.50 OS or Electric

[AZ ChopperCam]

my rig is stock except for the eCCPM mod. You can use that tray you posted with the side stick mounts. if you look close at the photo I posted you can see I have one too, although I really don't need it. I may remove it.

as for ready to go mounts... sit tight. Almost there. I got my order from Askman today. 6 of his frame kits. I am waiting on carbon arches and HDPE bits from MJP Carbon Then I need to order up the hardware from McMaster. Just a few more weeks. Pricing is probably going to be around $350-$375. That includes everything you need to turn a Raptor into a photo/video ship.

[Ziggy2711]

Freakin awesome! I can easily wait a couple of weeks for a rig. It will give me some time to practice and fine tune with the stock setup. The price seems right too!

Wow! It just seems as if your ship is lighter but I guess I was wrong. I can see you have the a tray also.

That's it for now. Gonna go watch a movie and step away from this stuff for once today! Thanks man!

[dreslism]

DJ,

Is that the new Vario LG?

How much did those cost and where did you get them from. They look like a higher clearance, and a little beefier.

[dreslism]

dreslism:

Awesome post. Thank you for the info! So my best bet is to get the charger/balancer and battery kit from Gary. Sounds good. I really want to get the A50-12S motor, speed controller, and eCCPM conversion but he is sold out at the moment. Darn!

So, it seems like these eMoli batteries are really heavy but worth it as they are affodable and robust! Here are some questions:

1. Will the R50 Titan be able to lift the 12S battery setup with DJ's camera mount, and camera (with the eCCPM conversion and everything else stock, right out of hte box?)
2. Since I have to get the basics down first without the eCCPM conversion, or a camera mount/camera, how should I arrange my 12S setup (again, in stock form)? In other words, where the heck do I place the batteries and in what configuration?

Thanks again everyone for all of your help!

Well, DJ's mount should be much lighter than my underslung, so I would say without any problem it would lift all that.

I fly 10s emoli and 11s emoli, and I can't tell the diff between them. The emoli cells are 100grams a piece, so your 12s would only be 100grams more than my 11, and I have no issues with my 11s.

The stock titan comes with 600 woodies. I would not trust those to anything but hovering around without a camera. I would not put my camera gear on it with the stock woodies.

Like I said, I have 5s and 6s to flyl 10s or 11s.

I mount them double stacked to the carbon fiber plate you posted under the heli. It is kind of a pain to rubberband and velcro them under there, so I just got some nice black G10 in my last Mcmasters order and may try the landing gear mount strips that DJ just posted as they seem easier to get at and slide the cg around. We'll see, always something to do...

What is Gary out of at the moment? YOu can get the tp1010 and 210v around at many other places if that is what he is out of.

If you buy the titan from Gary, I think he includes the carbon plate on the bottom in his kits.

[AZ ChopperCam]

DJ,

Is that the new Vario LG?

How much did those cost and where did you get them from. They look like a higher clearance, and a little beefier.

yup Vario part #125. I bough 4 sets. I paid abut $35 for each set. heavy duty gear. taller and wider. very stout.

[GGoodrum]

Wow, so many posts, in such a short time. :)

I believe there are three Raptor setups that I would consider "optimum" for AP/AV work. The first is basically the setup that DJ is flying, which is a Hacker A50-12L in a stretched Raptor with 660-680 blades and an 11s-5000 LiPo setup. Using the standard R50 85T/10T gearing, you'll get a 100% h/s around 1650-1700, which I think is a good upper limit for these longer blade configurations. I don't think eMolis are really an option here, because I think the current draw is going to be too much, unless you go to 14s and we don't have a controller option for this yet.

