.50 OS or Electric

[Ziggy2711]

As some of you know, I am newbie trying to get my Raptor 50 Titan up and running for AP work. I am in the building process and haven't decided on my powerplant yet so I wanted to get as much of your professional feedback as possible:

Just to come out and ask: Will the OS .50 Hyper work for a Raptor Cam setup? It seems as if everyone is going electric but I was wondering if the .50 had enough power to lift everything? (let's say a canon 20d?) Or, does an ERaptor just blow the Hyper out of the water? I'm only asking since I am a tad limited with $$.

If I do go electric, is there an affordable way to purchase a battery pack? The TpPacks site says the pack I need for a Hacker A50-12S Outrunner is $609.99!?! Am I reading that correctly?

One of my most important questions: How many batteries do you take with you for your on-location AP work and what brand do you have?

Thank you all for your help. I sincerely appreciate it.
Ryan

[askman]

for affordable packs. you can go 10S emoli or find cheaper packs like truerc /xushobby ones. emoli will cost about 150 to make up per pack while truerc/xus will be about 250 per set for 2- 5S4000/4400s. with emolis, 3 sets will let you fly 8-10min/pack , but they charge in about 40min(3S) while cheaper lipos will take 1 hour to charge and let you fly 12min or so.

electric will be smoother and with less vibration while being really quiet. (allow you to fly anywhere without disturbing the neighbors) worth the extra cost, espeically since it is so clean.

[tcgliderguy]

[quote="Ziggy2711"]As some of you know, I am newbie trying to get my Raptor 50 Titan up and running for AP work. I am in the building process and haven't decided on my powerplant yet so I wanted to get as much of your professional feedback as possible:

For whatever it is worth... I am in process... RIGHT NOW.... of converting my Tiger50 (virtually identical to an eCCPM converted Raptor) to electric power. I've been flying a heavy camera (Nikon D70) around, with a standard OS 50 heli engine (not the Hyper).... at over 5000 feet above sea level.

To me, the issue isn't the power... it's the vibration... the smoke...the noise... and the SLIME. When my muffler fractured (probably due to the load of the surplus tail boom I grafted onto it to divert the smoke away from the camera....) I finally took the hint. I will be ordering the Hacker electric conversion kit from Gary Goodrum ( www.tppacks.com) tomorrow....

So... to answer your question..... the Raptor Titan with a Hyper will have plenty of power for doing AP work... if you don't mind the smoke, noise, oil, and having to schlepp all the starting gear, fuel, etc. around with you....

Hope this helps!

-Taylor

[GGoodrum]

Well, I'm obviously biased (:)), but I think you can maybe have your cake and eat it too, if you go the eMoli route. These cells come from Milwaukee v28 Lithium-Ion power tool packs (there are 7 3000 mAh cells in each v28 pack...), which came out about 6 months ago. Although heavier than "regular" LiPo cells, they do have some unique advantages that make them well-suited to all but the most intense 3D helicopter applications. The are extremely "robust", in that they are very crash worthy, can be drained down farther than a LiPo, without worrying about "puffing" a cell and can be recharged at a rate as high as 3C, which means about 20 minutes.

I believe you will be able to get 8-10 minute durations on a Titan, with a reasonably efficient AP/AV-optimized setup, and a 12s-3000 eMoli configuration (two 6s packs in series...). Since the v28 packs are quite affordable (the going rate seems to be about $170 for two V28 packs, or about $12 a cell...), you can have 2-3 complete setups for under what one LiPo AP setup will cost you. With 3 12s sets, and 10 minute durations, you can pretty much fly continuously.

-- Gary

[WillJames]

You give a very convincing argument to use the eMoli cells in AP Gary. :idea:

[tcgliderguy]

Gary,

What is your recommendation for a charger for eMoli packs?...... and what about balancers, etc.?

Thanks!

-Taylor

[AZ ChopperCam]

I'd go emoli for video if it wasn't for the fact that they are heavier and give up less flight time. I'm already pretty much gross weight maxed on my E-RaptorCam and for video I need at least 10 minutes worth of time.

for photo work though I think I'll make up a 12s emoli pack. my still camera weighs about half as the video camera and I only need about 5-7 minutes of flight to get the shots.

[Ziggy2711]

Wow! Thank you for the replies! I'm getting more exicted as my ship gets built (although my wife isn't since the $ is "being thrown out the window"). By the way, I really like the JR 9303 I purchased today. Nice feel.

Taylor: I don't know what it is, but there is something about your reply that made me decide NOT to use nitro. I guess it's just not worth the headaches, slop, and mess! Your post made me flashback to my RC airplane days and the annoying job of cleaning them constantly.

