Yet another T700E - Danal's!

[Danal Estes]

Here's the final decided list, much of this is already in hand, the few exceptions are shown as "(backorder)":


Mechanics: Trex 700
Frame: Suzi-Hans (http://www.3dhelishop.com/products)
Head: Mikado Flybarless head conversion (http://www.readyheli.com/MIK4239_V_Bar_Rotor_Head_Conversion_For_Align_Trex _p/mik4239.htm)
Main blades: Radix 890 or 710 Stick Banger (or maybe SAB Red Devil 710)
FSS: Mikado V-Bar Flight Stabilization system (http://www.readyheli.com/MIK4010_V_Bar_Flybarless_Stabilization_System_p/mik4010.htm) (full size)
Receiver: The new AR7600 (http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPMAR7600) fed from the Jive's BEC; no other regulators, everything will run at 6V, including the tail. (Backorder, will go with a 9 Channel if they don't become availabile in time)
Cyclic Servos: JR8717s
Tail Servo: BLS251
ESC: Kontronik Jive 80+HV (http://www.kontronik.com/regler-einzeln/kontronik-jive_en.html) (On backorder)
Batteries: Turnigy 5000mAh 6S 20C Lipo Packs (http://hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9176)
I ordered 8 of these packs to have 4 sets at 12s
Connectors: Going to stick with Dean's, as it appears currents on a 12s setup are well within their range. Note: I recently saw Traxxas connectors (http://www.traxxas.com/products/accessories/trx_accessories_connector.htm), got to play with them hands on. Very nice. I bought a handful and will be considering changing all my stuff over to these connectors. Maybe.
Motor: X-ERA 4030/3Y-470 (http://www.xeramotors.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&product_id=6&category_id=1) (Backorder)

Things that are TBD, please help me pick:

Main gear. Considering a 1.0 gear. Microheli?


Almost final... :)

[Shockwave 3K]

If you want the lightest and best performing conversion get Ray Nemovi's

[JJ101]

Scorpion HK4035-500KV - not the 560

Go with the lower kv motor and pick up both 14t and 15t pinions - :thumbup:

I'm gonna start out w/the 15t, and the maiden should be tomorrow - :)







JJ :)

[GenReaper]

2 things.

Get the 500Kv motor.
560 with 14 tooth is 2230 RPM on the head Flybarless. i have tached mine various times.
Even with 14 tooth it will eat main gears.

Get the 500Kv motor
You will need a 16+ tooth pinion or or even 17 other wise HS will be way low.
Running 16 tooth myself and 100% flat throttle is only 2050 and drops under load.

Go for SAB Red Devil 710s, heaps better than Radix IMO and more efficient.

Run a seperate RX pack, Outrage 2s2p5000 is a good choice.
Better flight times too when not drawing off the Main packs.

Tail Servo BLS251.

[cbdane]

The Heli-Chris frameset is top-shelf. Definitely recommend it. Combine this with the Vstabi and a nice flybarless head and you've got a great set up, in my experience. If you don't go with the Bonta head, consider shortening the mainshaft. Moving the battery mass closer to the disk makes it quicker on the controls.

My new 700E flybarless - HeliFreak


As others have said, the 500kV is the ticket. The Scorpion runs great but is hot as a pistol at the end of the flight (~160F in moderate weather). If you want to do it up absolutely first class, go with the Pyro 30-12 (510kV).

Kontronik Pyro 30-12 first tests - HeliFreak


Don't forget the Mod1.0 maingear. Absolutely required if you want to use the power system to its limit. I actually stripped one of Miro's (FAD) gears in a blast out of a hover this morning.

Good choice on the batteries, IMHO.

Zippy-H vs. Turnigy 15C - first report - HeliFreak

[cbdane]

If you want the lightest and best performing conversion get Ray Nemovi's

Wow, didn't realize that you were flying this one. Have you posted photos? I'm very intrerested to compare.

