Few quick questions on Ions

[OICU812]

Seriously considering a possible buy of an Ion a fellow has now available. Before proceeding I look to ask a few questions to all of you that know about these machines. First of all I am not new to E Helis, I own two Logo 14s, a Rex, and have had more than 6 other helis now come and gone. I do not know anyone who owns or has flown an Ion, so I am in the dark abit about this machine.

I currently own and fly Evo 3700mah 10S1P packs in my logo, can these be used on the Ion and will they be enough power. I am wondering as I see videos here I am abit surprised this Ion is a 10S machine as loaded up it is nearly double the weight of my Logos. Would I be dissapointed in the agility of an Ion compared to my Logos as they are extremely nimble...?
If the Ion is in fact a 10S machine where I could have a 5S1P on each side in series to make a 10S2P or use my current packs I do not understand why a Jazz 55-10-32 is not adequate enough as it is on my E Helis now and why so many are using the Hacker 77?
Lastly I guess I am looking for what is the now solid 3D performing setup in regards to motor and lipos, please share those quick thoughts if you have some. The seller wants and answer soon but I need to be confident in my mind it is right for me first. Thx if you can help clear the air abit for me, cheers.

[TomC]

Shawn,

I knew you could not resist looking at the Ion-x!

Your Evo20 packs will work fine. Using 2 of these in parallel (10s2p 7400's) will give you about the same power/agility as your Logo 14's, and about the same runtime (~10-12 min). One 10s1p pack, mounted as far forward as possible would probably work ok and would be even more ballistic, but 3D runtimes would only be about 5 minutes, and the higher C's may take a bit of a toll on cell cycle life. You would probably be better to start out by using them as 10s2p packs and go from there.

The Jazz 55 is not quite up to the job for 3D. The Hacker 77 heli esc is the cheapest one available to handle the 80-90Amp peaks that the Ion-x will typically put out.

If you search this forum. you will see the pro's and cons of motor selection. Basically, the inrunners, like the Hacker and Neu, with 2 stage gearing, are more efficient, but the Actro's, with single stage gearing, seem to pack a bit more initial punch.

90 sized heli's like the Ion-x, are a treat to fly but do not underestimate the time and cost it takes to get, and keep them flying well. Once you do, you'll be hooked as well! Best of luck.

Cheers,

Tom C

[WillJames]

Your Evo20 packs will work fine. Using 2 of these in parallel (10s2p 7400's) will give you about the same power/agility as your Logo 14's, and about the same runtime (~10-12 min). One 10s1p pack, mounted as far forward as possible would probably work ok and would be even more ballistic, but 3D runtimes would only be about 5 minutes, and the higher C's may take a bit of a toll on cell cycle life. You would probably be better to start out by using them as 10s2p packs and go from there.


You will get more like 5-6 minutes of flying from 2 of the 5s1p EVO packs in series to get 10s. I have been running the 5s1p 3700 EVO packs since early this year when they came out and LOVE them. Parallel wiring would give you 5s2p, not 10s.

I LOVE my Ion-X, search our video forum for Ion-X and you will see some of the 3D capabilities. Personally the Ion is my favorite machine I have ever owned and I have owned a LOT of machines.

[rfaster]

OiCU - I plan to steal the Jazz 55 from my Swift and test it on my Acto Ion-x for sport flying ONLY. If I was up to 3D- even mild 3D I'd probably go with the old stand-by hacker 70 that I fly on my Neu Ion.

Note - If the kit you buy does not come with a ESC -- Tony has a nice Schulze that would work like a champ *

[TomC]

Will,

He has single 10s1p packs on his Logo 14, not separate 5s1p packs (like us) so he needs to run them in parallel to get 10s2p, or just run them as a single stick for 10s1p.

Cheers,

Tom C

[rfaster]

Are the Evo 10S1P's heavier or lighter than the TP8000 setup?

[TomC]

Evo20 3700's are about half the weight.

Cheers,

Tom C

[rfaster]

WoW - Nice.

[TomC]

Ya but half the runtime as well!

Cheers,

Tom C

[rfaster]

I think I'm leaning towards - Light Ion with 5 to 7 minute flights - over Heavy Ion with 10 - 13. I would venture to guess that my Emoli 10S2P Ion is near the top of "HEAVY ION's W/Bat's" - and I get nice sport flights at 10 minutes - probably could go 13-14 and the packs come down warm at 110. When flying these back to back with Evo 3700's NF - the increased agility of the Ion usually wins me over :D

[TomC]

Holy Emoli's are only good for light/sport flying imop. I'm getting pretty sick and tired of hearing from guys who think they are a real alternative to good quality Lipos (like the Evo 20's) for 3D!

By the way, this is getting off the original topic guys!