With a "standard" Raptor Titan, with 600-620 blades, I definitely think eMolis will work quite well. I also think 12S is the best option, as it will maximize the durations. A 12s eMoli configuration will have roughly the same voltage level as an 11s LiPo setup, so the motor setups can be the same. Again, I think a great LiPo choice is an 11s-5000 configuration. For motors, there are two I'd recommend, the Hacker A50-16S and an Actro 24-5. With the A50-16S, I'd use the 85T/10T R50 gearset, and with the 24-5 the R30's 8T/9T combo is better. With either of these combos, the 100% h/s will be around 1800-1830. Personally, I like having the option of a bit more power, especially when landing, so what I do is set IDLE 2 to 100% and dial down IDLE 1 to about 1600, which can be used for most of the flight.

I still don't have accurate duration numbers for my eMoli setup (Titan, 620 NHP blades, A50-16S, 12s-eMolis...), as I'm still working on installing a prototype Askman front mount with full 3-axis active stabilization. I'm guessing I'll be able to get about 8-9 minutes, with an HC1/HC3 HD camera on the mount.

I think the v28 pack pricing has stabilized around $170 a pair. That makes it pretty inexpensive to get several setups, which should provide the flexibility to support most scenarios.

I definitely think the TP-1010C/TP-210C charger/balancer combo is really the only bulletproof charging setup out there. The charger makes us of the balancer's direct access to each cell/parallel block in order to monitor the charging process. If it detects that any one cell/block's voltage rises above 4.3V, it shuts down the charger, before the cell can go into thermal runaway.

Although not listed on my site yet, I can offer complete eTitan AP/AV packages that offer quite a bit off the individual prices. If you don't already have a Raptor to convert, this is absolutely the least expensive way to go. :)

The only thing I'm out of at the moment is Phx HV 85 controllers. I've had 50 more on order for about 4 weeks now. Hopefully, it won't be too much longer.

-- Gary

[GGoodrum]

I forgot to add that Askman has done a new G10 baseplate, sort of like DJ's, with "wings" on either side for side mounting the packs. These will be offered as a new option for the AP/AV packages.

-- Gary

[askman]

the winged battery plate will be included with my mount. I just cut some from 1/16" g-10, and I think it is strong enough for most people. 1/8" g-10 one is like a tank. I will probably include 1/16" version. I may offer 2mm CF version as well.

[Ziggy2711]

Gary,

Yeah man! You're post rocks! :D I think I got a little confused. I thought you meant the A50-12S is the best engine when you stated:

I also think 12S is the best option, as it will maximize the durations....

I now understand you meant the 12s eMoli is the best battery setup and that I should go with the Hacker 16S. I have to ask you: what are the major differences between the Hacker 12s and 16s? I would guess it's a power issue, but I'm new and am probably wrong. Let me know if you can really soon (or anybody else who knows) so I can order sometime tomorrow. (my wife goes out of town without the credit card!!! :mrgreen: )

[dreslism]

Gary,

Yeah man! You're post rocks! :D I think I got a little confused. I thought you meant the A50-12S is the best engine when you stated:

I also think 12S is the best option, as it will maximize the durations....

I now understand you meant the 12s eMoli is the best battery setup and that I should go with the Hacker 16S.

Ziggy, thanks for clarifying that for us. I read it the exact same way you did and thought what the heck is Gary talking about.

I wish we had known about the 16s when I bought my 12s a short while ago.

Anyone want to buy an A50-12S? :D

[Ziggy2711]

Scott,

So, I wasn't the only one that got confused. Yippie!! There is a lot of stuff just going over my head! (lack of experience) I think there are two many two-digit numbers with one letter attached and vice versa. I get the darn things all confused sometimes:

A50
12S
16S
10S
11S
85T
10T

then:
G10
HC1
HC3
R50
ESC
H/S

Ok, I'll stop now. :D Seriously though, I'm really curious to learn the main differences between the Hacker 12S and 16S. Try Ebay for the 12S or make a new topic post in here???

[AZ ChopperCam]

let's not forget ATV, D/R, mah, CF, kV, A, PPM, PCM, HH, arggghhhh!!!!! so many!

I love my 12L but you MUST swing at least 660's in order to make it work cause it's too low kV for anything smaller.

