10S2P emoli setup in terms of power. I need to put this thing on a scale to see what my all up weight is -- I'm guessing 12+??

[WillJames]

Unfortunately I do not have an inflight monitor. I have a CBA2 and I sent another CBA2 to B a few months ago.

[rfaster]

Well - I'll fly - and log the Evo's as soon as they arrive! Will be interesting to see what the new forumla does...

[BobbySmith]

COOL nice looking canopy :glasses2:

[arrio]

rfaster: You shared with us the balancer setup for the 10s. Is this to say that you are running a pair of 10s1P packs? Or do you have two 5s2p packs? I will have to run a pair of 5s2p packs as I use the Astro 109's to charge my packs. Limit 9s packs. Not that it matters terribly. Just curiouse.
Also, great info with the datalogger :thumbup:. Many thanks to you. :noteworthy
Like you I think the levels look good so far and show great promise. I hope to pick up a data logger outfit (EagleTree) sometime soon. Interesting to explore this new facet of RC helicopters.

[rfaster]

Bobby - thought you might recognize it - Nice paint job by the way... You see how I did not zoom in - wanted to avoid the crack :shock:

arrio - I'm running 2 10 stick packs - it balances great and since I wont be using these packs in anything but Ion's I figured it would be less connectors - and easier to just stack. I'm making 6 5S emoli packs now for use with my Rex 600 - and may later decide to use them on the Ion - 2 on each side. I added some pics above - take a look.

[misskimo]

hey , yeh I got 28 of these cells laying around in stick form that I did 3 months ago , didnt have time , thinking about selling them , got to many lipo packs, (packs sold)

[arrio]

raster: Ok, I see you have several of the "good" charger(s). You can charge 10s. I'll have configure mine as 5s2p.

When a pair of cells in 2p config are together they should act as one cell and balance together, correct?

So I would lay out one edge of a 10 count pack as ++ -- ++ -- ++, and solder the like poles together. Then wire the TP balance taps as a 5S arreangement. ? Does this sound correct?

[Hotwings]

could you please show the wiring for two 5 cell packs, ie: can you move the - wire to the next cell as the 10 cell pack has two neg connections i the first 5 cells? thanks Ron :noteworthy

[rfaster]

arrio -
Yes - if you choose to charge 2 5 cell packs in parallel - your charger would see them as 1 5 cell pack with 2X the mah. Btw - on your Tanic batteries - sorry to hear about this. I was going to buy some used "So many on the forums for sale these days..." so I called Brian and asked him about them - he said the new forumla cells are night/day better and would not bother with the older cells. Even though used they are selling for 40 percent off - he said they would have to be 80 percent off to have any value. I ended up going with the Evo 20's - new formula and plan to run these back to back with the Emoli 10S2P setup with an E-logger to see the results (max amp draw, temp etc...)

HotWings -

5 cells uses the 6 pin TP tap, start with the black on the negative discharge connection and then just stair step the remainder ending on the red at the positive discharge connection. I'll be building some very soon so I'll post my results. If you wire them up and they work please let me know!! I don't always like to be first :lol:

[Wild Moose]

Will - do you happen to have any graphs "Elogger" flying the Evo 20 3700's? I too have 2 sets of the New Forumla that Bobby shipped on Friday - hope to have this week and will fly and Elogg. Interested to see what the MAX amp is - or how far over the 45 it goes with sport fly - VS 3D.

Also - would have loved to fly the tanic BIG packs that you sold -- wonder how they would compare to the 10S2P emoli setup in terms of power. I need to put this thing on a scale to see what my all up weight is -- I'm guessing 12+??

The Evo20's pump out good power and will easily handle greater than 45A peak loads.

This data graph depicts two flights on a 6S ship, both pack configurations are with the 3700 cell size, 6S1P and 6S2P. Chart was truncated for clarity but 3D flights between 5-9 minutes (respectively) are easily achieved with reserve left in the packs. The 6S1P pack was intentionally flown until it dumped, flight time was close to 7 minutes.

[crcflyer14]

I have a question? could you try to run the ion on a 10s1p and see how the cells handle it? Seems to me it should work and work well, just drop the flight time to 5-6 mins,??/????
But it would also drop battery cost to sub 200, and that would be CRAZY,.,,,

maby with the weight drop the amp draw may decrease enough to work out?

