how to cook your scorpion 60a esc

[crypto666]

I just got my scorp 60a v2 esc back from warranty replacement. this time I was runing it at 4s and everything was screaming with the stock settings w/ no gov. I could not get the gov to work the way I thought it should; more than 10 seconds of flight.so I switched the drive freq to 18khz. when it tried to make the arming beeps, it fried.no warning in the manual, but I bet I get stuck with the $40 repair bill. should I spend the money to fix it, or just never get scorpion anything again?

[nightflyr]

Originally Posted by crypto666

I just got my scorp 60a v2 esc back from warranty replacement. this time I was runing it at 4s and everything was screaming with the stock settings w/ no gov. I could not get the gov to work the way I thought it should; more than 10 seconds of flight.so I switched the drive freq to 18khz. when it tried to make the arming beeps, it fried.no warning in the manual, but I bet I get stuck with the $40 repair bill. should I spend the money to fix it, or just never get scorpion anything again?

Can't say for certain, perhaps it not suppose to work the way you think it should, had you tried getting hold of tech support b4 you toasted your ESC.....

never owned a Scorpion ESC I am using there motors which work flawlessly so far, for what its worth I use Hobby Wing ESC's with no issues

[crypto666]

Originally Posted by nightflyr

Can't say for certain, perhaps it not suppose to work the way you think it should, had you tried getting hold of tech support b4 you toasted your ESC.....

never owned a Scorpion ESC I am using there motors which work flawlessly so far, for what its worth I use Hobby Wing ESC's with no issues

tech support (lucien) didn't have much to say other than just use normal mode.I am just going to buy a cheapy generic to run while my scorpion commutes back and forth from cal.

[airjawed]

Seeing that you have damaged two esc's I'd say you have something wrong in the setup...post up everything about your setup.

Pinion, motor, battery etc...

Doing gov mode is more work than just choosing that mode in the esc. Watch the finless video on the cc hv 85 for a very good overview on how it works. Then apply that info to your esc/setup.

[pwoodyp]

Originally Posted by crypto666

<snip>so I switched the drive freq to 18khz. when it tried to make the arming beeps, it fried.no warning in the manual,<snip>

??? What is the recommended PWM setting for that motor/ESC ??? FYI: Setting PWM too high can affect the temperatures of the the ESC and setting too high can be detrimental to the ESC.

Really changing the PWM for optimal performance should only be done in concert with a tach and a reliable way to read the ESC's temperature. I do know scorpion has recommended 8khz for their motors in the past.... and Castle Creation use 12khz for their default. Although 18khz don't seem that high to me but without a temp gun to measure accurately what is happening we'd just be guessing right.

Anyway yes higher the PWM frequency (as a general rule) the higher the temperature of the ESC. So I would go with the factory recommended, in this case what Scorpion recommends. Not saying this is your problem so I wouldn't stop looking. All other possibility's should be considered, more an FYI if ya want.

[crypto666]

I was looking to cool things down. so just by switching to 18khz it blew fets? there was no throttle command given, it just started and arming beeb when it smoked. same thing happened on my last one. if it is that sensitive of an issue, it should be in the manual or have protection. everything was running well with tons of power. the revs were set based on where it runs smoothest w/ little to no vibe. I don't think I am even in the 3000 rpm range.esc gets hot to touch (~150° F).motor (~130° F)ambient 85°collective response is kick ass, while cyclic is pretty good, but not erection quality. tail controls like something magical3dx frame-8 @ 11tcyclic= align ds410mg tail= ds520 rhino/zippy/turnigy 4s liposdx6i2100t6v ubecTC mode 1= 0-20-33.5-41-88.5TC mode 2 = 88,5-41-33-41-88,5**when trying to use gov on esc throttle curves are flat I am not into 3D, more like tormenting cows and other animals.

[airjawed]

Originally Posted by crypto666

I was looking to cool things down. so just by switching to 18khz it blew fets? there was no throttle command given, it just started and arming beeb when it smoked. same thing happened on my last one. if it is that sensitive of an issue, it should be in the manual or have protection. everything was running well with tons of power. the revs were set based on where it runs smoothest w/ little to no vibe. I don't think I am even in the 3000 rpm range.esc gets hot to touch (~150° F).motor (~130° F)ambient 85°collective response is kick ass, while cyclic is pretty good, but not erection quality. tail controls like something magical3dx frame-8 @ 11tcyclic= align ds410mg tail= ds520 rhino/zippy/turnigy 4s liposdx6i2100t6v ubecTC mode 1= 0-20-33.5-41-88.5TC mode 2 = 88,5-41-33-41-88,5**when trying to use gov on esc throttle curves are flat I am not into 3D, more like tormenting cows and other animals.

