E-Sky HB King ...

[SkyUp]

After a considerable amount of searches and forum reading, I have concluded that this may be the best micro/mini for me.

Here is my reasoning ...

For the price, I doubt I can find a more stable heli that has potential to upgrade.
Parts are relatively cheap (No LHS anywhere near my home and I do all hobby shopping online).
Other than some reports of tail vibrations on earlier models, people seem to love flying them.
Cost is close to that of the Blade CP or HB CP2.

Here's the hitch ...

I'm new to RC and have never flown a Micro/Mini helicopter.
I will get a simulator, but need a controller first.
I'm a quick learner with good spacial orientation, I work and think in 3-D since I'm a draftsman and do some of my work in 3-D (it forces one to think in terms of constant reorientation).

Question:

Am I nuts for wanting to start out with the King, I think I would get bored pretty quick if I got a FP and just can't handle the look of the coaxials?

I could go for the CP2 but would really appreciate the look and stability of flight of the King ... In all videos I've seen, they are so smooth in flight and realistic looking.

Thanks for your thoughts ...

[reman]

Hi there, The king is a good Helli, the only prob I can see is that of parts. there have been some major delays in getting the kits in England and parts are scarce. also the website at www.esky-sz.com has been down for a long time. all this may just be me being paranoid but I wouldn't want to buy a Helli with no spares backup.

Don't be to quick to dismiss coaxials, it's a very cheap way into the hobby. fot the price of a decent sim you can get a rtf Helli that even when its raining outside you can still practice nose in ( or cat chasing :lol: ) indoors and its more fun than a computer game. (also if you get bored of Helli's, its not a huge outlay to leave and forget)

Alternatively,

Have you thought about the TWISTER 3D EXPERT or the Hummingbird elite 3d pro, there about the same size, just as stable and won't cost much more to kit out (most websites offer them as kits of all you need except the TX)

when i got into the hobby ( around a year ago ) i tried to cut corners with kit, getting the cheapest TX, Rx and gyro I could find. all i ended up doing was crashing a lot due to radio problems and the cost of blades and booms soon adds up (If, like me, the bug bites deep, it can get very pricey (as i look around the room I see my modded e-sky lama, a short boom t-rex xl-se hybrid, a ms composites hornet with revised servos, gyro and Rx mounting and a fixed pitch twister clone) one day I will work out how much of my minimum wage went on Helli's) so if you get cheap kit it tends to work out expensive in the long run.

[SkyUp]

Some good things to think about Reman, I'm in the research stages now, so am open to lots of possibilities. I'll check out the models that you suggest and try to keep an open mind. I like the idea of a kit, it would be a lot of fun researching the parts, putting it together and knowing that baby inside out before taking to the air.

I suppose a good way to go might be to just start listing all the features I like and keep reading what experienced flyers have and like about their micros.

Thanks for your input ... (from a somewhat overwhelmed beginner) :lol:

[L0stS0ul]

I'm a big fan of the E-Sky King. It's a very stable platform but while it looks cost effective there really are a few upgrades that need to be done to it for it to fly well.

First the stock motor runs VERY hot. Some people have reported that the motor has gotten so hot that it has actually caused the solder to melt. Canopies are known to melt very easily as well.

Second I don't know what they were thinking putting the CP2 landing skids on this heli. Way to fragile for it. Luckily for $12 you can get the super landing skids and that solves that problem.

For the motor issue the best bet is to go brushless. I flew mine on the stock motor for about 2 weeks before I upgraded. The stock motor is only really good for hovering and some forward flight. Anything else and it can't handle it. For a beginner that is probably ok as you'll be spending the majority of your time hovering but just be aware that in order to really get the full effect out of this heli a brushless motor like the JustGoFly 400DH is needed. It's also mandatory to get 2 of the main motor heat sinks for the stock brushed motor. That will lengthen life a bit but does not fully solve the problem.

Parts support is no longer an issue here in the states. Hobby-Lobby, BPHobbies, Helidirect, and several others now all carry the heli and all the spare parts for it. I personally use helidirect and BPHobbies the most. BP is my favorite.

I really like mine, Very nice flying helicopter.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2277786547487986270&hl=en

[reman]

must say the t-rex canopy looks like it was always suposed to be there + very nice paint job on it

[SkyUp]

must say the t-rex canopy looks like it was always suposed to be there + very nice paint job on it

I agree Reman, that's a fine looking canopy ... good job LOstSOul!

By the way, I really appreciate your feedback, both of ya!

