Complete noob, need advice on buying

[desk003]

I'd like to see how feasible it'd be for me to get an RC Heli to do some aerial shots. I've never flown a RC heli or plane before, so this would be my first one.

Really don't know anything, and I'm on a budget, I've seen some for around $200, and others for much much more than that. I'd rather get something now that could hold a camera rig rather than buying one that can't now and then being forced to upgrade.

I've read around, and it seems the best way to go in terms of power would be batts, simply because it'd be a pain in the ass because of the oil, getting the fuel, etc. Haven't really seen anything on the good side for fuel burning engines in aerial photography, so if anyone prefers them, I'd like to hear why.

I've got a Canon digital rebel xt, but would also like the option to do some videography as well with my vidcam.

Basically, I would like to know what I should buy, how much, roughly, it'd cost me for a good setup, (I wouldn't mind waiting a bit for the actual camera platform part, just buying the heli first to get the hang of it, etc) and where I should buy from.

Thanks in advance for the help :D

[Tonystott]

Welcome to the base of the learning cliff! There are a zillion choices, but I would suggest that as a minimum, you buy a heli at least the size of an Align Trex. Stay away from the ready-to-fly micros, as nothing from them will be usable as you upgrade.

Budget-wise, I'm afraid this aspect of the hobby is not cheap. Be prepared to spend upwards of $500 for the bare minimum, but probably more realistically $1000 if buying a radio worth keeping and components which are not scraping the barrel in terms of quality. Many heli addicts have learned the hard way that the expression "buy once buy right" is true. Buying a cheap version of anything tends to cost more in the long run, as you finish up replacing it with what you should have got in the first place.

Learning to fly a heli is a challenge in itself, so aerial photography is going to be on the back burner for quite a while. There are a couple of files worth getting to assist with the learning phase:- "Electric Helicopter Beginners Guide" by Toshi Morita (you can find it on RCGroups) and Radd's School (find it with Google). The information in these files will help a lot. Also, download all of Finless's instruction videos (find them on this site). Even if you don't buy a Trex, the videos will give you a solid understanding of how model helicopters go together and how to set them up.

Enjoy the journey!

[Brady Longmore]

my first advice for you would be to get yourself a good RC Heli simulator before YOU TAKE ANOTHER STEP.

I do think your thinking is in the right direction as far as deciding to get the heli that you will use for AP and learning with it. Why spend a bunch of money on a heli you aren't going to even use?

As far as gas power goes. It depends on what you really want to do with this. There are pros and cons to any power source you decide to go with. Gas definately has its positives. You have to be willing to go the extra mile and learn a thing or two about them. I know a guy who is filming AP for major Hollywood productions using a Gasser. And knowing him I don't think he'd go any other way.

Anyway, another thing I recommend is to start going through the past pages in this forum and others and read read read! You are not the first one to come along and ask this question. Go get some education by reading the other questions and answers on this forum and then you will be able to ask more knowledgable questions, and you will better understand the answers if you get a little background on the subject.

Other than that get a simulator. It will LITERALLY save you THOUSANDS of $$$

Good luck

[desk003]

Thanks guys. I've got some more to think about.

[enigma]

Reflex XTR!

[Ziggy2711]

Hey Desk,

Perhaps this will help as you do your research. I am a photographer and recently caught the bug to get into AP/AV work with an RC Heli. However, I do have 10 years experience with RC planes but none with helis. At the same time, I do have 8 months practice on an RC simulator and have practiced on the helis for days on end.

So far, I have spent around $3000 for my AP/AV future work which includes a brand new Raptor 50 Titan with top of the line everything.

My advice is to take the advice already given from the other members. Personally, I really believe in doing everything and anything to at least have the BEST setup possible so you spend LESS over time. Your spouse might hate you now, but you will enjoy the savings later.

[Rafael23cc]

I could agree that you don't want to boy something that you are not going to use later in your AP business, BUT you also mention that you have ZERO experience in RC.

Let me ask you a question: how good are you at video games? If the answer is that you are very good at hand eye coordination, then ignore the rest of this post. If you suck at video games then read on....

What makes you think that the helicopter that you buy today, is going to survive you learning on it and then converting it to an AP platform? Keep in mind that I started 15 years ago, and on a student budget, but my first helicopter was a complete disaster after I was done with it. Newer helicopters distributors have better parts supply systems in place, so I might be just blowing hot air.

I strongly suggest that you get a simulator and indeed prove to yourself that this is what you want to do. Do your homework and decide on a helicopter that would probably carry a camera, but if you destroy it in the learning process is not going to be the end of the world. YOU WILL CRASH the helicopter that you are trying to learn with. It is a fact. After a major re-built this heli could become a back-up to your primary AP platform.

For the fellow that told you that $500 or $1000 could get you a good system, I'd like to know where... I spent close to $1200 for an Upgraded Raptor 50, and I already had a radio, and ground equipment. That was buying a kit, engine, servos and gyro. Add a camera mount, a second radio and associated electronics to control the camera and mount and you could be looking at well over $2000.

This is just comparing to my latest purchase. Electrics are way more expensive than combustion engines.

Well I think I have expelled enough hot air already. Good luck in your quest. And welcome to this great hobby.

