Help BIGRCR and other, I want a Spectra but need advice

[FelixGiant]

Hi, I have read the Spectra G 3D review that was on March and July ’06 of ROTORY modeler magazine, now I'm in love with this heli and have to decide what to buy!

First of all I'm from Italy, be patient with my english!

I first need some advice about the two different version of the spectra, the one with the Extreme head and the one with the Tempest head.

I’m looking to a full 3D ship so I believe the Extreme head is the way to go! Do you agree, what suggestion can you give me ?

In the article they talk about the “ULTIMATE 3D HEAD”, an upgrade available for both the version Extreme / Tempest, but I was not able to find it in the MA web site! Any info about it?

Because this will be my first gasser heli, I need some advice about what to buy; here is the list of what I’m thinking to buy, could you please check it out and tell me what more I would need to be ready to go ??

- MA1025 MA Spectra G 3D Extreme head
- MA125-101 Zenoah 231 stage 1 modified by TRM
- HAT957 Hatori SAb12R for Spectra G23-26
- MA125-120 Gas air cleaner kit with "Spectra G" insigna
- MA125-114 Plug Cap 5k with RF Shield
- FUTM1001 Futaba GV-1 Governor
- SGGGS23 Stator Gator G23 governor sensor for gasser
- FUT Futaba GY611 gyro w/S9256
- JR JR DS-8311 digital servos
- MA121-0 Heavy duty rotor head rod set
- MA0554 Xcell Fan hub flywheel puller
- MA125-103 CNC aluminium carb adapter
- 710 mm main blades
- 105 mm tail rotor blades
- MA115-88 M3 Servo doubler kit JR


What else do you think I have to order to complete the kit ??
I wish to start the engine with an electric starter from above, what do I need to do so??

Regards
Gianluca

[rbort]

Hi, I have read the Spectra G 3D review that was on March and July ’06 of ROTORY modeler magazine, now I'm in love with this heli and have to decide what to buy!

First of all I'm from Italy, be patient with my english!

I first need some advice about the two different version of the spectra, the one with the Extreme head and the one with the Tempest head.

I’m looking to a full 3D ship so I believe the Extreme head is the way to go! Do you agree, what suggestion can you give me ?

In the article they talk about the “ULTIMATE 3D HEAD”, an upgrade available for both the version Extreme / Tempest, but I was not able to find it in the MA web site! Any info about it?

Because this will be my first gasser heli, I need some advice about what to buy; here is the list of what I’m thinking to buy, could you please check it out and tell me what more I would need to be ready to go ??

- MA1025 MA Spectra G 3D Extreme head
- MA125-101 Zenoah 231 stage 1 modified by TRM
- HAT957 Hatori SAb12R for Spectra G23-26
- MA125-120 Gas air cleaner kit with "Spectra G" insigna
- MA125-114 Plug Cap 5k with RF Shield
- FUTM1001 Futaba GV-1 Governor
- SGGGS23 Stator Gator G23 governor sensor for gasser
- FUT Futaba GY611 gyro w/S9256
- JR JR DS-8311 digital servos
- MA121-0 Heavy duty rotor head rod set
- MA0554 Xcell Fan hub flywheel puller
- MA125-103 CNC aluminium carb adapter
- 710 mm main blades
- 105 mm tail rotor blades
- MA115-88 M3 Servo doubler kit JR


What else do you think I have to order to complete the kit ??
I wish to start the engine with an electric starter from above, what do I need to do so??

Regards
Gianluca

Things to buy:

I like the tempest head. I think its higher quality than the 3D head which is half plastic half metal. Not sure what the extreme 3D head is.

Modified engine is good. Either get that or get a Hanson modified G26 by Al there. More power with the g26 than the g231, but it needs to be modified to be smooth.

Muffler, personally I prefer the Century v2/v3 muffler. 1/2 the cost of the hatori, looks good and stays on.

Air cleaner kit, not needed, save your $$$s for something else. Use the stock aircleaner as it has a choke for easy hand starting and built in kill switch in case (close choke).

