FAI/F3C with a .50... some tips?

[wtr]

Allright, so i'm thinking about flying some competition F3C.
For the moment not the FAI schedule but the Sport schedule
It consists of some basic hovering manoevres without pirouettes and
a loop, roll, stall turn, split S and autorotation.

I only have a raptor 50 so that's what i have to fly with...

The hovering manoeuvres are the hardest...
It's like really hard to keep the heli on the spot...

I've got SAB blades, the black paddles, red dampers.
Everything is set up nicely and the heli runs smooth at 1600-1700rpm.

I don't really know what else i could do to make it fly a bit more stable.
Would it make a lot of difference if i would use flybar weights? (considering i already use the heavy, black paddles)

If anybody has any tips, i'd be happy to hear :D

For the moment i'm looking out to a Freya .60 or something like that
but it's rather expensive :?

[ShawnK]

If I'm not mistaken, the red dampeners are the hardest ones that TT provides. You may want to try softer head dampening, and lower your hovering headspeed to somewhere around 1500-1550 to start.

Yes, flybar weights will make a difference as well. Your hovering will become more stable, but so will your response upstairs.

Additionally, you may want to play around with dual rates and/or exponential in hover mode to reduce your total cyclic throw and deaden the response around center stick.

Overall, though, the biggest thing that will help your flying improve is practice, practice, practice. The weakest link in the system right now is not the machine, it's you. :wink: There's no single "magic setup" that'll instantly make you a better pilot.

If you'd like an example of what someone in a similar situation is doing, though, I'll tell you what I'm doing. I'm flying an Evo 50 with 600mm Hirobo fiberglass blades, stock Hirobo Evo 50 paddles with both sets of weights installed, 1530 rpm headspeed in Normal mode and 1930 in Idle-Up, with a combination of 60% dual rate and 20% expo in Normal mode, and just 25% expo (no dual rate) in Idle-Up (this is assuming a mechanical setup of 6 degrees cyclic). I have flybar weights coming as well... should be installed next week.

I think I'm starting to get into a sweet spot with this heli, but like I said before, it don't mean a thing if I don't go out there and fly! I'd just burn gallon after gallon of fuel if I were you.

[wtr]

yeah, practise is the most important, i know :D
It also seems that with the heli turned to the side you're not used too it's a lot harder
than the other side.

Maybe i'll put the blue dampers back in, lower the headspeed a little...

Thing is that I practise 3d with the same helicopter; so I try to get a reasonable
trade-off between fast response and stability. So i don't really want to make it an
all F3C heli. The only thing i can play with is paddles and different models in my
transmitter...

Also, i don't know whether there is a lot of difference between the .50 sized helis...
I heard that an Evo tracks a bit better than a Raptor but i've only once seen one
fly, so i can't really tell.

[slow]

My first F3C competition (not the FAI schedule either) was flown using my 50 beater (Caliber 5), setup for 3D.

This is what I changed to get it up to a reasonable level:
* Change the paddle to stock heavy ones
* Reset the flybar ratio to 1:1
* Verify that the machine had the CG spot on
* Change the horizontal stabilizer to a "non-3D" one
* Lowered the headspeed to just over 1500 rpm
* Flattened out the throttle and pitch curves around the hovering point
* Put in 50% DR and 40% expo on elevator and aileron
* Put in 40% expo on the rudder

I should have done a lot more, but I only got 24 hours notice (and practice) before my first event.

Oh, and as mentioned, _massive_ amounts of practice. :)

/James

[ShawnK]

I heard that an Evo tracks a bit better than a Raptor but i've only once seen one
fly, so i can't really tell.


Having owned both (an R50 and an Evo 50), I can tell you that I personally will never fly a Raptor again. The Evo is a far superior helicopter... the plastic formulation is sturdier than the Raptor, the head has more adjustability options, and (in my opinion) the tail tracks better. Hirobo's quality control is far better than Thunder Tiger's, also.