I'm getting this narrowed down, even though I'm tempted by the Falcon 3D (a lot of nice features, but not as much information out there to make a reliable decision, IMO), right now I leaning on getting the E-Sky HB aKing Barebones for $128 and going from there.

I figure the following list is flexible, but I need to keep the cost to something I can talk the wife into ... she very supportive of my hobbies etc , but realistic when it comes to saving for these things ... I just want to get into this hobby as I think it's so cool. I've always enjoyed flight and never gotten into RC, but think it's time ... a heli is the only way to go as far as I'm concerned. :wink:

Motor: 400DB 3200KV Brushless Outrunner $28
8T Pinion $5

Receiver: ? (maybe find a package of TX, RX and crystals)

Servos: H55's on Swash (not sure how many I need) $?? H50 on Tail $23

ESC: ? (20A maybe???)

Gyro: Heading Hold (Can't afford the GY240) maybe the Telebee

TX: Optic 6 $135 or Airtronics RCD6000 SUPER FM 6CH72C (if I can find it on sale when I purchase)

Battery: Two 11.1V 1320mAh

Spares: Main Blades, Tail blades, Main Shaft, Main or Tail Grips?

Skids: (I'll get the beefed up skids ... $22?)

Total: (don't know yet)

Training Wheels (might be a good idea)

Simulator ... I'll probably just learn by doing it ... I may change my mind after a few crashes ... I'll just take it slow and one step at a time



If you can help me fill in my list, it would be greatly appreciated :D

[JohnK]

I just got my King a couple weeks ago and haven't been too fast in the learning stages of this thing. I've only flown fixed wing planes, cars & boats. This is all totally new to me.

Is the stock Esky gyro no good? Are there other important parts that I should change before getting too discouraged with the stock stuff? Where's the best place to get all these parts? If you've got any pointers, please let me know them!

Thanks!

[SkyUp]

I just got my King a couple weeks ago and haven't been too fast in the learning stages of this thing. I've only flown fixed wing planes, cars & boats. This is all totally new to me.

Is the stock Esky gyro no good? Are there other important parts that I should change before getting too discouraged with the stock stuff? Where's the best place to get all these parts? If you've got any pointers, please let me know them!

Thanks!

Hi John -

I'll let the experienced folks answer your questions on what's needed and whats not, but with me it's just a matter of either buying the King RTF or Barebones and building it. From what I've read here and a few other forums is that the stock brushed motor tends to get quite hot after sustained flight and that the landing gear is probably best replaced with heavier duty gear. I would imagine that a $3-4 heatsink might be worth investing in initially and perhaps a brushless motor down the road a bit.
Of course if you get a brushless, you'll need to get a brushless ESC for it too. My thought on the gyro is that I'm in the same boat as you and have never flown a heli. If there's anything that can make it easier and less hassle then I need the edge. I'm curious to hear what others have to say about the gyro too.

From what I've heard, the King is a pretty nice machine but does have some room for improvement. I'm also in the process of finding what's best and want to put the best that I can afford on from the start via the barebones kit (but I actually still haven't ruled out getting the RTF King and making some improvements as I learn the machine and see how it works for me)

Hopefully others will chime in and give us the scoop on recommended upgrades and describe what's necessary and what's just really nice to have ...

Good luck with yours and I would imagine that it's fine out of the box to get started while learning to hover. At least you're used to using a Transmitter with your other RC ventures ... I bet you'll get the hang of the heli pretty quick.

[L0stS0ul]

Thanks for all the kind words :)

I've been looking at the falcon as well. Looks like a very nice setup for $300 but your right. Not many people yet have looked at it. The 2 reviews I've seen though have been very favorable.

as for what to get on the king... Here's what I have:

Motor: JustGofly 400DH on an 8 tooth pinion (Head Speed ~2200rpm)

Speed Controller: JustGoFly MMM 22 (very nice simple speed controller)

Servos for Swash: 3 HS-55 servos with standard arms.

Servo for the Tail: 1 HS-50 is a good bet as it's very light and very fast. I've got a S-75 right now and I am not happy with it.

Receiver: I'm using a GWS R6NII in it and I don't have any issues.

battery: ThunderPower 1320mAh 11.1v Prolite packs.

Gyro: Telebee Heading Hold Gyro (decent gyro, some drifting but that might be due to the tail servo I'm using. Cheap and it works good enough till you can upgrade)

That's about $300 worth of electronics and power system but it works very well. The 400DB that you are looking at is a good lower KV motor for the king. Not as good for 3D as the 400DH but it's good for sport flying.

I have a futaba 7CHP transmitter for mine.