[Shockwave 3K]

Wow, didn't realize that you were flying this one. Have you posted photos? I'm very intrerested to compare.
Troll

[cbdane]

Troll

My apology. It's hard to keep up with what everyone's flying these days. Life is busy. ;)

I don't know a lot about this conversion but I'm still interested in learning more.

[Ultraviolet]

14S input 10 amp continuous HV BEC.

http://www.helidirect.com/western-robotics-hercules-super-bec-14s-10a15a-peak-p-11292.hdx

[Shockwave 3K]

Ray's conversion
qqE7lar-UHc&feature=channel_page

[cgbole]

Ray's works fine..So did my mine i did at about the same time Ray did... But the motor is still hanging down below the center line of the heli. Putting it "up top" really improves the way the heli flys. Mine flips and rolls like it's on a wire.. This probly dosen't matter much to Jamie's flying abilities.. But the rest of us mortal ham fisted schleps...:) Need the help! (My opinion)
chuck

[Danal Estes]

OK, I've updated the first post, per the advice and my shopping today, I bought a BLS251 for the tail (and a 700 Kit and the 8717s)

I've noted the 500KV Scorpion and added the Kontronik.
Noted the super-bec.

Regarding Ray's conversion... it is a "Motor on Bottom", correct? If so, not interested.

Interesting comment on the SAB Red Devil blades. I'll research the some more. I'm currently flying my T700N on Radix 710SB and I like them. Still, I'll look at the SABs.

[Danal Estes]

Run a seperate RX pack, Outrage 2s2p5000 is a good choice.
Better flight times too when not drawing off the Main packs.

Absolutely true! But not enough to notice. ;)

Let's say that, during flight, the RX/Regulator/Servos setup draws a full amp from a 2S RX pack. I think the average is lower than that... but anyway... Assuming the nominal voltage of the 2S pack is 7.4V, then the total power is 1A*7.4V= 7.4 watts. Now, Assume the radio is on for 10 minutes. 10 min is 600 seconds. That's 600 seconds * 7.4 Watts = 4,440 Watt Seconds.

Say a 700E hovers at 30 amps at 45 volts. That's 30A*45V=1350 Watts. Assume we fly for 8 minutes. That's 480 Seconds times 1350 watts = 648,000 Watt Seconds.

Now, subtract the radio draw. 648,000 - 4,400 = 643,600. Turn that back into seconds by dividing by watts = 476.74 seconds. The radio draw cost us 3.26 seconds.

Assume I'm wrong about radio draw, instead of 1 amp average, it draws 3 amps average. That's still about 10 seconds of flight time. Assume we don't hover... that we fly 3D... the watt seconds consumed go WAY up... the radio remains fixed... so the ratio gets even more favorable.


So, running a BEC doesn't cost enough flight time to notice. Barometric pressure that day probably makes more difference.

[cbdane]

Motor:
Scorpion HK4035-500KV with 16 or 17 pinion
Kontronik Pyro 30-12 510KV with 16 or 17 pinion
Neu ?? with ?? pinion
Others ??

Lookin' great overall! Let me suggest, though, that the 11T Mod1.0 pinion is about perfect if you choose to run the FAD (or MicroHeli) 115T M1.0 main gear.

[GenReaper]

The problem with running a BEC off the main packs is that most BEC's are 3-10S so it will only be hooked up to one packs leads, i dont know of a BEC that handles 52 volts.

So if you run it off one flight pack and say draw 200-250 MAH per flight it will take longer to balance charge batterys, not only that the other battery will try pull more power thru the pack with less voltage which will unstabalise the packs so they are not in sync.

Sure it is minimal but hey your packs would be better off matched and not one pack pulling more than the other. If you went down that path you would want to label and rotate the packs so they both get the same usage and not have one getting hammered more than the other if you get my Jist.

Your choice mate but i am still advising to run a seperate RX pack and BEC off of that, the weight is nothing when you have 12S power and it helps balance out the heli a bit better as well allowing you to shift weight around so the COG is spot on.