Plug cap not needed. You can run with the stock config with no issues. That is how mine is. By the way, see pictures of it at:

http://www.massheli.com/gallery/raja

gv-1, good idea. Get one. Also next 3 items, all good choices.

Heavy duty rotor head parts, not needed in my opinion. I fly mine stock with the tempest head and its a kick ass machine.

All the rest of the items are good to have with the exception of servo doublers. You can use them if you like, personal preference I suppose. Don't have them on mine.

I would also add another item that I make, an on-board generator so you can fly it as long as you want with only a stock 4 cell NiCD pack like a JR 1400mah, just gas and go. See my website for that:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze49gsg

Also on mine I like to add the JR rubber dampners on the gear to minimize damage in case of crash and also raise the model up slightly for added tailrotor clearance.

-=>Raja.

[FelixGiant]

Raja, thank you for your advice!

The Extreme head is what some call the 3D head which is half plastic half metal.
Not sure yet about the head to buy, but the 3D head, with the plastic blade holder, should be made like that for some reason!! May be some kind of dumper in the extreme 3D maneuver!?

Very interesting your generator, I'll think about it!

Regards
Gianluca

[bigrcr]

Gianluca,

Sorry about the delay...Just got back from IRCHA.

I think you have got it covered with your list.

A few things to answer and comment on:

The Extreme head is the head you want to use. There are actually 3 possibilities for the head choice:

-Extreme Head with plastic grips- what most pilots use and the most user friendly. The plastic parts are much better to use for 3D service; you won't see the all metal heads used for 3D by many pilots as it costs much more after a crash and will perform what you want to do. The plastic stuff does not break as easily as some would have you believe.

-Tempest 3D Head- This is a wonderful work of art based on the Tempest FAI head designed by Cliff Hiatt. This head work super for 3D, but will cost more after a crash to fix. If you want the ultimate in set-up ability and cool bling for 3D, you want this one. It is still a bit softer and less aggressive than the Extreme Head.

-Tempest FAI Head- This is the "full blown- do anything you want to do in set-up" head and is truly a marvel. This head is definitely NOT for 3D use as it is way too stable even when set-up aggressively.

For the cost to performance difference, get the modified motor. The TRM @125-101 motor is the best choice for the model. It has been fully tested in the machine, has hundreds of hours of service in the Spectra-G and is supported by both us at TRM and MA. Miniature Aircraft USA does not endorse the use of any G-26 motor at this time and surely as a representative of MA I could not endorse a motor of a competitor as Raja does frequently whether I flew it..or not.

As for the muffler/exhaust for the model; the Hatori has been fully tested and flown for several hundred hours as well and YES problems arose with it staying on. Hatori has remedied this by using a Stainless header plate to install the muffler and this problem has now been taken care of. The data collected from testing nearly all available (not the latest Century stuff) systems show the Hatori the winner by leaps and bounds as it does not restrict power at all.

Get the MA air filter, you will not be sorry and the price is reasonable. The other aftermarket stuff is heavy, performs marginally and is not intended for helicopter use (put that stuff on V-8 valve covers where it belongs). The stock air filter will adequately filter the incoming air and does allow for easy choke manipulation. The stock unit however in the G-231 stock or modified motors is restrictive and will not allow the best performance. This stock unit can be modified to open up some air inlet and still allow for filtering so it is still good to use.

Skip the plug cap and use the stock one as it may cause more problems with putting the high tension wire in a bind. The shielding works wonders if you need to reduce the Rf signature from the ignition but it has to be installed as described in the instructions. The only problem with it has been high tension wires that were previously chafed and improper installation, which allows the shield to get under the plug boot where it will ground out the ignition. Of course, this will cause a problem.

The GV-1 governor does work OK for sure. The CSM RevLock is a lot less money, easier to set-up, works flawlessly and does not need a high speed servo for throttle as you can use any good quality servo (.20-.23 transit speed is best).