As far as other upgrades I did go with the t-rex canopy :glasses2: and a custom paint job. I would recommend if you paint your own to go with colors that are a little more contrasting. I do have some orientation problems with that paint job.

I also have the super landing skids from helidirect for $12. Buying the assembled one is a waste of money. It's only 6 screws :). Really its the only way to go. The stock skids are really bad. Another option is to replace the kings frame with a cool's frame. Make a king/cool hybrid. If I ever break my current frame that is what I'm going to do.

As far as what I personally think about the king.. I'm very happy with it now. My only current complaint is that the frame is a little weak and my flex under very heavy 3D causing some manuevers to be mushy. that's only for truly advanced fliers though. I have no issues with the tail and it's been very solid for me. I even have one of the first generation tails that had all those vibration problems. The stock motor is definitally not good for the king though. It runs WAYYY to hot. I even had 2 heat sinks on mine with heat compound. Other than that though I don't think you can beat the king for the price and value... But that falcon is looking mighty tempting. I just wish they sold a version without the transmitter...

I went with a little different layout for the electronics than most people but it works well for me. I put the recevier down under the main gear to keep it far far away from other components. I've had lots of issues with glitching on my other heli's so I now try to do this when possible. Here's a few detail pics of my king.

[SkyUp]

Awesome pics ... it's a great looking machine and sure looks like it wants to fly!
Your equipment list is very helpful ...
Do you have a stock main shaft in that ... is there a good solid replacement instead of the hollow one that comes stock. I thought I read somewhere that you could use a Trex shaft, but I think there was an issue with the length being a little bit shorter than the King.

Ya, that RTF Falcon is looking pretty nice too. I'ts definately on my short list. Parts are available for it now and they don't seem overly expensive.

... arrrggg ... decisions, decisions ... :lol:

[L0stS0ul]

I've not found a replacement shaft yet. It is rather fragile but it has saved me a few head parts. The shafts are quite cheap and are very easy to replace. I believe that Helidirect is currently working to find a vendor to create a solid shaft for the King but I have not heard an ETA on that.

I know that someone used the t-rex shaft but it was short and caused some pitch issues. I can only get a max of -10 to +10 without binding so I don't think I'd want to limit myself any more with a smaller shaft.

It's a good flying machine. :cool:

[SkyUp]

Thanks for the info LS!
May you have tons of exciting flights (with soft landings)!

SkyUp
(a wanabe heli flyer)

[SkyUp]

Well LostSoul -

I went for the Falcon 3D ... ordered it this evening!
Ordered a 15C 2100mah Lipo to go with it in case I actually get it off the ground. :roll:

Grand Total ... (drum roll please) ... about $348

Man-o-man am I excited now ... :lol:

I think I may have to wait a bit for HL to get more in, they had some cryptic message about "Out - 8/10/2006" ...

... I'll let you know what I think when it get here. :glasses2:

Dave

[raptor_0028]

Sorry to interrupt. If you are free, please read on.

I wouldn't know if my opinion here would even worth 2 cent or not but here it goes.

Many years ago, I got myself a Raptor .30 running on nitro. My guru flew it before me - well setup, well trimmed, well everything. We went out to the field one day after I've practiced my hovering skill on that FMS simulator he 'sold' me (which I realised I could have downloaded it for free), plus that special interface between my JR radio (where you could download and make the interface yourself). I'm not complaining.

Due to lack of time, I hardly flew. The whole lugging along a 5kg machine plus fuel plus starter plus training skid thing just drove me off. Plus my guru always draw a square on the ground asking me not to fly off. Which I often failed and blamed it on the wind.

Until one day I came across another heli. This time a TRex 450 CCPM. Had fun building it up. When I fouled up the first built, I immediately got myself another Kit the same night. That left me the first kit as spare parts. I got myself Aerofly Pro Deluxe simulator too!

From 5kgs (or maybe less), I've come down to 700g with the TRex. Now weighing some 690g with training skid on.

Managed to fly it a few times, mostly drifting all over the places with some emergency landings. It's too fierce to fly in the office. So I hardly flew it too.

I've found that the lighter the heli, the harder it is to control it. Your reflex should be like 5x as fast when compared to that heavy nitro.

And today I came across someone flying an ESky Honey Bee CP2 in front of a shop in a shopping complex.

I asked to have a try on it. The boss was a bit reluctant at first but eventually he let me have a go after I told him I could hover a heli on my Aerofly Pro Deluxe, even managed to auto-rotate a few times and doing flips 'in mid-air'.