Gary, askman: I really like the 12s-3000 v28 eMoli configuration (two 6s packs in series) option. Sounds like the best bang for my buck at this time. However, I could not find their website to order. Do any of you have their contact info or web info? Also, what type of charger do these batteries require? I'm guessing I can find it on their website (if someone has it).

Last question: Gary, you said I believe you will be able to get 8-10 minute durations on a Titan, with a reasonably efficient AP/AV-optimized setup,

In your opinion, what is the ideal setup for an efficient AP/AV rig? I'm guessing the eCCPM conversion, but anything else? For now, I plan on going with the conversion and the Hacker 12s motor, but not aware of anything else.


Thank you all for your help!
Ryan

[askman]

only way to get emoli is to take apart milwaukie v28 power tool battery packs. each pack has 7 cells in it. so 14 cells for 170bucks or so on ebay. 5 packs will give you two 12 and one 11 cell pack. :)

[Ziggy2711]

Hmmmm.....I'm not too excited about bidding on ebay but I did find this:

http://www.m2energysolutions.com/products2.html

[askman]

well, it cost bit more than ebay, but you don't have to take it apart. :)

[tcgliderguy]

Hey Ziggy....

There is a pretty good instructional video on how to build packs from the cells in the Milwaukee V28 battery packs at

http://www.swift-tuning.com/videos.php

Down in the "Files" section on that page is the Emoli Build Video... and an Emoli Build PDF.....

I ordered two V28 packs off E-Bay this morning for $188 including shipping..... It was a Buy It Now deal... so there should be more available.

Hope this helps!

-Taylor

[Ziggy2711]

Awesome Taylor! Thanks for the link. After looking at the video, I feel a lot more confident if I do go the ebay route. However, it still looks to be somewhat cheaper if I go off the other site. $14 per cell @ 6 cells=$84. For two 6 packs=$168. I guess it depends on the availability since that website is currently sold out. If I do, I will definately purchase the Battery Construciton Kit from Gary's site.

Also, what does a balancer do? Does it work in conjunction with the charger to insure all cells are equal strenth (hence balancer)? I guess I can also buy the 10-Cell Auto Balancer/Charger Combo from his site as well.

He's a one stop shop! :D

[askman]

TP1010 balancer/charger is probably the one to recommend. :)


gary is your man for this stuff.

[AZ ChopperCam]

thats the combo I have and it's great!

[dreslism]

Ziggy,

Just thought I'd chime in. I bought the Hacker A50 and raptor titan, eccpm setup from Gary.

I use the emoli's and the TP1010 charge and 210v balancer. Love the charger and balancer, when it first came out, I said no way I would pay that much for a charger and balancer, now I look back and say how did I live without this thing. It is basically foolproof.

I had 3 emoli packs around, so I built 3 5s and 1 6s. With this setup, I run a 10s and an 11s, so I have 2 complete flight packs for $270 plus some wire and shrink.

I have tested my packs without camera mount, and on a windy day, I get 8-9 minutes before they dump.

Be aware, when these packs dump (you'll hear the headspeed start to drop off), you have about 30 -40 seconds to get down, or it will land itself, and you will not have enough to lift off again if you need to set it down on something smoother.

Anyhow, because of my 10s and 11s times, I fly for 5 minutes via timer and land.

I have a HCS sport 30 knockoff mount that weighs about 3 pounds, and my camera is about 13 ounces. I also have a downlink, second Rx, and 2 cell lipo on the mount. It lifts it no problem at all, and on a photo shoot, I have yet to need 5 minutes to get the shots I want. (oh yeah, I also have an ap2000i) on mine and ir sensor which is another couple of ounces.

My scale only goes to 5 pounds, so I have yet to get an auw.

I usually land with a minute to spare if not more on the 5 minute timer.

You can look at the daily picture thread and see many posts of my shots from this heli.

I have flown it enough that I have lost track of how many flights I have on it. I'd guess around 100 flights and growing daily. :mrgreen:

I am looking into upgrading to a Rebel XT and a 20mm lens, so my camera weight will go up a little, but I still think it will not be a problem.

I might look into start actually caring about the weight of some of the stuff I have on there to shave a few ounces here and there, so when the new camera comes, my auw will be the same.

You may get longer flight times with the 12s as it should draw less amps. I would love to know how much you get with a fully loaded system on 12s when you get your system up and running.

Just do the buy it now on ebay for the emoli, no bidding required.

[tcgliderguy]

Hey Scott....

Which blades are you running on your Titan Raptor?

-Taylor

[dreslism]

Hey Scott....

Which blades are you running on your Titan Raptor?

-Taylor

Oh yeah, I forgot to list that.

I am using the TT 600 carbons ($70).

I want to find some semi sym 620's, but I don't think I will be able to.