By ALL means--USE THE STATOR GATOR on the governor of your choice, it is a flawless piece of work.

The heavy duty rods are not a necessity but are nice to have. There are plus/minuses to everything. The heavy duty rods will transfer the commands better without the flex but they will cause more servo damage in a crash. The choice is yours; do you build to crash or to fly? :wink:

The Z-RC carb adapter works super and does solve problems with the stock insulator leaking and is a superbly machined product.

Save your money on stuff that does not belong on the start shaft and use your starter to start the model as a standard starter works fine. Spend that money on the servo supports as they are highly recommended! The supports will save some wear/tear on your servos and keep the horns on the servo if you have a servo screw come out (funnier things have happened).

A few pilots report that they have repeated servo failures and don't use the supports on the model; maybe the supports help on this as well...go figure.

Hope this helps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CustomPC]

FelixGiant,

The ULTIMATE 3D HEAD refered to in the articles is the STRATUS FLYBAR CARRIER upgrade. It helps to strengthen the flybar as well as giving a little bit more adjusability to head. I found it also makes it much easier to setup the head.

I'm not sure if the latest Extreme Head version of the Spectra Kits with come with the new Stratus flybar carrier as standard but i have been told that the Tempest head versions do come with it included in the latest kits.

The part number for the upgrades is 126-105 for the Extreme head or 126-106 for the tempest head. Cost for the upgrade is $55

Three things you haven't covered that i would suggest are the SWASH LEVELING TOOL, a FLYBAR LOCK and the small BUBBLE LEVELS. These tools will help a great deal.

You haven't mentioned your throttle servo choice. Personally i found the servo mounting frames on the Spectra are sized to fit Futaba Servos better, particulary the throttle servo mount, which is why I'm using a Futaba 9001 on the throttle. I agree with John on the RevLock, but the GV-1 is also good.

Other than that, you seem to have done your homework and have everything covered. Your setup is almost identical to mine and i'm loving my spectra.
The only differences are that i chose the CSM SL720 gyro /9256 and it's performing great.

I also started with Hatori #957 pipe (SAB-12R in the US) and it is great. Lately i'm trying the Century V3 pipe and my initial impression is that it's also a great pipe.

[FelixGiant]

Thank you all for your help,

the list is almost complete, thanks to your suggestions!

Now I only need to find money! :lol: (need to sell things)

For throttle servo I think to use a JR/Graupner 8417, it is a fast servo with a good torque, planning to use a GV-1 only because I already have one spare!

Thank you again, I'll ask more in the future if neaded!

P.S.
any suggestion about link to hobby shop were to order the list, as I told you I'm from Italy but wish to order in the States!

[rbort]

"Save your money on stuff that does not belong on the start shaft and use your starter to start the model as a standard starter works fine."

Hey John:

Do I detect a bit of anti-generator in that statement? Not sure why you don't like it -- I've been using mine for over 400 flights between two machines and in the case of the Spectra I put it on since flight #2 and got 130 generator flights on that machine so far. I make my own on-board power when I fly and the JR 1100mah pack that I have in there just sits idle for a rainy day. How can you beat that? Not only that it comes with Minair side doublers CF plates especially designed to mount it so its a non-brainer bolt and go upgrade.

Also not sure why you would encourage using an electric starter for a gasser. (and forget about the generator for a moment). The gasser is so easy to start by hand, 2 pulls when cold and one while hot, why would you want the guy to lug a field box with battery and starter to use? Gassers give you the freedom to fly easily with just your TX, gas can and heli. About the only reason I could come up with is that if you are using the air cleaner you recommend with no available choke they are a little harder to start (several pulls) so maybe that is why you use the electric starter.

