A stable HB CP2 is possible.

[ronaldf]

For all of you that are fighting the twitchy HoneyBee CP2, I have the following suggestions:

1. Balance and track the blades.
2. If you have the old style (round) head, replace it with the new “square” assembly.
3. Check the entire rotor assembly for proper setup. See the Finless videos (ccpm2).


I battled my Honeybee for a long time and was starting to get discouraged until I got my T-Rex together. What a difference. After hovering with the Rex, I decided to examine the HB closer. I found that the HoneyBee had the infamous sticky collective, and a tweaked feathering shaft. I installed the new “square head” assembly and corrected the feathering shaft assembly. It made a huge improvement. I then cut down the 315mm blades that came with the Rex and installed them on the HB. It now has a 22’ rotor disc diameter and fantastic stability with the stock plastic head. I even took the training gear off the HB. I now use both the Rex and HB to practice with. The anxiety level is still higher with the Rex, but I think it is because of the addition cost of the Rex! The Rex still has better stability. The next step is to install a brushless main motor on the HB.

[najib]

I am in the same situation.
I began with and HB CP2 on March 2006 , I have now also a T-REX 450SE and I start appreciating my HB CP2.
The main improvement for the HB CP2 is to put 2 AC motors

[najib]

by 2 AC motors (sorry AC is for "AntiCouple" french word) I mean twin tail motor

[raptor_0028]

The vendor did a few thing for me when I first bought my HBCP2. He flew it before my eyes. It was stable. As I'm mode 2, he did some soldering job to switch the controller from mode 1 to mode 2. Fine.

Then he went on and told me that he will increase the pitch for me so that there won't be much 'hard landing'. He adjusted some linkages, threw in a training skid, some spare parts in case I crash and also a pair of carbon fiber blades. I thanked him and carried my new baby home.

After I charged up the battery and fired it up, it was just impossible to fly.

1. Increasing the pitch mechanically will give you more pitch, but at a lower headspeed. And the radio doesn't let you adjust throttle/pitch curves. I decreased the pitch.
2. The blades were not exactly balanced. It was vibrating quite a lot. I balanced the blades and the vibration came down. Did the tracking too.
3. I took off the 1000mAh lipo (83g) and used a heavier 2200mAh (160g) instead. Now totalling 404g, it's even more stable at hovering. I'm still at hovering stage by the way.
4. Make sure the CG (center of gravity) is right under the main rotor.

Currently there is still some vibration. The 4-in-1 mixer-speed-gyro control system can be seen vibrating but the vibration is hardly noticeable on the main shaft.

I noticed that the distance between the weighing rings (on the flight paddles) are not equal. One side it's 55mm and 56mm on the other. I have yet to find a way to balance that (if need be).

Oh. There are two servos that sit side by side behind the rotor head assembly. On one side, the linkage is on the top hole (with the servo horn pointing somewhat 15 to 20 degrees downward). On the other side, it's on the middle hole (servo horn is almost level on this side). But the swash plate is level alright. Should I lengthen the linkage and use the middle hole? Should I try to level the servo horn too?

And another concern - HBCP2 uses brush motor and it can get real hot even after 3 minutes of flight. Do you really need to keep its temperature down? If so, how cool?

[ronaldf]

When you first power up, the servo arms should be at 90 degrees to the servo. This is with all Tx sticks and trims centered except for throttle/pitch which should be all the way down. The linkages should all be in the same holes and the swash level. The swash and head slider should be in the center of their allowable travel. With the motor leads unplugged, and in nornal mode(not idle up), as you increase the throttle, the blade pitch should go from 0 degrees to 10 degrees. In idle up, center throttle stick should give 0 degrees. Full throttle up should give 10 degree pitch and full throttle down should give negative 10 degree pitch. Watch the finless videos on ccpm setup. They are for a Rex with a programable Tx, but the basics can be applied to the HB.

The heavier batteries may be causing the increased heat. More weight, more power needed to lift it off the ground. I run two heat sinks on mine with 1300 LiPos. My HB weighs 253.2 grams with no battery. My 1000 LiPos weigh 60.9 gms and my 1300 LiPos weigh 99.2.

For vibration, make sure your blades are not too tight. Remove the blades and see if the vibration is still there. If so, the try centering the flybar and see if it gets better.
It takes a lot of tweeking to get everything set properly. Hy HB is stock out of the box except for the heat sinks, dean's antenna, and super skids. If you have the older style round head assembly, replace it with the new square style one. Also make sure the main and blade connecting shafts are not bent. It doesn't take much to bend them. Also make sure the blade shaft is correctly assembled. See http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452072.
I'm using a Futaba 7CHP Tx which makes fine tuning easier, but the heli still has to be set up mechanically first.