Other than that, the setup sound good and yep go the Red Devils, i have let a few of my club members try them out on their 90s and they have noticed they do not have to use as much pitch it stationary flip and airleron rolls and you can hear the Nitros engine is much happier to sit on the Gov then the Radix blades. I have tried many different blades on my machine and Red Devils take the cake by a long shot and i am also getting longer flight times due to efficiency.

[Danal Estes]

Thanks guys! I'll add a 1.0 Main gear - Microheli or FAD.


Gen,

I hear you on pack imbalance. There is now a link in the first post to the Western Robotics BEC that handles 58V (e.g. 14s).

And, the SAB Red Devil blades sound great. I'll order at least a couple of sets and try them. Why 2 sets? There are a bunch of 700Ns around here, I'll loan the second set out and see if people like them.

[GenReaper]

HA HA if you loan the SAB's out make sure you get some collateral or they may do a runner with the blades, yep they are that good imo ;)

As for the BEC, if your happy to trust it running off that voltage go for it but i still prefer the trusty old RX pack and lower voltage BEC's.

[Danal Estes]

Another possible motor choice edited into the first post:

X-ERA 4035/2.5Y-480 (http://www.xeramotors.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=8&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1) or 4035/3Y-400 (http://www.xeramotors.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=9&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1)

Anyone flown these?

[cgbole]

I haven't flown the 4035 But i'm running a X era 4030 2.5y with a 15T pinion with a mod 7 main gear on 12s 3850's.. flys great, i need to weigh it and see how lite it is. I just bought a Xera 4030 3y (470Kv) that i'm going to run 14s 3850's on.. The weekend of the 4th it was around 100+ F and it was coming down at
140F after apx 4min... The X era motors are great IMO...
chuck

[Danal Estes]

X-Era is giving a lot of choices around 4030 v 4035 and KV ranges right in what we need. How to choose?

First, 4030 v 4035. Obviously, the physically bigger motor is going to be a tiny bit heavier. Seems to be about 40 to 45 grams.

Beyond that, I'm interested both long flights and good power. I like my T700N with OS91 and HB19 pipe; I like my flybarless 500 with 6s5000 Turnigy, stock motor, and 12T pinion. I'm an "smooth and aggressive sport" flyer, not an absolute "stick banger".

And, of course, larger pinion=more contact area=less problems.

Any thoughts on motor and KV on 12S?

I'm leaning toward the 4035/2.5Y-480 or the 4030/3Y-470. I'm not sure I can articulate why. :lol:

[F1 Rocket]

I'm running the Xera 4030-3Y (470 KV) on 12s 5000 with a 16T pinion (10.25:1). ESC is a Jive 80+HV. Its a sweet running combo.

Danny
Esprit Model/

[rcman]

Danal,

I have both frames, the Suzi-Hans and the Helichris if you would like any pictures of them side by side to help you decide between them.

As for the motor dude you can't go wrong with the Xera but I am having really good luck with the Pyro I really like it a lot. The down side it they are like twice the price of a Xera or a Scorpion.

David Olsen

[Danal Estes]

OK, I've locked in on frames. I just ordered the Suzi-Hans.

[Danal Estes]

And, changed my mind on the ESC. I'm going to run the Jive 80+HV. This also settles the BEC/regulator/voltage questions, I'll use the built in one. Everything will run at 6V, no special wiring harnesses required. This includes the tail. Several folks doing this, and the BL251 seems to be OK with extended use at 6V.

[harrier808]

I'm going to run the Jive 80+HV. This also settles the BEC/regulator/voltage questions, I'll use the built in one. Everything will run at 6V, no special wiring harnesses required. This includes the tail. Several folks doing this, and the BL251 seems to be OK with extended use at 6V.
thx Danal! your post made up my mind too. i was torn between the CC HV 110/ Western Hercules Super BEC combo, and the Jive 80 + HV w/ internal BEC.

i don't know why, but when i read your post, i thought to look up what Jan Henseleit is running on his 3D Rigid. whaddya know? Recommended controller: Kontronik Jive 80 + HV. bingo. if it's good enough for Jan, it's certainly good enough for me. ;)