Mein Gott Im Himmel! It was like a monster running amok all over the place! He was shouting at me with CAPITALS, with "MORE THROTTLE... YOU ARE LIKE PLAYING MAHJONG SWEEPING ALL OVER THE PLACE! NONONO BRING IT BACK BRING IT BACK!!! OH MY GOD!!!" Shoppers were seen nearly jumping off the rails when the heli approached them on high speed.

My conclusion was that with hardly 400g on ESky HB CP2, it's even more impossible for me to learn.

But the fact that the boss was able to hover the same heli well got me interested in that ultra light ESky HB CP2.

I planned to get a set from him if he is willing to teach me. But he jokingly (I hope he is only joking) said that he would need to stock up on adult diapers if I do.

Thank you for reading. If this is not very informative, I hope you had a good laugh.

I want to fly an RC heli but it seems that everything is going wrong when I think they are going right.

I really don't know why. Sorry.

[reman]

very funny :D

CATCH 22 :

Most Larger training Helli's are more docile, But more dangerous if let out of control and lots more expensive to fix when gravity wins.

Most small Helli's can twitch around like a wasp on Ecstasy if not setup right or outside in any wind, But as they weigh a lot less there is a better chance it will bounce with less (or no) damage in an " abrupt landing " (or as some might call it " a crash ")

If you can handle the price of the spares, I've found the MS composites hornet to be quite fun. It's just small enough to hover in a medium to large living room (furniture and pets permitting) and it's stable enough to fly outside if its calm but as I said try not to brake it ( i'm waiting for next pay day to get the bits to fix mine)

The t-rex is much better on spares pricing, I rolled mine into Bodmin Moore from about 20 feet ( Rx prob ) It bent or broke the blade clamps, boom, u/c legs, both carbon tail fins, 2 servos, tail supports and rudder push rod. all this cost less to fix than the hornets tail boom, frame and blades but I will fix it as its so Nice to fly when its setup right

I also find I have more problems flying when there's an people watching (I seem to be thinking about the stupid thing I just did instead of the stupid thing I'm in the middle of doing now)

By the way, here's a little about the Helli's I have, I've been flying Helli's for about 6 months, used to fly RC gliders as a kid (I always wanted to get into RC Helli's but back then it cost around £2000 to £3000 to get the kit, engine and radio, and they were a LOT harder to fly).
I have 3 1/2 Helli's at the moment,
a modified esky lama 2,
a random fixed pitch honey bee clone ( you certainly get what you pay for, it was unflyable as standard, now its just bloody difficult),
a short boom HDE t-rex x/xl/se hybrid
and a large pile of hornet bits waiting for some more parts to rebuild it.

The lama is so easy to fly (when friends say "lets have a go" its this one that get pushed there way).
the honey bee clone = its an unheard of brand for a reason, don't go there.
the t-rex is a great toy, its stable enough to fly in a gentle breeze and if setup properly it can do some nice 3d work.
and finally the Hornet, did I mention that "the parts are expensive" what I meant was " HOLY CR4P, WHAT SUBSTANCE WERE THEY ON WHEN THEY DECIDED THAT A PAIR OF 75mm l X 2mm d CARBON ROD U/C STRUTS SHOULD COST £2.98 ( ABOUT $5.55) or £13.00 FOR A 300mm l X 7mm d CARBON FIBER TAIL BOOM (THE T-REX CARBON FIBER TAIL BOOM IS 3X THE CIRCUMFERENCE BUT COSTS £10, GO FIGURE)"

anyway, The important thing is to keep at it as one day in the future you'll be thinking about the hobby and it'll dawn on you your now spending more on replacing worn out parts than crash damaged bits ( I'm hoping I get there soon as all this repair work is getting expensive )

[L0stS0ul]

SkyUp,

did ya get the falcon yet? I'm very interested to hear about that one :)

[Rctoyhouse]

The esky_sz website isn't working? Anyone know what's going on?

[L0stS0ul]

the web address changed and maybe their name as well ?

http://www.twf-sz.com/

[reman]

I see the English descriptions in e-sky's web site hasn't got any better then :lol: :lol: :lol:

[L0stS0ul]

I got some new video tonight. Here's the 3D video I promised

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=565275

Managed to finally get some video of the heli looping, rolling, doing some stall turns, and even a few "almost" stationary flips. I think I need to up the head speed a bit to help it get over a little faster but overall it flies mild 3d very nicely. As far as I'm aware this is the first video showing the heli fliping and stuff by anyone other than a vendor

Here it is a little higher quality if you want that:
http://media.putfile.com/E-Sky-King---Mild-3D