Rafael

[askman]

besides used heli, with trex or logo 10/swift, you could probably put a package together for about 1000 bucks. but that will be the start. :) heli AP is expensive proposition.

[Tonystott]

Rafael,
Given that he started out by mentioning a $200 RTF heli, I was pointing out that the minimum spend on a heli capable of hauling a light camera has to be at least $500-1000. You can get a Trex 450xl in the air for that. It wouldn't be ideal, but as a "proof of concept" it would do the job, and there are people doing that right now. I could point you at many fine pix and videos taking using this platform.

Clearly, the cost goes up exponentially with size, so it would be plain unrealistic to suggest to a beginner to start out with a Raptor 50 size heli, especially someone on a budget whose first mention of cost is $200.

[askman]

and for cheapest AP, there is always Slow stick. :) you can take great picture with them and you can get a cheap set together for about 200.

[Rafael23cc]

Tonystott:

I have seen what a Trex can do, and I have seen the pictures that people can take with them. It COULD be a good platform, for somebody that already knows how to fly. A Reality check is in order everytime that I hear somebody asking me if they could get into this hobby with $200. I always tell them what an AVERAGE SIZED helicopter costs. A 50 is an average sized helicopter.

If you want to take up AP as a hobby, a Trex could be your platform, but ask the people that are doing AP for a living for a reliable AP Platform. Then ask them if that platform is good for learning.

Rafael

[Tonystott]

Talking of reality checks, I suggest you have another read of the post at the top. I don't see any mention of him doing AP for a living, rather someone who is interested in having a go at AP. I too was trying to ensure he was aware that $200 won't buy anything worth having.

I hope you are not really suggesting that someone on a budget buys a Raptor 50 as their first helicopter? While a trex might well be less stable than "an average helicopter", beginner crashes won't send the learner bankrupt either.

If he gets the bug properly after learning to fly on a cheaper heli, he can then look to moving up to bigger ones

[Rafael23cc]

While a trex might well be less stable than "an average helicopter", beginner crashes won't send the learner bankrupt either.


Let's talk about micro and mini electrics then. I can't believe that people keem suggesting that a mini electric is a good place to start. The local hobby shop, although my personal friend, keeps 4-5 mini electrics stocked all the time, and they sell very good. Where do they go? Well out of more than 15 that have been sold in that shop in the last few months just ONE has come to me (the local club instructor) to try to learn to fly. After one or two sessions at the field, he never came back. The rest of them are probably in a trash can somewhere.

A TRex is a higher quality helicopter. I agree there, but is NOT a beginner helicopter. Some people have been very lucky with the Blade CP and the TRex, and if somebody asks me, I probably recommend one of those two. But I always tell them the broom and the pencil analogy:

Take a broom and balance it on the palm of your hand, fairly easy right? Now try the same thing with a pencil, and tell me what you think. It translates almost the same between a bigger heli and a mini electric.

I am not knocking down the mini electrics, some of them could be very good. That is where my question about the video games comes to play. I have seen people start with a mini electric and be successful. But the reality is that the odds are against you.

Rafael

[dreslism]

I'm with askman.

He says he has never flown anything before.

Buy a $30 slowstick airframe and put it in the air.

He can get all he needs to put it in the air for around $200, and he can put a small camera on it once he learns to fly it.

Crash that and you can get a slowstick glider kit for $19 to replace the parts as long as your motor is OK.

A *cheap* heli airframe is hundreds of dollars.

The SS is a proven airframe for MANY years.

This is a cheap way to see if you even like AP.

Granted you won't put a real camcorder on a SS, but you can turn your pocket cam VGA video on and get pretty darn good video that is 640x480 @ 30fps.

The SS plane experience will help you when you learn to fly a heli if you decide to go that route later.

[GGoodrum]

Rafael --

I've never heard the "broom and a pencil" analogy before, but that is right on the money. :) Micros are not easy to fly, especially if you don't have "young eyes".

With the fidelity of simulators these days, like Reflex XTR and/or RealFlight G3, I do think it is possible these days to bypass the "Corona step", many of us went through to learn the basics. Even with the stunning, photo-real graphics, it is still harder to fly with the simulators, in my opinion, than the real thing. The modeling, however, is pretty much spot-on, so I find that if you can fly well enough in the simulator, you'll do okay with a real model. The big difference is the "pucker factor" of flying scared (because you can't just hit the reset button... ;)). It helps if you have a model that your LHS stocks parts for, so you don't have to wait for parts.

The TRex is a great little machine, and flies more like a bigger model, not near "broom-size", but maybe more like a ruler. The problem is it is still a ***** to see. The minis, like a QJ/EP-8, or one of the new Hirobo Leptons are much easier to see, fly like much bigger models (a bigger ruler, like a yardstick...), but the problem is they tend to be as expensive as the bigger stuff, and parts are not so easy to get.

To me, the Logo 10 is still the best compromise between the small micro/mini stuff, and the bigger, easier-to-fly models, like a Raptor. It is a very stable platform (up to a baseball bat size now...) and makes a great base for camera rig. It is less expensive than a TRex 450SE and parts prices have come way down. If I was only going to have one helicopter, it would definately be a Logo 10.

-- Gary

[desk003]

Thanks guys.