Just a thought and I am tring to get my hands on some emiols as I type to try this out as well, thanks for the info.....

Chad

[misskimo]

hey , should work , just really hard on the packs , but all you would need to do is drop the pitch to 9 degrees to help the packs out as much as you could ,

[rfaster]

Well I just made up some 5S Emoli's for the Trex 600 - never thought about running just 10S - but it might be worth a try! I agree it would be quite a bit harder on the packs...

the 10S2p setup is providing a good 10 minues and the packs come out Mild Warm.

I ran my new forumula EVo 20 3700's the other day for the first time... and "WOW" - all I had it to compare to was running the emoli's so not sure if its "W O W" - or just wow. In any event the heli seems much lighter and I'm guessing I went from 1880 - to 1980 head speed. I have 2 sets of the evo's and hope to do some more comparisions.

I'd love to know how the emoli 10S2P's - compare flight wise/performance with the TP8000's bench mark setup. Perhaps I can convice Fritts to make up some emoli's :D

[FrittsLogic]

You know, I've actually been toying with the idea of making a 12S or 14S 1p emoli pack in order to keep the battery side amp draw down. A 10s1p pack should handle the Ion just fine, so long as you fly it GENTLY. A 1p pack should be kept below 45 amps, it's very easy to push past that number, even if you don't do 3D. Unfortunately, I just sold my HV ESC, the Schulze, to fund some evo 20C 3700's of my very own. If someone wants to send me another HV esc, I've got the extra emolis to try it!!

[misskimo]

hey , got a schulze 40-160 up for grabs , 400 shipped

[rfaster]

Well Crcflier -- how about a $130 5 to 7 minute 10S1P Emoli? I ran the Evo 3700 NF's back to back yesterday with the 10S1P emoli setup. The emoli's looked good for the 5 minute flight but came down pretty warm. The FDR below - shows 1st flight on my 3700's - then 10S1P emoli's - then 3700's. I'm only on my 1st and 2nd cycles of the 3700's - thus the 4 minute flights (break-in).

EMOLI -10S1P - 5 minutes - only put back 1600 into each - I'll try it again today and this time run the FDF temp guage on the battery so we can get some real-time readings --- and I'll have my IR gun there for backup.

EDIT - Flew 2nd time on the 10S1P's - recorded Temp of 120 after 5 minute basic ff fight - figure 8's piro etc... Put 1900 back into the packs I'd guess that with 7 minutes 2400-2500 would go back.

[arrio]

I now have a couple flights on my ION with a 10s2p Moli pack and stock hacker motor and Esc. It flys "ok", but heavy. Simple aerobatics loops rolls etc seem ok but strugles a bit with a large diameter loops. Rolls are a bit floppy because of the added weight.
My normal flights average around the 5-6 minute mark and I am putting about 3500ma back into the packs. Charge times are quick at about 30 minutes.

I am wanting to reconfigure the packs to an 11s or 12s setup, single set. I have a CC110 Esc for that.

I am hopeing that with the added voltage, the current will drop somewhat, and with the lighter packs (as opposed to 2p) it would be good 3d performance for about 6 min.

Question I have is, will the Stock Hacker motor handle 12s?

[rfaster]

I would like to know how the 10S2P Emoli Flys Compared to the 8k TP setup. From what I understand the Tp 8000 setup Flys heavy-especially Compared to the EVo 2o's. Wondering Why you are only Flying 5 to 6 Minutes -I fly 10 to 12 on the emol 10S2p Setup.



ste="arrio"]I now have a couple flights on my ION with a 10s2p Moli pack and stock hacker motor and Esc. It flys "ok", but heavy. Simple aerobatics loops rolls etc seem ok but strugles a bit with a large diameter loops. Rolls are a bit floppy because of the added weight.
My normal flights average around the 5-6 minute mark and I am putting about 3500ma back into the packs. Charge times are quick at about 30 minutes.

I am wanting to reconfigure the packs to an 11s or 12s setup, single set. I have a CC110 Esc for that.

I am hopeing that with the added voltage, the current will drop somewhat, and with the lighter packs (as opposed to 2p) it would be good 3d performance for about 6 min.

Question I have is, will the Stock Hacker motor handle 12s?[/quote]