Use standard curves in your radio...your idle 2 curve is way too v shaped...having a 33 in the middle is real low and then then the increases are way too high.

Use curves like 0-40-60-85-100 in idle one
Idle 1 100 - 92.5 - 85 - 92.5 -100
Idle 2 100 - 100- 100-100-100

Notice that the curves are high and generally flat....this runs cooler and gives you efficiency as well. They are pretty standard so don't worry.

Use gearing to get the headspeed where you want it. So with a 4s you may be using a 10t or 11t.

[crypto666]

The steep v curve is so it doesn't over speed. I wish I would have got a -10 or even -12. I am going to get a 10t, but I would rather be running larger pinions so I am rewinding a motor that I hope to be in the 3000kv to 3200kv range.

What I need is an esc that isn;t so sensitive.

[airjawed]

High gearing and your steep throttle curve is putting a lot of load on the system...lots of amps...this is making heat and overamping/burning out your system. And it probably isn't flying as well as it should.

With the 10t you won't overspeed your head or draw so much in amps.

[crypto666]

But with 10t my motor will be spinning closer to that 50,000 RPM NE area.
Why would I be drawing more amps with 4s to turn the motor at the same rpm as 3s? same RPM means same V*A, right?

[crypto666]

But anyway, the point is that the ESC fried simply by changing a setting without actually running the motor. The only listed warning in the instruction is not to mess with the current limit protection. With this being a 60 A esc, and with it being ran on 4s, there should be no issues. I should be able to clamp dead cats in the blade holders and still fly.

[airjawed]

You would be pushing a lot of rpms true.... you are right in saying that a -10 or -12 may have been better. I'd still put that 10t in though.

The rpm change the way it is set up seems like it would be dramatic. With all that speeding up and slowing down you'll be making a lot of heat...then with heat comes increased resistance...more heat...more resistance...suddenly your 60a isn't enough.

Changing the pwm just changes the heat from the motor to heat into the esc...unless you get it right and then overall everything will be timing better.

Anyway this is my opinion....If you know what you are doing then take it with a grain of salt.

[crypto666]

9 and 10 pionions ordered. I hate those little things. bigger seems to be smoother and I think less prone to failure.the reason I was trying to stick with 11 is for clearance and because that is what I figured the optimum gear would be for that kv. I should have looked into going 4s BEFORE I bought my -8. so shorter (higher freq) pwm moves heat from motor to esc?

[airjawed]

Going to a higher frequency pwm is more cycles for the esc to make...so it ends up creating a little bit more heat in the esc...what this does for the motor is to create a voltage that is smoother....which usually means it will run cooler. I've played with my pwm settings and I haven't seen much of a heat increase...but my motor did spool up smoother.

Make sure you use hardened steel pinions....the brass ones are really soft....which loose shape and then run noisy.

[crypto666]

Thanks for the tips Airjawed.

I talked with Lucien Miller (this guy and his service is what makes scorpion a superior product) at Innov8tive Designs and told him what happened and he said that is unusual and shouldn’t happen. So he is going to check with the factory and see what the deal is. He also said that for the -8 motor I should be running 8khz.

So if anyone out there is running a 60A Scorp ESC and a -8 or equivalent motor and you are feeling adventurous, try switching to 18khz drive freq and see what happens. I am curious if this problem is widespread.
When I get my esc back, I am going to set the LV cut and leave the rest of the programming alone.

[marchambault]

Just out of curiousity, are you running a seperate BEC? How many amps does your receiver/ servos draw?

[crypto666]

Yes, I am running a seperate UBEC at 6V. I haven't bothered to check my amp draw yet, maybe I will tonight since she isn't flying. I am running all align digital servos; 410 on cyclic and a 520 on the tail.
The first time I popped this ESC I was on 3s and thought it may have been the onboard BEC that blew, but that was not the case. As it turns out, I had made the same change to the drive freq (PWM) that resulted in popping the esc as I had done the second time.

[Bob O]

Originally Posted by crypto666

Thanks for the tips Airjawed.

I talked with Lucien Miller (this guy and his service is what makes scorpion a superior product) at Innov8tive Designs and told him what happened and he said that is unusual and shouldn’t happen. So he is going to check with the factory and see what the deal is. He also said that for the -8 motor I should be running 8khz.

So if anyone out there is running a 60A Scorp ESC and a -8 or equivalent motor and you are feeling adventurous, try switching to 18khz drive freq and see what happens. I am curious if this problem is widespread.
When I get my esc back, I am going to set the LV cut and leave the rest of the programming alone.

If Lucien said you should be running the -8 motor at 8khz, why would you suggest for someone else to try 18khz?

[crypto666]

To see if it destroys their ESC. It shouldn't, but it did mine, twice.