Logo 14 for still shots

[eallenking]

I'm new to r/c helicopting and am primarily becoming involved for business purposes. We need aerial photographs of job sites usually a half acre to acre in size, 2 acres at the most. We only need overhead still shots. Meaning, we need the camera facing the ground or as close to perpendicular to the ground as possible.

I've been in contact with heli-hobby and they suggested a logo 14 electric for this purpose. We aren't ever really looking to do any 3d maneuvers basically a simple up, hover between 200 and 300 ft and down deal. We have a nikon with 50mm lens and it weighs just over 2lbs, 2lbs 1/2 oz to be exact.

Any suggestions, hints or input would be greatly appreciated.

My research on the logo has been pretty positive but I've never flown one and wondered if anyone had any other suggestions.

Thanks in advance,

Ethan

[Patrick Egan]

You might want to check out other vendors as I have had no luck with Helihobby- :arggg:

[eallenking]

Thanks Patrick, can you elaborate a little bit for me? Poor customer care? Problems with the product they sold you?

I'm on the East Coast, New England specifically. Anyone know of a good vendor this direction?

[dreslism]

I guess my first thought is can you get a vertical shot of 2 acres in with a 50mm lens at 200-300 feet.

An oblique shot yes, but not sure on the complete vertical.

Have you done it before?

I have not done the math to figure out if it will, but I know it should be able to be calculated.

[GGoodrum]

The Logos are great 3D machines, as they are purpose-built for electric, and are very light because of it. They also make great AP rigs. I use a Logo 10-based setup as my "main" heli for still shots, and it works great.

Unless you are doing video, or are absolutely dead set on using the big Nikon, a Logo 14 might be overkill. There are many of the newer "point'n shoot" cameras now with 8-10 megapixels and very decent optics. On a Logo 10, these work quite well.

The big advantage a Logo 10-based setup has is the cost of batteries is lower. The heavier the setup, the more you will be spending to keep everything in the air for a decent amount of time.

If money is not an issue, then by all means, a Logo 14 has some other advantages that can make it an attractive AP platform. For one, since all the Logos, for the 10 up to the 24, share the same boom/tail setup, so it is quite easy to stretch any of them. Normally, the Logo 10 uses 500mm blades, the 14 uses 550-580 blades, the 20 uses 600s and the 24, 600-690s. You could put a Logo 20 boom/belt on a Logo 14, for instance, and run 600 blades. For that matter, you could do that to a Logo 10. The advantage the 14 has, though, is that it is the only Logo with a driven tail, which makes it a lot easier to auto (you still can control the tail...).

I don't worry about autos too much with my Logo 10, as the smaller stuff don't really auto that well anyway. I had an "incident" a couple weeks ago where I inadvertantly hit the throttle hold switch, instead of the camera shutter switch (my son was flying and I was doing the camera, reaching over him to control the camera... yeah, dumb I know, :D but I have this normally setup for single-person operation...), and it fell through a tree from about 80 feet. Not much of an auto, but the tree did break the fall. The only damage was a cracked CF boom and a bent flybar. :) The Askman mount I'm using absorbed a lot of the shock, and didn't have a scratch. Neither did the Canon SD550 camera I was using.

Although something bigger, like a Logo 14 or a Raptor, will auto better, I really like the smaller size of the Logo 10, as it is much safer, and less "intimidating" when flying in residential neighborhoods. It sounds like your construction sites wouldn't pose the same sorts of concerns, so if money is not so much of an issue, I guess I'd recommend the 14, or even a Raptor-based setup. Although a bit bigger (a Raptor Titan can use 620mm blades...) and heavier, the Raptors have another big advantage in that most every hobby shop in the country that supports RC helicopters, will carry Raptors and, more importantly, will stock spare parts. This may be an even more critical factor in your case, if you only have the one rig. Most here who do "professional" AP/AV work have several setups, in case of unforeseen problems. With a Raptor-based setup, you won't have to wait days for parts to arrive, to get you back in the air after an "incident".

Anyway, hope this rambling helped a little. :D

-- Gary

[eallenking]

Very good question. For our purposes several shots in a two acre site at 200-300 feet will work perfectly with a 50mm lens. But no, one shot wouldn't even come close to taking in an entire 2 acre site with a 50mm lens at 200-300 feet. For the 1/3 to 1 acre we are working with though, 4 to 10 shots should cover that entire area with a 50mm lens at 200-300 feet.

Since Patrick suggested not working with heli-hobby, does anyone have any good suggestions about a vendor that would be worth working with. The research I've done is on the logo 14 and it seems to be the perfect unit for what we need to do. But joker and t-rex also pop up. We want to stay electric but have no idea which models are comparible to the logo 14.

[GGoodrum]

Thanks Patrick, can you elaborate a little bit for me? Poor customer care? Problems with the product they sold you?

I'm on the East Coast, New England specifically. Anyone know of a good vendor this direction?

I agree, HH has a mostly spotty support record. RCHover (www.rchover.com) is in your area, and Jeremy provides great service. I'm not sure he carries Logos, though. Northeast Sail (www.nesail.com) is also in your neck of the woods, and they do stock Logo kits and parts. I've always had good luck with them.

I too am a full Logo/Mikado dealer, but I don't normally stock parts. I can put together a complete package, including an Askman mount, and an optimized AP power package, with the newest FlightPower Evo 20 "New Formulation" LiPo packs and a Thunder Power TP1010C/TP-210V charger/balancer combo. I'm also a Thnder Tiger dealer, so I can also do a similar package based on the Titan model. Just PM me if you are interested, but no biggie if you are not. :)

-- Gary

[eallenking]

Gary, that was great! Thanks a ton.