[raptor_0028]

When you first power up, the servo arms should be at 90 degrees to the servo.

I've tried reattaching the servo horns at 90 degrees but can't. With the transmitter stick and trim centered, it can be placed pointing slightly up or slightly down, but not 90 degrees. :(

[najib]

It is not necessary that the horn be at 90 degrees .
the most important is to have the swashplate horizontal
there is a superb howto for this . see www.bladecprepair.com

[raptor_0028]

It is not necessary that the horn be at 90 degrees .
the most important is to have the swashplate horizontal

Roger that.

Faced my second 'sticky collective problem' today. It suddenly jumped 3 feet into the air. I've never seen anything that could jump so fast before.

It came down quite fast and on its way down, the wooden blades hit a metal pole. The wrappings on the end gaped open on both blades. I thought it was okay to use CA to glue them back as I did for my Raptor 30. Big mistake! The blades went out of balance.

Brought it back to the shop, changed to a new pair of well balanced woodies and it stopped vibrating.

Also upgraded to Esky outrunner brushless motor. Had to add another ESC and do some soldering job to bring two pins on channel three on the original 4-in-1 controller circuit board to the middle so that it connects to both sides. Tremendous decrease in temperature from 112 degree celcius to 59 degree celcius on the motor.

I first thought the sticky collective problem was due to the extra play on the main shaft able to slide up and down like for 0.5mm. They have tightened the gap for me but I can feel the sticky collective is still there.

I have yet to find a good article to the solution of sticky collective problem. Anyone can help? TIA.

[ronaldf]

My link in my previous post discusses the sticky collective extensively. The new square style head assembly and making sure all the washers are installed properly should cure the sticky collective problem. It did mine. Higher head speed will add to the problem if the washers are not installed correctly.

The servo arms should be as close to 90 degrees as possible, if not at 90 the they should be equally "off center" and in the same direction. If not, as they swing through their arc. the linear travel of each control link will not be equal as compared to the others. This will cause the swash to tilt as the throttle/pitch is increased or decreased. You might try swapping the two rear servo arms. The splines in each arm are set up so you can rotate them 90 degees and it will change the angle that the arm will sit in relation to the servo.

Watch both of the "Finless" videos on ccpm setup videos. They will give you a better feel for the mechanical set up of a heli.

I just noticed that you have a Raptor - don't expect the HB to be as stable as the Raptor!

[raptor_0028]

My link in my previous post discusses the sticky collective extensively.

How did I miss that? Thanks! I tried taking apart the blade grips. Was able to correct one side but not the other as they have locktite the screws.

I just noticed that you have a Raptor - don't expect the HB to be as stable as the Raptor!

Yeah, thanks.

[ronaldf]

If you got the screw out on one side, the whole shaft will pull out, so you can correct the whole assembly. The factory workers are not careful when assembling the head unit. Mine had loctite on the bearings and washers. It had a variety of washers installed, half of which were wrong or incorrectly installed! Very poor quality control. Anyone buying a HB should check the entire assembly before trying to fly it. A skilled pilot can hide a lot of problems.

[raptor_0028]

You are right. Lots of loctite on the bearings and washers. I'll try to force the damn thing out later.

[wcc963]

It is not necessary that the horn be at 90 degrees .
the most important is to have the swashplate horizontal


this is not true and could be a problem in handleing. if the servo horn isnt at 90 to the servo movement one way will be hindered. the servo will move one way more than other, causing the control of the heli to be effected. the best setup would be to have the swashplate lvl and all servo horns at 90. I know that i had a handling problem because my servos wernt at 90.

[Gary JP4]

I noticed that the distance between the weighing rings (on the flight paddles) are not equal. One side it's 55mm and 56mm on the other. I have yet to find a way to balance that (if need be).

Did you ever address this problem. Loosen the set screws for the weights. Make sure each paddle is all the way on the flybar. If they are and there is the same mismatch to the paddles, loosen the set screws in head that hold the flybar in and adjust the whole flybar untill it has the same dimension on each side and retightn. Now you can slide the weights all the way out or where you like them (but the same dimension on each side).

[Rick Rotorhead]

Crikey! I've got a Twister CP which is a Blade/Honeybee CP variant. It has a stock brushed 370 sized motor and won't hardly lift off with a 117g 1250mah 3s lipo!!!! (it does fly with the stock 1000 sized 84g Lipo - for about 6 mins)
Motor does get hot even with a heat sink. Since the mechanics are essentially Blade CP, does this mean my main motor is dying. Set-up is purely stock. Any advice?