I tried an 11S 5000 pack yesterday and the increased headspeed was nice but I'm not sure it was worth the extra $370 for the 6s pack that it cost me to try it.

anyone want a brand new 6s 5000 pack with only 3 cycles on it ???! :roll:

[BladeWaxer]

Yes, and there's AGL, AMA MTBF, oz/sqft, etc...yes, so many!

About the 6s pack...what brand?

Also, are you going with the standard "Dakine Discount"? lol

[Ziggy2711]

Hey guys. Is this the correct type of battery I need to purchase from ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260011386248&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=016#ebayphotohosting


Thanks!

[AZ ChopperCam]

yes sir! that's them

[dreslism]

Hey guys. Is this the correct type of battery I need to purchase from ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260011386248&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=016#ebayphotohosting


Thanks!

Yes, and that is a great price for 2 packs. I got mine months ago for $165 for 2, then they shot up to ~$99 a pack, but seem to have come back down.

Sometimes they are hard to find. Searching for 48-11-2830 can help find them on ebay.

[tcgliderguy]

This is the outfit that I bought my two packs from... they arrived in two days after I PayPal'ed the money to them...... The packs were just as described... brand new. So what's the first thing I do? Tear the Hell of out them...and throw all the pretty parts away! My father must be spinning in his grave...... :-)

-Taylor

Hey guys. Is this the correct type of battery I need to purchase from ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260011386248&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=016#ebayphotohosting


Thanks!

Yes, and that is a great price for 2 packs. I got mine months ago for $165 for 2, then they shot up to ~$99 a pack, but seem to have come back down.

Sometimes they are hard to find. Searching for 48-11-2830 can help find them on ebay.

[GGoodrum]

Sorry for the confusion. :)

The difference between the A50-12S and the A50-16S is that the 16S has a lower kV, 488 for the -12S and 380 for the 16S. The way the Hackers are named, the "A" designates the A-series of outrunner motors, the "50" is the diameter, the 12 or the 16 is the number of winds and the "S" or "L" stands for either a "short" or "long" can length. The A50-12L is basically a longer can version of the A50-12S, but the kV drops to about 348.

Because the gearing choices are limited in the Raptors to either the standard Raptor 50's 85T main gear with a 10T pinion, or the Raptor 30's 86T main gear and 9T pinion, if you want a lower headspeed for AP/AV work, it is better to use a lower kV motor. Lately, in the 3D setups were doing with Raptors, we're running headspeeds around 2250-2300 for 600 blades, and 2200-2250 for 620s, both with +/- 13 degrees of pitch. To get those headspeeds, we're running an Actro 24-4 with a 10s-3700 setup and the 86T/9T gearset, and an A50-12S with an 11s-3300 configuration and the 85T/10T gearing. It has been my limited experience so far that for a Raptor doing AP/AV work, a headspeed around 1600-1650 seems to be the smoothest with 620 blades. I think DJ's stretched setup with 660s, he gets good results with a h/s around 1500-1600. With y AP/AV setups, I like the option of having a bit more power available, so I try and optimise the 100% h/s around 1800-1850, which I set for IDLE 2, and then dial down the governor in IDLE 1 to about 1650. With the A50-16S, the 85T/10T gears and either an 11s LiPo setup or a 12s eMoli configuration, I get around 1800-1820 rpm, which is perfect. :)

-- Gary

[dreslism]

Gary,

thanks for the reply on the above hacker info.

I bought a A50-12s from you months ago when you first got some in. You guys are were running them for 3d setups.

I have my headspeed dialed down to about 1650-1700 right now.

I think the A50-16s would be better as I would not need to dial down the headspeed as much if any.

I also think the A50-16s would run cooler than the A50-12s.

Do you think the A50-16s will provide more runtime than the A50-12s?

If you think it will, I'll guess I'll order one up.

I am running emoli's with 10s and 11s setup.

Thanks,

[GGoodrum]

Until I can do some more testing, I don't know what the difference in run times might be. My general sense is yes, as the whole setup will run more efficiently.