As far as the Hanson motors, Hanson has been around alot longer than the Toxic guys but I have nothing against either of them. I have been flying Hanson motors since the 90's (back then that was the only option for modifed motors) and have had good luck with them. I've also been flying G26's in my machines since they came out, modified by Hanson. I was involved in the testing and development of that motor until Hanson was able to come up with a version that would last. My 1005 has a PRO G26 in it and flies super, my Spectra-g also has a Hanson PRO plus with the extra lightened piston and seems to be doing really well so far. I know the Spectra is a little more sensitive to vibrations than the 1005 -- the 1005 I know is really good as I've logged over 500 flights with a G26 in there where in the case of the Spectra I will say its "doing well" as I've logged about 60 flights with the G26. Certainly I have been successful with G26's in Minair machines even though they don't endorse them but I understand the easy answer is to use a G231 and that way you can be sure to stay the safe route that way.

Good advice all in all and I'm sure Gianluca will be happy with his Spectra any way he configs it! :D

-=>Raja.

[WillJames]

Do I detect a bit of anti-generator in that statement? Not sure why you don't like it -- I've been using mine for over 400 flights between two machines and in the case of the Spectra I put it on since flight #2 and got 130 generator flights on that machine so far. I make my own on-board power when I fly and the JR 1100mah pack that I have in there just sits idle for a rainy day. How can you beat that? Not only that it comes with Minair side doublers CF plates especially designed to mount it so its a non-brainer bolt and go upgrade.


A generator is something else to go wrong IMHO. They look cool and seem to work for some people I have seen. You make them and you want to sell them here and advertise them here, but I can assure you that there are a lot more people who want to keep it simple than make things much more complex with your generator. I have seen your setup, I worked on Clay's machine at Clints a couple fo months ago. I would definitely skip that stuff myself.



Also not sure why you would encourage using an electric starter for a gasser. (and forget about the generator for a moment). The gasser is so easy to start by hand, 2 pulls when cold and one while hot, why would you want the guy to lug a field box with battery and starter to use? Gassers give you the freedom to fly easily with just your TX, gas can and heli. About the only reason I could come up with is that if you are using the air cleaner you recommend with no available choke they are a little harder to start (several pulls) so maybe that is why you use the electric starter.


Electric starters make it easy, and also let you not have to mess with taking on and off the removable pull start assembly, and squat down on the ground and pull on the cord. I have owned 2 G's and custom 1005 converted to SE by John and I hate those damn pull starters, I top started the SE as well. Top starting is SUPER easy, not everybody wants to pull start. I am one of these people. I would never choose to pull start a gaasser when I can use my Dynatron and never even squat down. I don't see why anyone else would either. I consider the ability to top start all the MA gassers a design feature that I really like.

The Extreme/Stratus/3D head is a lot cheaper option than going with the all metal Tempest style head. Both heads fly great, I choose to fly the Extreme/Stratus style heads on all my machines. This head has been around a LONG time and has proven itself very well, it is simple to use for the average person who is not into tweaking the delta, etc that the Tempest head offers. The Extreme Head is the same as the Stratus head, but the stratus head includes the new flybar carrier, and they are both referred to as 3D heads. Also I run V-Blades which are wide rooted blades and they do not fold back to go into a blade holder well due to the way the metal Tempest head grips are shaped and I did not like that. That is why you see a lot of the people flying the Tempest heads and wide chord blades removing them after flying the model. I see it all the time. The Extreme head and plastic grips work flawlessly on my MA Ion-X which is turning over 2200 in my case.

Hanson?? You mean Al? I thought Hanson sold out early this year???

John was on the development team that developed the Spectra G as well as developing the Gas SE that many people are still flying including you. John had over 150 development and testing flights ( and over 400 now) on the G back before it was released, so I think he knows more about it than you give him credit for. My understanding of the reason they selected the 231 is because the perfomance is better in the G and they thought that the end user would have a better overall experience with the 231.

Raja is here to sell his generators since some other forums will not let him because he dont advertise with them. We let him promote them even though he does not advertise with us. You are not into top starting because it precludes the use of your generator, I would never do anything but top start. You are obviously pro Hanson. MA the company you represent is the sole distributor for TRM.