I also want to use those 660 semi's that DJ found (they were like $70), but I think I would have to stretch the titan to do that, and it is big enough already for traveling with it, and lengthening the boom another inch or 2 will make it real dificult to transport for me.

[Ziggy2711]

dreslism:

Awesome post. Thank you for the info! So my best bet is to get the charger/balancer and battery kit from Gary. Sounds good. I really want to get the A50-12S motor, speed controller, and eCCPM conversion but he is sold out at the moment. Darn!

So, it seems like these eMoli batteries are really heavy but worth it as they are affodable and robust! Here are some questions:

1. Will the R50 Titan be able to lift the 12S battery setup with DJ's camera mount, and camera (with the eCCPM conversion and everything else stock, right out of hte box?)
2. Since I have to get the basics down first without the eCCPM conversion, or a camera mount/camera, how should I arrange my 12S setup (again, in stock form)? In other words, where the heck do I place the batteries and in what configuration?

Thanks again everyone for all of your help!

[WillJames]

I agree with Ziggy, awesome post Scott!!

I am really looking forward to receiving my E-RaptorCam from DJ myself. I have a Cybershot W100 8.1 mega pixel to fly that weighs 7.5 (without micro servo taped on to push the shutter)

Hope to put it to work.

Thanks for sharing all the great shots and information!!

[AZ ChopperCam]

1. Will the R50 Titan be able to lift the 12S battery setup with DJ's camera mount, and camera (with the eCCPM conversion and everything else stock, right out of hte box?)

yeah it should but you'd be much happier going to the 660 semi-sym blades or 680 syms. although if you did that you'd want to use the 12L motor and not the 12S.

I just bought a 6s5000 and have put it with a 5s5000 for 11s5000. I flew it yesterday. the slightly increased headspeed was nice. Run time was about the same but it held up the rotor rpm's pretty much until the end of the flight. Too early to tell if I like 11s over 10s (lipos not emoli's)

as for configuration, I made a trak that mounts under the heli between the skids and it allows me to mount the batts on either side of the frames. I'm also working on a newer version which allows the batts to mount to either side fo the frames but on a plate that is bolted to the landing skids. I'll post up some pics when I'm done with that.

[Ziggy2711]

DJ,

The strech conversion sounds good but I think I might try to explore the stock setup first. In addition, I remembered what Gary mentioned in another post:

This (the strech conversion) would also work with the electric conversions, but I'm not sure it's really neccesary. With the Titan extended boom/belt, you can run 620s, and you can run a lot more power than the glow versions. If you also do the eCCPM conversion, and get rid of most, or all, of the servo tray, you can lose close to a pound of weight. Combine all that together and you have a system that could lift half of Nevada.

Seriously, my A50-12S- powered Raptor has no problem lifting a Sony HDR-FX1 high definition camera, and it weighs over 4 pounds. I just got the smaller HDR-HC3, which is much lighter (a little over 1 pound...), so I really don't think I need anything bigger. I find for most of the kind of real estate work I've been doing, even the Raptor is a bit too much to feel comfortable with in limited space.........

-- Gary


Once my Raptor is complete and when I eventually add the eCCPM for AP/AV work, and I practice and practice more, the heaviest camera I plan on strapping on is the Sony HC3 video and a Canon 10D digital (maybe my 20D).

Also, where can I purchase a trak like the one you have DJ? I'm not 100% sure, but I think I found one that might be similiar (http://www.helihobby.com/html/raptor_heli.html). I will try to upload an image of (and this will be my very first image attempt if I get it right).

In general though, it seems that I should mount the eMoli's wherever convenient in my stock setup, that helps get the CG correct. Does that sound about right? Still not sure if I should mount them all flat, or a 3 on top of 3 configuration. :?:

Thanks!!!

[AZ ChopperCam]

I made my own tray from G10 sheet. but my new mounting method is much simpler and a bit lighter as well. I will shoot some pics now and post in a minute.

[AZ ChopperCam]

I am going to paint the mounts flat black. they are shown in natural G10 finish here. They are screwed to the landing gear legs via some countersink 4mm screws/locknuts

[Ziggy2711]

Hmmm.....thanks for the info and pic DJ. However, I have to ask:
Why does your setup look so lightweight? Compared to how I am used to seeing Raptors, you are obviously shedding some major pounds, am I right? In this photo, you obviously have the eCCPM conversion, the tray you mentioned, and the new side mounts. Anything else? (I don't know maybe a new frame?)

Do you think the tray image I attached and your new battery mount would work successfully together?

Last big question for now (sorry, I am full of them): Would you happen to have an estimate for a complete, ready to bolt-on camera rig? :D Just thought I'd ask.

Thanks man!