-- Gary

[Ziggy2711]

Ok, I have the batteries ordered from ebay, and the engine gear ordered from Gary except the ESC (is that the correct abbreviation)?

Gary: Thank you for the post on the 12S and 16S. EVERYTHING between the two completely makes sense now.

For everyone: So, I'm not a heli pilot as you know but have had plently of time (8 months) mastering everything possible in Real Flight. I even use the cockpit view as a video camera, trying to fly it as smooth as possible! :lol: Many of you mention "100% h/s at idle 2 (or 1)" and then give an rpm of your choice. Here are my quesitons:

1. For h/s, I'm guessing you mean the headspeed, correct?
2. When you mention idle 1 or 2, is that the switch on the Real Flight sim transmitter on the upper left? I use that a lot to change my power settings all the time but have no idea what it is "officially" for. I have always guessed it is to change power settings for different types of 3d manuevers for more juice, etc.
3. If the above is correct, why is there an idle setting where if the throttle is at 0%, the blades don't rotate? Then if you go 20%, it rotates but not enough to get you off the ground?? Is there a reason to have this kind of engine "slack"?? You can't do anything such as fly, so why is it there? Perhaps to check the engine is working ok????

For the record I do understand the on/off switch on the upper right hand side of the transmitter, which I have been using a lot to practice autorotations but the idle thing is a mystery. Knowing all of your combined knowledge in here, you will all hook me up real quick. :noteworthy

Thanks!

[AZ ChopperCam]

idle up is used for aerobatic flight where you need to keep power to the rotor while the blades are at negative pitch. basically on a nitro bird the idle up throttle curve looks like a "V" instead of a linear progression.

For AP/AV flight there are other uses for idle up. You can set the curve to give you different headspeeds. Since the ESC is run in governer mode the speed of the blades is determined by the amount of throttle is set in the curve. In electrics "curve" is not really a curve at all but usually a flat line across the board. something like 0,90,90,90,90 for normal and 90,90,90,90,90 for idle 1 and maybe 100,100,100,100,100 for idle 2.

[tcgliderguy]

DJ,

I'm trying to wrap my head around your previous statement....

>For AP/AV flight there are other uses for idle up. You can set the curve to give you different headspeeds. Since the ESC is run in governer mode the speed of the blades is determined by the amount of throttle is set in the curve. In electrics "curve" is not really a curve at all but usually a flat line across the board. something like 0,90,90,90,90 for normal and 90,90,90,90,90 for idle 1 and maybe 100,100,100,100,100 for idle 2. <

The way I am reading this..... in the Normal flight mode... you're going from 0 throttle to 90% throttle in one step... while the pitch is presumably going from something like negative 5 degrees to zero... Which in my mind is going to give you a headspeed of a zillion RPM instantly....

If there was a setting on the Phoenix speed control to dial in the desired RPM, I could see how this could work..... but in reading through the instructions, all I find is the setting that turns on the High Speed Governor mode... nothing to set RPM. What am I missing here?

-Taylor

[AZ ChopperCam]

all I find is the setting that turns on the High Speed Governor mode... nothing to set RPM. What am I missing here?
In governer mode the headspeed is in proportion to the value on the throttle curve. 90% gives you 90% of the speed the motor can produce. The esc puts as much juice to the motor as it needs depending on load. at 0° pitch the load is almost zero so power output of the motor drops substantially but rpm stays the same.

It's not like a gasser or nitro bird without a governer where the numbers represent amount of power output. in electrics the throttle curve numbers represent rpm.

Also not all radios are the same. My JR 9303 is actually at 100% when the numbers on the curve read 75%. It gets a little confusing then as you have to do the math to properly extrapolate to get the true number.

[tcgliderguy]

O.K.... I think I am understanding this...... I also use a JR 9303.... so are you suggesting for the "Normal" mode, I start with 0-75-75-75-75-75-75 ? (The 9303 has seven steps on the curves graph....) and activate the HighSpeed Governor setting on the Phoenix 85 controller?

Thanks!

-Taylor