I am just trying to keep it real and present the other side of the story since you are so adamant about getting your points across and promoting your generators and acusing anyone who disagrees with making things more complex electronically on the model and top starting calling them "anti generator". That is not the case.

[WillJames]

I guess what I was trying to say, in a simplified form is that when a newbie to gassers starts out, why in the heck would anybody recommend that they add extra non needed complexity like a generator? Gassers have a pretty steep learning curve and IMHO newbies do not need anything like that which can stand in the way of them being successful.

[carey shurley]

Hey Gianluca

As far as sourcing your order, you might want to try either:

www.ronlund.com
or
www.gravesrc.com

Ron has a very large inventory of MA parts and other equipment and Graves is about a 45 minute drive from Miniature Aircraft so they can drive over to the factory and get whatever you want.

One or both of them may be willing to ship directly to you.

[rbort]

Do I detect a bit of anti-generator in that statement? Not sure why you don't like it -- I've been using mine for over 400 flights between two machines and in the case of the Spectra I put it on since flight #2 and got 130 generator flights on that machine so far. I make my own on-board power when I fly and the JR 1100mah pack that I have in there just sits idle for a rainy day. How can you beat that? Not only that it comes with Minair side doublers CF plates especially designed to mount it so its a non-brainer bolt and go upgrade.


A generator is something else to go wrong IMHO. They look cool and seem to work for some people I have seen. You make them and you want to sell them here and advertise them here, but I can assure you that there are a lot more people who want to keep it simple than make things much more complex with your generator. I have seen your setup, I worked on Clay's machine at Clints a couple fo months ago. I would definitely skip that stuff myself.



Also not sure why you would encourage using an electric starter for a gasser. (and forget about the generator for a moment). The gasser is so easy to start by hand, 2 pulls when cold and one while hot, why would you want the guy to lug a field box with battery and starter to use? Gassers give you the freedom to fly easily with just your TX, gas can and heli. About the only reason I could come up with is that if you are using the air cleaner you recommend with no available choke they are a little harder to start (several pulls) so maybe that is why you use the electric starter.


I can answer this- Electric starters make it easy, and also let you not have to mess with taking on and off the removable pull start assembly, and squat down on the ground and pull on the cord. I have owned 2 G's and custom 1005 converted to SE by John and I hate those damn pull starters, I top started the SE as well. Top starting is SUPER easy, not everybody wants to pull start. I am one of these people. I would never choose to pull start a gaasser when I can use my Dynatron and never even squat down. I don't see why anyone else would either.

The Extreme/Stratus/3D head is a lot cheaper option than going with the all metal Tempest style head. Both heads fly great, I choose to fly the Extreme/Stratus style heads on all my machines. This head has been around a LONG time and has proven itself very well, it is simple to use for the average person who is not into tweaking the delta, etc that the Tempest head offers. The Extreme Head is the same as the Stratus head, but the stratus head includes the new flybar carrier, and they are both referred to as 3D heads. I have a new Tempest 3D head in the package and don't fly it. I have owned and flown 2 Tempests with Tempest heads so I know them well one was a 3D one was an FAI. Also I run V-Blades which are wide rooted blades and they do not fold back to go into a blade holder well due to the way the metal Tempest head grips are shaped and I did not like that. That is why you see a lot of the people flying the Tempest heads and wide chord blades removing them after flying the model. I see it all the time. The Extreme head and plastic grips work flawlessly on my MA Ion-X which is turning over 2200 in my case.

Hanson?? You mean Al? I thought Hanson sold out early this year??? I have heard that Al's stuff was better than the Hanson stuff, but I overheard two of the top gas guru's in the USA talking about trying to get the shakes out of a machine with the new Al motor at IRCHA and their overall impression of the motor.