Cheers,

Tom C

[rfaster]

Tom - If you read my posts I don't see how anyone could come to the conclustion that the Emoli's are 3D monsters... I think its pretty clear these are for SPORT. Idea being that folks who are not 3D masters - but want to fly a 90 size E and be able to afford the Batt's. Note- I subscribe to the expensive batteries are good club - in fact I'm a member with several sets of 3700 NF's and plan to pick up a few sets of the new TP4550's.

Ok - back to Topic...

[TomC]

Sorry mate, I'm just getting a bit tired of hearing about Emoli's on a lot of these forums. You spend a lot of $'s to equip a 30-60-90 electric heli so why cheap out on it's main power source?

Cheers,

Tom C

[WillJames]

Ouch, sorry Tom, I got confused when he was mentioning 5s1p.

Personally I really like the 5s1p 3700's for the Ion-X. 10 pounds makes for a great weight for it.

I am supposed to have some 4300's on the way to try, not here yet

[TomC]

Will,

Look forward to seeing how those 4300's go!

Cheers,

Tom C

[misskimo]

hey , last night , Karl ( freezin eskimo) took the Ion out fro a late afternoon spin , midnight RUN. first flight was with a set of 8000s , I let him fly it first , since hes been lazy and hasnt flown in 3 weeks . :mrgreen: any way , those 8000 fly and " handle" great , just feels and handles great in the air. he flew it for 4 min and I flew it for 3 min, great flight , and the next flight I told Karl you try the TP 4400s , ring it out good . and when the power fade land , well 4.30 seconds , its bone dry , I have a set of evo I havent tried , so I slapped those on , and flew the last flight with those , they do good , but the 4400 has it beat, another thing , flew for 4 min flat,
Will , must be the hacker restricking some power compared to the schulze ,
7 min flight time with the 8000s , uses about 7100 ma. mines a gas hog huh? :badair: schulze 40-160 , 710s VBlades ,
I did shoot a video of Karls first flight of the year with the Ion on useing the 4400 with my new camera. its twice as better as my old camera. if Karl want to , Ill post it on line .

Tony

[rfaster]

Tom - From what I can tell I'm the first person or one of the first folks to ask about Emoli's with the Ion-X here about a month and 1/2 ago. Up until then most if not all of the Emoli talk was for running 30 size E Heli's. I don't see it as going "CHEAP" - I see it as allowing folks who can afford the 90 size heli but can't or wont afford the "Overpriced Lipo's" - the ability to do it w/out spending 800 per flight. Previous to emoli's the cheapest you could fly a 90 size was $800 or a bit more... then 400 (evo 20's) ... now for 1/2 that or 2/3 that if you go 10S1P you have something folks can sport fly albeit light. $800 per flight is a HUGE barrier to E - ENTRY- and anything that can help break that down is great for our hobby IMO.

[misskimo]

hey rfaster , you know I have 28 of these cells , and I bet I could smoke them , Im just getting into 3D , so I limited to what I can use them for . yes they would fly it , and if you are into FFF only, with a few flips . +9 -9 degrees of pitch . and you can keep yourself toned down , they will work fine I suppose

[rfaster]

Misskimo - agreed the Emoli setup = Sport --- I'm looking forward to when my skillZ match my Evo3700 NF's or even better yet the new TP TP4550's -

[WillJames]

Post it up Tony, can't wait to see Karl wringing it out!!

I love watching people fly the Ion-X!!

[misskimo]

ok Will

[OICU812]

Ok sounds as if the best fit for a style like mine would be two 5S1P evo lipos. It is hard to believe that a 90 size ship like this would performa well on 10S at all, being that its rtf weight is likely 3-4 more lbs than my logos...all in the gearing and the blade lift that gives it the ability to do so I would imagine? Also likely another silly question, but are there different pinions to get to change up the gearing or is this all done by main gear and motor to acheive your target rpm on head?

[TomC]

Shawn,

For the stock 2 staged gearing, which I am familiar with, MA make secondary gears that go from 48T to 60T (48,50,52,54,55,56,58,60).

With the neu 1521/1.5 motor the 48-50T is great for 3D and the 52T is good for FAI.

The stock Hacker Ion-x motor (~C50-15XL) comes with a 54T gear that is great for 3D. The 55T is also popular since it gives a bit more torque. The 56T is great for FAI and light 3D (I use this one) and the 58-60T is best for AP work.

While you can get a lot of good info on the Web, and this forum has some of the best guys to pick brains, the best advice I can give you is to try to find someone locally that has an Ion-x. Even if you have to drive to Edmonton or Lethbridge, it will be well worth it. I'm lucky and have a few Ion-x guys within 1 1/2 hrs drive and we try to get together at least once a month to compare notes.

The Ion-x is a big project to tackle all by yourself, and I think you should try to see one perform up close before you jump in, imop. Best of luck.

Cheers,

Tom C

[OICU812]

Thanks for all that Tom, appreciated. How come I do not read or hear about people using the Castle Creations 85HV so they could use the governor mode? Are their issues with that esc on an Ion?

[OICU812]

Thanks for that mongo :glasses: