Joker head & test flights

[AZ ChopperCam]

so... I spent today getting the Joker ready to fly. No camera mount just yet. Just basic pod/boom assembly for some Joker initiation flights.

When I got to putting the head on I noticed that there is no mixing base and washout arms. Now I see what Joker pilots were talking about when mentioning the MFS rotorhead design. Quite an interesting mechanism.

What are the benefits to such a design? I assume less slop is one. Also probably better geometry throughout the pitch ranges?

Anyhow.. I hope to put in a flight or two tomorrow.

[loewermx]

I'm intrested to hear what your first impressions are of the first flight. I just picked up a used Maxi Joker (bent tail) and it will be here on tues. Little bit nervous actually as this is my first big electric, everything before this has been Trex size.

Any tips I shuold know about?


Oh, I would like to get a front mount also. :wink:

[fitenfyr]

DJ,
I think it is a combination of the lost complexity and the smoothness of the overall controls.
Notice how smoooooothhhh that head is compared to anything else you have?
There are no jerky movements in the linkages at all.

I just got ours together today also. Going to try a few test flights tomorrow after I pick up a Series adapter from the Hobby shop.

Only thing that REALLY stinks is the battery configuration.
I have to buy new packs for the Maxi as my Ion packs won't fit. :(

Thankfully I have a set of Duralites that once I pulled the carbon side plates off fit fine.

I can't wait to get this thing in the air. I am so impressed with the build of this helicopter.
It makes my Ion look "cheap" :D :D :D

I think there is going to be an Ion AP ship up for sale in a few months so I can buy a Maxi 2. :D :D

[AZ ChopperCam]

Test flew just now.

105° ambient :shock:
11:00 flight
24amps average
motor 175°
esc 130°
battery 138°
4500mah back into pack

that works out to about 409mah/min

headspeed on this rig is too high. not sure exactly but sounds like about 1800. I have the Actro 24-4 in it now with 20t pinion. I need to put in a 24-5.

Overall it's a smooth ship. I have a buzz in the tail and the mains are out of track about .10" Also tail gain is a little too high. I need to put flybar weights on too cause it's too responsive for my tatses for AP work.

[AZ ChopperCam]

just put in another flight. tracking is dead on now. blades are balanced exactly. I have a shake though. manifests itself in the landing skids and tail fin. appears to be low frequency like a main rotor shake. I'll try sliding the flybar weights around to see if I can eliminate it.

damn it's hot out here today!!! 110°

[terje]

damn it's hot out here today!!! 110°


wow, that kind of temps would kill me. We had about 30 degrees celsius yesterday, and that was too much for me to enjoy...

[k2pilot]

dj,

did you check the spindle? that caused the exact vibe you're describing for me, it was the smoothest thing i had ever seen!

yea it was 110 here the other day, although up at the dod fly in(day 2) it was just shy of 120! my eyes stung the entire time.

[AZ ChopperCam]

havent checked the spindle. are you saying it may have some runout? is that what I should check for?

any other things to look for? it's driving me nuts. I hear alot about how smooth they are and no matter what I do it's not eliminating that vibe. arggghhh!

[Art-Tistic]

DJ,
If I had to bet, I'd say it's the feathering spindle from what you described. However before you go stripping the head down....(which involves heating the grips to remove/install them...don't go banging away on it) try the crude, simple and yet very effective approach for checking the spindle. Remove the blades form the head, place a DI on one of the grips and then use an allen on the other grip to spin the spindle. Chances are if the spindle is bent you'll see run-out in the grip.

Hope this helps

[AZ ChopperCam]

man... Ian and Anthony were dead on. The spindle has a bend. Not just a small bend but a rather large one. Som much so that if I spin the end of the spindle with an allen wrench and watch the other grip if wobbled as much as .10" at the grips end.

I tell ya.... this heli had some issues when I got it and makes me wonder if it was damaged in shipping. The tail pitch links were busted, spindle bent, dented canopy. the thing is the box looked like it was in perfect condition.... I dunno.

Anyways I am SOOOOO GLAD to see it was bent cause I knew everything was dead on balanced.

So I'll order up one today.

[AZ ChopperCam]

ok! now we are getting somewhere! A local guy gave me an extra spindle that he had so I was good to go.

Just flew it and it is rock solid. Vibe gone.

Thanks for the help on that guys. And now to make a camera mount! I may whip something up for temporary use until Askman makes the new frames

DJ

[electro212]

dj

what is you head speed???

[askman]

DJ, I still need the frame width dimension. I started to look at the drawings that you sent. mostly started to compare it to the manual to see which hole is for which bulkhead. should have something outlined in few days.

I did finish the logo24 mount(cutting it this weekend)

[Art-Tistic]

Keep it going guys....with my luck I'll have sold my maxi the day before you come out with the mount. On a side note....Askman...you have got to have the most underated products out there...I absolutely LOVE the small gimbal in my Trex and can't wait to see the finished Joker colaboration.