I am the one who got John Garst and Toxic Al together to develop modded engines for the Spectra G and other gas heli applications. It took me over a year of talking to John before he would do get with Al. What REAL NO BS experience do you have with TRM motors? I worked long and hard to get John, Toxic Al and MA together because of the experience I had with Al in the gas boat arena where frankly Hanson was WAY behind and basically a joke. Check the boat forums and the freely available racing result info on the net and show me I am wrong. John flew a few Hanson motors and I was a first hand witness that they were a lot less than optimal for heli use.

John was on the development team that developed the Spectra G as well as developing the Gas SE that many people are still flying including you. John had over 150 development and testing flights ( and over 400 now) on the G back before it was released, so I think he knows more about it than you give him credit for. The reason they selected the 231 is because the overall perfomance is better in the G and they knew that the end user would have a better overall experience with the 231. The RPM range of the 231 better fit the design and gearing of the G and I would think the well known fact that the 231 vibs a lot less then a lot of the other Zens probably influenced that decision as well. Carey could also chime in here if he wants, I definitely do not know all the reasons.

Raja, nothing personal, but we remember you bashing the G and also the TRM motors on RR when the G came out. Yoru posts are still there, why the change of heart now? Now Raja is pro G and still anti TRM, it is obvious. You are here to sell your generators since some other forums will not let you because you dont advertise with them. We let you promote them even though you don't advertise with us, but I think there is another side of hte story that needs presented. I was involved very much with the whole TRM project and testing the G prototype and ratios with John, I fly with him all the time. You are not into top starting because it precludes the use of your generator, I would never do anything but top start. You are obviously pro Hanson, are you a rep for them or sponsored by them?

I am just trying to keep it real and present the other side of the story since you are so adamant about getting your points across and promoting your generators and acusing anyone who disagrees with making things more complex electronically on the model and top starting calling them "anti generator". That is not the case.

Will:

What did I say in the previous post that deserved this sort of bashing? I'm not going to write back a book for you but will make some points in response to your statements:

a) You can do whatever you like. If you think a generator is a complication, don't get one.

b) Again, you like to top start, fine. Most people pull start with gassers and they all start real easy, 2 pulls cold, 1 pull hot. The whole benefit of the gasser is not lugging the battery and starter. If kneeling down for a pull is too much, crank away with battery! By the way, I never used a top start for all the years without a generator. Gasssers gave me the freedom from the field box and often I go to the field with my gasser, tx case and gas can.

c) Where do you come off saying I bashed TRM motors? I didn't do that. I said above I don't have anything against them, I never owned one either but what's the point? As far as Hanson, well he was the only choice when I was into gassers way back when in the 90's when very few people were. If you wanted a modified motor, Hanson was the guy who did it. I got my engine (a G23) modified by him back then and it was smoother and more powerful than stock. I was very happy with that. When the G26's came out, I got mine done by him and I fly them now, one in my 1005 and one in the Spectra. Al (new owner) redid the one in the Spectra with the further lightened piston, and than engine runs like a top -- I'm very happy with it too. I have experience with Hanson/Al and its been good to me, so that's that.

d) When did I ever bash TRM motors and the G as you say. Go find those posts, I need a reminder. I wanted a G even before it came out. Maybe you got me mixed up with someone else.

e) And lastly. So I made a generator. Its a great product in my opinion. I made it to do away with the constantly draining battery that is a risk of dying in flight if not watched and having to charge before going out to fly. It gives users the freedom to fly whenever they want for as long as they want. Sure I talk about it, to get people to know about it as its only word of mouth. Now someone please tell me why people get upset when someone makes something and then talks about it to promote it or whatever. Is that some sort of crime?

-=>Raja.

[WillJames]

I edited my post above after you quoted it to start your post to make it more readable and also less likely to be taken as a bash by you. It is not just the previous post I was responding to, but a number of your recent posts. It is not a personal bash of you and it was not meant that way.

a) I won't
b) I don't carry anything other than a fuel jug and a dynatron with a couple of car packs attached. I stopped carrying a field box years ago.
c & d) Unless Mark deleted your posts, (which is entirely possible), you had plenty to say about the G and the TRM motors on RR. I don't have the wrong person.
e) It is no crime. Are you complaining that we let you advertise and promote your generatos here? Who came to your defence when you first came over here and tried to advertise a couple years ago... it was me.