Let me explain a bit further what we are doing. Our pictures are not for retail or resale they are simply there to increase productivity for our designs. We can't have a lot of distortion on the edges of our photos and the 50mm lens seems to have a very flat picture even at the 200 to 300 foot mark unlike the point and shoots.

As I said we are trying to shoot straight down. After we have covered a site we will then import these pictures into our design program (photoshop) and manipulate that graphic image based on the real images taken to create a design. Up until now we were taking regular ground shots of the sites, then graphically creating an accurate representation of the site. In incredible amount of time goes into this base level that we need to start with for the design. With the aerial photos of the sites which don't need to be perfect other than as little distortion as possible, our design time is cut down by a factor of 80%.

When I say new to the sport, I mean new to the sport. I've never flown a helicopter. I have logged a hundred plus hours on the RealFlight G3 simulator and can adequately hover, fly and do some 3d tricks (which we'll never use in the field). I'm by no means great, but I think I'm ready to fly up, hover, take a few shots and land. We already bought the camera for a powered parachute from aerofoil but they turned out to be the absolute worst company on the face of the planet. We have the infrared chip that hooks into the receiver and sends the pulse to take the shot from the tx and have tested it, it works well.

Money is always an issue but in this instance, spending extra to have a more stabile craft that I know can lift 2 lbs without much loss in performance seems to be the most important factor.

However, if the logo 10 can lift that 2 lbs plus whatever weight the mount is, then I'm not against something a little smaller and more maneuverable. We do work all over the country to being able to break the unit down some and take it with us, is important. Also the idea of less expensive batteries is appealing and the 10 would use less than the 14.

Does Raptor make an electric copter or do they have a kit that will conver it? I'm sure I'll crash at some point sooner rather than later, so most likely repair parts are going to be a necessity. How easy is it to come by log replacements?

Also, I thought controlling the tail (auto) was imperative, can you explain that in a little more detail.

I'll look forward to your answer.

Ethan

[GGoodrum]

Actually, there is a new eRaptor (620SE...) coming out next month, but I've been selling Raptor conversion kits for quite some time now. The Raptors are proven platforms, and as I said, parts are readily available, for the inevitible "incident". The new eRaptor, which I will also carry, will make use of most of the existing parts, which is great. It will, like the Logo 14, will have lightweight CF frames and will be quite sturdy. This is going to make the "ultimate" 3D machine, in my opinion (620 blades, a Hacker A50-12S and a 12s-3300 FP setup... :shock: ), but I'm not sure it is really necessary for AP work. You can get a new set of the stock Titan frames for about $25. The current front mounts being done by Askman and DJ are based on using these stock frames as well, as they go in the area where the servo tray used to be. With the new 620SE, or the Logo 14, you would need to use an underslung mount.

Speaking of mounts, I think the consensus is, for anything with 600 blades on up, that a front mount is a bit easier to fly, and a lot easier to auto. For a Logo 10 size, and smaller, I think it is the other way around. Having the "oversized" skids makes it easier to see, and definitely easier to land.

Anyway, for what you are doing, I think a Raptor Titan, with one of DJ/Askman's front mounts, probably makes the most sense. It'll cost about the same as a Logo 14 setup (actually, maybe a bit less...), is big enough to keep oriented over the whole area you are working, is an extremely stable platform and has spare parts available pretty much everywhere.

A couple of other suggestions that will really make you job MUCH easier. First, regardless of what platform you pick, get one of the SpartanRC AP-2000i stabilizers that Mark Webber sells. You use it with the IR sensor that FMA Direct uses in their much-flawed "CoPilot" system. The AP-2000i really works, unlike the CoPilot, and FMA does sell the sensor separate. What this combo does is let you trim out a hover in most any conditions, and hold it there. It really is quite handy for what we do. :)

The other product you might look into is the Pico-Tilt board from U-nav (www.u-nav.com). This is designed to automatically stabilze pitch and roll in a 2 or 3-axis system. It was specifically developed for gps-based mapping/aerial photography applications, where they need to keep the camera pointed straight down, which sounds like what you are trying to do. Anyway, I just got one of these, which I'm installing on my new prototype Askman 3-axis front mount I'm installing on my Raptor. For the pan axis, I'm going to use a Vision Lock board, with a GY240 gyro. I don't really have a need right now for a full 3-axis, active stabilized mount, but it will prove handy at some point, I'm sure. It will certainly be a very cost-efective system, compared to what's out there right now.

-- Gary

[eallenking]

Hey Gary,

Thanks againg for the response, I think we need to have a phone conversation or at least im at this point. Much of what you are telling me I understand but some of the technical jargon is lost on me and I need explained in more laymans terms. Any way we can have a conversation today by phone or instant messenger? You can reach me at (603) 224-8931. But I'm happy to call you too.

Ethan

[dreslism]

I second the ap2000i recommendation, especially at 200-300 ft that you will be flying at.

Get it from Mark Webber in the states so you don't have to get it from the UK.

[AZ ChopperCam]

I'll 3rd the the commenton the AP2000i

lots of good info there Gary! :D

[eallenking]

Appreciate it guys, I'm sure I'll need more help in the coming months, I'll look forward to the great responses.

[k2pilot]

the logo14 was close to being my favorite ap rig! it was so light and simple, i've built quite a few l14 ap rigs for other people and they've always been very happy with them.

here's my original and what i end up making for other people.



http://www.k2shots.com/logo14/IMG_0337.jpg


http://www.k2shots.com/logo14/IMG_0516.jpg

http://www.k2shots.com/logo14/IMG_0338.jpg

http://www.k2shots.com/IMG_0515.jpg

http://www.k2shots.com/IMG_1952.jpg

http://www.k2shots.com/logo14/IMG_0307.jpg

every time i talk about the l14 it only makes me want to make one for myself again!