Best Regards!!
Ant

[askman]

I don't know about underrated, mostly not as well known. I've been doing this as part time business for almost exactly 1 year now, and started with slowstick and smaller ehelis to build the experience and market. I keep the Small mount priced reasonable to encourage people into AP. I have not really advertised, as I am already pretty busy (this is a second job for me) . Still I am well known in RCG though.

I guess I am not as well known for heli, as I refused to be on RR. I do like to encourage others. I think market is stronger with competition. working with DJ has been good for both of us. I am finally getting good product lineup though, and it is fun. frankly, I like designing more than making them to sell. :) . This nosecam is very easily adapted to various helis. :) it is a good thing. I think there are lot of good gimbals out(including mine) there, and so why not make it usable by others too.

[AZ ChopperCam]

DJ, I still need the frame width dimension.

upper frame inside dimension is 22mm (.870")
lower frame inside dimension is 60mm (2.362")

also did you get my mention of making the lower frames 1" taller for better battery clearance? just take all the lower holes and move them down 1" Also try to push the battery pack area back a little to make room for the camera up front and to help offset the camera weight.

working with DJ has been good for both of us.
I'm lovin' it. I'm very pleased with the synergy between the two designs.

[Tonystott]

Just out of interest Andrey, about how many of your Askman mounts are out there these days? And Dennis, same question. The two of you seem to me to be perfect champions for AP, as both of you keep your R&D hats on, while going out of your way to encourage others into what I reckon is the very best avenue for R/C.

Maybe I am too old, but 3D is a yawn to me, as the experts seem to have just about exhausted all the possible gyrations, so most of the videos look very similar.

On the other hand, the technical sophistication and manufacturing precision of your products perfectly compliment the aim of allowing a pilot with photographic talent to produce stunning results which aren't really possible with any other equipment.

Don't stop, you guys! :D:D

PS Sorry if it's a sorta thread hijack, but seeing Dennis's enthusiasm as he tackles yet another potential AP platsform is what got me going..

[fitenfyr]

also did you get my mention of making the lower frames 1" taller for better battery clearance? just take all the lower holes and move them down 1" Also try to push the battery pack area back a little to make room for the camera up front and to help offset the camera weight.

Ooooohhhh now you have my attention real good. :D

I need those lower frames. :D

The new generation LiPo's just don't fit well in the Maxi 1. :(

I think myself that 1" maybe a bit much.
I was thinking more like 20mm or so.
Just so the hole is a square 60mmx60mm.

[askman]

DJ, yes, got the taller message. plates are 2mm material?

3d is wow, but it is so outrageous, It is almost beyond me. like watching gymnasts doing routine. I know it is possible, but beyond reach or desire of lot of people . :)

I love the melting of technology and human aspect in AP. I am R&D engineer by trade anyway, so product improvement is always on my mind. we are in an exciting time. affordable low level AP and with bit more development, we will see really neat stuff in near terms.

I can say I have over 100 mounts out there in various guises. not bad for 1 years work. I sold lot of SS stuff last year, but this year, it has been mostly helicam and polecams. winter month was very slow though(nice to take time off) still, I am not really making profit(too much R&D expense. :D ) still it is enjoyable business.

[Tonystott]

You are right about the appeal of the technology! Even my little Trex, with brushless, LiPos, ESC,BEC, Strobe/alarm etc seems incredible to non R/Cers, and the reaction is disbelief when they also see gimballed digital camera mount and downlink cam with voltage regulators all in a 2lb package. When I look at the way more sophisicated set-ups that you and Dennis are creating it almost takes my breath away.

[askman]

back to Joker mount. I think I have it figured out. new lower frame will looks like it is cut off at the front vertical bulkhead, and have it grafted on to the back of the frame, but will have about 1" taller battery compartment. I am wondering if I can reduce the top half of the lower frame a bit. I am also trying to use all of stock bulkhead as much as possible.

also, how many people put gyro on the frame?

mount design itself will be similiar to raptor

[AZ ChopperCam]

I'll be putting the gyro on the tailboom most likely. I try to shift as much weight aft as possible to allow for the largest camera up front.

if you have any questions about the frames feel free to snap a few pics and post with some markings on any areas you are wondering about and I can help answer them.

[epc2]

When are you guys expecting to have this new camera mount ready to sell?

epc2.

[askman]

Mostly, I am thinking of raising the rear center horizontal cross piece up by .5" or so. combined with .5" taller frame, you will have 1" taller compartment extending from back vertical bulkhead on back that is 7" long or so for the battery (actually longer packs in too, as it will be open to the ack. front area will be .5" taller, but I would think you would want to have the battery back anyway. I will CAD it out later on today.

I should have first prototype cut this weekend for the frame. then it needs to go to DJ for test fit. should have something available soon after that.

[AZ ChopperCam]

if you want to make the frames from G10 first to test fitment that would be fine and then carbon afterwards if all goes well.