I do not think you are doing the newbie a good service by selling them generators, sure you made a sale, but the newbie has to make it all work out. I want to see people who start out with gassers enjoy them and be successful at flying them more than to see you sell some generators. I am a firm believer in the KISS method, and adding a generator to a heli is not keeping it simple for a gasser newbie.

[ClayK]

Gassers are a little tough to grapple with right out of the box. No disagreement there.

:dontknow

I do like my generator. Sure, it's additional cabling and equipment. The only problems I've encountered thus far have been normal gasser growing pains. Vibrations, RF, etc. Sure, the generator does add something extra to the mix. I'm a glutton for punishment though. I catch some flak about it occasionally, but more often then not, I have people ask me what it is. Generally, the response is that it's worth it.

I should probably also add that I tend to pick up things faster than most. I learn on a faster curve it would seem. Perhaps someone else might not be so lucky, in this respect, I think Will might be right. However, in my case, the generator works for me. I still like tinkering with it and fiddling with it. I will say this, I had one crash earlier this year on a NiCD pack from low output on my Raptor (was more or less a hard bounce). The generator on the Spectra has never had that issue. Of course, since that time, I switched all my nitro birds over to Duralites and I haven't had an issue since. My Spectra still runs on the NiCD and generator though. She's been down for some time, chasing gremlins, noise, vibration, etc. She should fly again either today or at the very latest this weekend. In short, I would still love her even if I had to charge her every couple of flights. I'm thankful I don't have to though. Some people may find it too complex for them. :dontknow

John is a wealth of information. It was good chatting with him at IRCHA. I can't wait to hang with him again.

:hug:

[Red Sky]

Hi all,

I don't want to hijack this subject but I have the same problem as Gianluca.
I want to buy a Spectra G. Now.

Most of my questions has found an answer here. Great info place!

I made a list too:

* MA Spectra G 3D Tempest 3D head
* Zenoah 231 stage 1 modified by TRM (or Z26 ?)
* Hatori SAB-12R for Spectra G23-26
* MA Gas aircleaner kit with Sp. G ins.

* 710mm main blades
* 105mm t/r blades

* Futaba RV-1 / CSM RevLock
* StatorGator G23 sensor
* GY611 w/S9256

* servos ?
* servo doubler, servo supports ?

I intend to fly 3D with it. So I have this questions:

First, does the Z231 give enough power for hard 3D? Or is the Z26 better?

Please give me some advices regarding the blades. Main and t/r. MAH or?

What servos do you think is the best for it? Shoul I use the servo doublers? What are the servo supports?

What else do you think I need for it?

Sorry if some of the questions qualifies as dumb.
I also want to order from US. Too expensive from Europe.
Why the price from MA is higher than from other shops (Gravesrc or other...)? Does the kit include the engine at MA? I'm a little confused here.
Or do you know a link to a shop where they can help me chose everything to complete the heli? I would like to order everything in one order.

Any advices or tips are more than welcome.
Thanks.

[carey shurley]

First, does the Z231 give enough power for hard 3D? Or is the Z26 better?

Forget the g26......get a TRM231 from MA

Please give me some advices regarding the blades. Main and t/r. MAH or?

SAB or V-Blades, with the Tempest head use 700's. T/R - 110. If you use 710 mains, check the t/r clearance with 110mm blades

What servos do you think is the best for it? Shoul I use the servo doublers? What are the servo supports?

Yes, get the servo doublers. There are two part #'s, one for Futaba and one for JR. Servos - the equivalent of Futaba S9252 are fine

What else do you think I need for it?

There make h/d pushrds for the head, get those. I'll have to look up the part # however the shop can tell you.
Get the ultimate 3D head upgrade for the Tempest head. If you order it with the kit, they can swap the parts

Does the kit include the engine at MA? I'm a little confused here.