If you want to keep one machine to do both things (3D and FAI), that's all good and fine. Just be aware that those two disciplines call for different machine setups, so if you're trying to "do it all" with the Raptor, yo're going to have to make some compromises. Not that it can't be done, mind you... it's just that you're making a little more work for yourself.

I'm biased, but I think you should quit all that 3D stuff and really learn how to fly a helicopter by focusing on FAI. :mrgreen: (That's a joke... don't get all bent out of shape.)

[ShawnK]

Just a follow-up to you on what I've found - I installed some flybar weights on the Evo yesterday, and I've been very pleased with the response. The bird parks much better now, and I think the added weight with my current flybar ratio is just about spot-on. It definitely has a much more "deliberate" feel to the cyclic, so I ended up doing away with the expo in Normal mode altogether (now, I'm running only 60% dual rate) in order to give me a little more initial control authority around center.

The wind was blowing a good bit yesterday, so I found that I needed to steepen up my pitch curve a little bit, because I felt like I was getting too far behind the collective changes. I'm pretty close right now, but I'll fly it in this configuration for a couple gallons before I make any more adjustments.

The moral of the story is, what works for one person may not work for another. Untimately, it comes down to what you want the machine to feel like, and the only way you'll be able to discern that is to just practice until you drop. All that matters is that you are happy with the setup!

[Hummingbird3D]

you should quit all that 3D stuff and really learn how to fly a helicopter by focusing on FAI

Where does someone find out about flying FAI and how it looks done correctly. It's not normally seen at a flying field.

I like the idea of flying this style, but don't know the specifics on moves or names.

[Hinke]

Here's a link: http://www.f3c.se/docs/2006/sc4.f3c.06.Rev1.pdf

It's the international FAI-F3C program. USA has some other classes for beginners and up.

[Rocket Man]

Just a follow-up to you on what I've found - I installed some flybar weights on the Evo yesterday, and I've been very pleased with the response.

BK,

How heavy are your weights? Are they bolted on out at the paddle? Did you pull the head off and rebalance? I've got some and want to try them as soon as it stops snowing.

Bought two cases of fuel and hope to finish them off before March.

Thanks,

[wpasman]

I am exactly in the same boat, did F3C competition flying and 3D flying with the same machine and also raptor 50. You can even win the sportsman class with it (I did) though I doubt that you can win the F3C class. I used black paddles and black dampers that time. Unfortunately for 3D flying you really really need the red dampers which makes the machine a lot less stable for wind.

I'm using the white paddles now, the black ones are too slow for 3D and the green ones too fast for F3C. I thought about having flybar weights to be installed for F3C and removed for 3D work, but I keep mixing the two styles, and furthermore changing the behaviour all the time is asking for troubles.

I kept RPM pretty high (1650+) because I felt it fly better at that speed (less wind sensitive etc) during hovering. For the F3C flying figures I use the high rpm 3D mode. Again, I prefer sticking to one flying mode over separate modes that might cause confusion and take extra training.

BTW funny to see that someone with the same name has the same crazy idea to stick with one machine for both 3D and F3C :D

Good luck
Wouter.

[aviatorjets135]

Allright, so i'm thinking about flying some competition F3C.
For the moment not the FAI schedule but the Sport schedule
It consists of some basic hovering manoevres without pirouettes and
a loop, roll, stall turn, split S and autorotation.
Sell it and buy an hirobo evo 50
I only have a raptor 50 so that's what i have to fly with...

The hovering manoeuvres are the hardest...
It's like really hard to keep the heli on the spot...

I've got SAB blades, the black paddles, red dampers.
Everything is set up nicely and the heli runs smooth at 1600-1700rpm.

I don't really know what else i could do to make it fly a bit more stable.
Would it make a lot of difference if i would use flybar weights? (considering i already use the heavy, black paddles)

If anybody has any tips, i'd be happy to hear :D

For the moment i'm looking out to a Freya .60 or something like that
but it's rather expensive :?