Kit does not include an engine

Or do you know a link to a shop where they can help me chose everything to complete the heli? I would like to order everything in one order.

www.gravesrc.com

[Red Sky]

SAB or V-Blades...

...There make h/d pushrds for the head, get those. I'll have to look up the part # however the shop can tell you.

...Get the ultimate 3D head upgrade for the Tempest head. If you order it with the kit, they can swap the parts

This blades will fold back for transport?

h/d = heavy duty? :oops: Sorry about my English...

So, should I order the kit with the Tempest head (MA1025-3) AND the ultimate 3D head upgrade for the Tempest in separate orders?
If you can explain me a little about this ultimate 3D head upgrade will be great.

Thanks for a super fast reply.

[carey shurley]

Hey Lucian

The tempest blade holders protrude further into the blade cavity, however I'm looking at my tempest head with a set of V-Blades V2 and they taper at the roots so they fold back just fine. I don't know the exact shape of the current versions of the SAB blades.

h/d = heavy duty. I think the part # for this is 121-1 for the tempest head

#126-106 is the ultimate 3d flybar upgrade for a tempest head. I think you can get the dealer to order this from MA along with the kit and save a few bucks, otherwise you can just buy it separately and install it yourself, its about $50 US. Just do a search for Stratus flybar carrier and you should be able to find a picture. It provides a fully symmetric flybar control system and strengthens the flybar without adding the outboard weight of a larger flybar.

The part #'s for the servo doublers are 115-87 for Futaba servos and 115-88 for JR servos.

[Red Sky]

8411 servos will be ok for Spectra G or there is a better choice?
I already have some new 8411, that's why I ask.

[Red Sky]

What tipe of thread lock is recommended? red, green or blue?

What lubricants shoul I order for building and mentaining the Spectra G?

[ClayK]

If your heart is set on JR, I would recommend the 8311. 8411 is a decent enough servo, but there have been reports of failures in them at a higher than normal rate when used in helicopter applications. There are some threads around on the subject. You can also google it I'm sure and find out some info. If you are looking for an alternative, Futaba 9252's are good, 9255's are better. However, I don't recommend the 9255's on throttle.... Suggestion something like a 9202 or a 3151 on throttle. I would also recommend M3 washers on the throttle servo mounts.

Blue all around is plenty. Just keep up on your maintenance and check everything. I torque stripe my screws so I can see when they are backing out, helps visual inspection. This doesn't replace my normal tightening inspection, but it helps me tell at a glance if something is coming loose.

Tri-flow for general lube, MA part 4802.
Synthetic Hydrogen Grease for your closed tail box, thrust bearings, etc, MA part 4707.
Some sort of oil for your fuel mixture. Zenoah, Blue marble, Amsoil, Lawnboy Ashless, or some other sort of synthetic.

[Red Sky]

Should I buy some spare parts that I may need in case of wearing?

[saary]

yah. tail boom, main shaft, spendle, tail supports, tail shaft, t/r push rod, battery try and flybar. :mrgreen:

[Red Sky]

Hey, not in case of a crash... :mrgreen:

[carey shurley]

hey, its an Xcell. There isn't that much maintenance to be done. If you're picky, the head o-rings can be replaced every 50 or so flights (more often if you can tell that they have lost their flexibility), get a few extra ball links, they will eventually loosen up especially the ones on the bell mixers. If you don't hit the ground, you can get hundreds of flights on these models with very little maintenance. You're paying for quality and you get it.

[Peter]

hey, its an Xcell. There isn't that much maintenance to be done. If you're picky, the head o-rings can be replaced every 50 or so flights (more often if you can tell that they have lost their flexibility), get a few extra ball links, they will eventually loosen up especially the ones on the bell mixers. If you don't hit the ground, you can get hundreds of flights on these models with very little maintenance. You're paying for quality and you get it.

EXACTLY !!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Love my X-Cell fleet ......