QTVR Optimized Computerized Gimbal for Panoramas

[Yancey]

After seeing Tabbs's QTVR AP I tried to imagine how he did it. I came up with a wish list for a gimbal. Askman, DJ, if you are reading, I've been informed, inspired, and intrieged by your words and work.

Imagine if you will...

The heli rises into the sky.

The camera's first position can see directly below, the camera is not pointing directly down, just able to see what is below.

(To me, this is why helis are perfect for QTVR, the ability to see below you can not be done easily with a tripod. You don't see directly below you in MOST QTVRs. When you look at Tabb's, be sure to look down. http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=13531 )

Once the heli is in position, you hit the magic button. (on tx or black box that is attached to tx)

The camera takes the first picture then the gimbal rotates 30 degrees (12 o'clock to 1 o'clock) and takes another picture until 12 pictures are taken.

For QTVR, the number of pictures you take depends on the camera and settings but for simplicity, lets keep it to 12 a row.

Once the camera is back to the 12 o'clock position, the gimbal tilts up 10 degrees and shoots another 12 pictures.

Three rows of 12 pictures should be enough for beautiful QTVRs. This would also take great panoramas.

The programmable wish list would include:
Being able to change the speed that the pictures are taken. (because of camera processing time)
Being able to change the amount of pictures in a row.
Being able to change the number of rows.
Being able to change the degree of tilt.
Being able to reset itself for another series in same flight.
An audible or visual that signals when the series is complete.

[askman]

lets say there are few of us who are working on panorama setup. ;) just wait and see. it will happen in near future. :D earlier than you think.

[GGoodrum]

Yup, stay tuned... ;)

-- Gary

[AZ ChopperCam]

ditto

[Menno]

Once the camera is back to the 12 o'clock position, the gimbal tilts up 10 degrees and shoots another 12 pictures.

Three rows of 12 pictures should be enough for beautiful QTVRs


You will have a real, real hard time stitching 3 separate 360 pano's taken under different tilt angles :shock:.

If I am not mistaken Tabb uses a wide angle on his 5d which gives him 180 degrees vertical with the camera mounted portrait. This way he only needs one good rotation for a QTVR. Still a work of art though.

Menno

[dreslism]

Menno,

That is my belief also.

If you check out land based panos, they are shot in portrait, and can be done in about 10 shots. I think the pure down and pure up are just blends of the others, so one 360 spin is all thats needed, but it has to be a very good one and some crazy magic stiching. :D

[LoopBaCK]

This shoudn't be too hard to accomplish. Pre-program a controller box to move servos on a predetermined path. Robots do it all the time... it's just computer programming.

Maybe a small box (the size of a box of matches) that normally allows signals to two (or three) gimbal servos to pass through from a typical camera mount receiver. The shutter "servo" should also pass through this box. The controller box uses an extra channel on the receiver for initiation of pre-programmed movements. Maybe use a three-way switch on the transmitter to get two different shooting paths (optional). At predefined intervals as the gimbal pans the shutter is snapped giving a complete group of shots throughout the pan. Maybe even be able to create a "finished" prompt of some kind (audible or visual) when the movement is complete.

I expect this has already been done... ??? Anyone know or heard of such a device?? If not - let's build one!!! :idea: :wink:

Whatcha think ???

[dreslism]

This shoudn't be too hard to accomplish. Pre-program a controller box to move servos on a predetermined path. Robots do it all the time... it's just computer programming.

Maybe a small box (the size of a box of matches) that normally allows signals to two (or three) gimbal servos to pass through from a typical camera mount receiver. The shutter "servo" should also pass through this box. The controller box uses an extra channel on the receiver for initiation of pre-programmed movements. Maybe use a three-way switch on the transmitter to get two different shooting paths (optional). At predefined intervals as the gimbal pans the shutter is snapped giving a complete group of shots throughout the pan. Maybe even be able to create a "finished" prompt of some kind (audible or visual) when the movement is complete.

I expect this has already been done... ??? Anyone know or heard of such a device?? If not - let's build one!!! :idea: :wink:

Whatcha think ???

They exist already. They are used in animatronics. There is a board out there that will control up to 4 servos, for up to something like 4 minutes.

You actually record the servo positions you want it to move to. I would see 2 "servos" being used in this case. One for pan, the other for trigger.

Then when you trigger the device, it pans to position A and takes a pict, pans to position B and takes a pict, .... With a front mount you could do 180, with an airfoil pro1 type mount you could do 360 with the flip of a switch.

These boards are available today and cost between $100 and $200 dollars.

Seems we/us/ someone around here should be able to do it cheaper than that.

[LoopBaCK]

Scott -- where do you get such boards? I've searched around and find quite a few that use computer control but none I can activate with just an R/C radio. Maybe the computer controllers would work just modify a little for our application...

[dreslism]

Scott -- where do you get such boards? I've searched around and find quite a few that use computer control but none I can activate with just an R/C radio. Maybe the computer controllers would work just modify a little for our application...

Check out these guys.

http://www.milinst.com/

Look under animatronics and then the wizard II. I know someone using this one, although it looks like the wizard 1 would also work. I think we need an electronic switch to trigger it, as I think they are designed for stand alone running.

Their price does not seem bad, they are the maker, and there is this distributor in the us who can probably answer questions for us about it, but it is like twice the cost from the us distributor.

Here it is from the us distributor

http://www.bpesolutions.com/conproduct.html#anchor636805

Here is a usage schematic.

http://www.bpesolutions.com/gadgets.ws/gproject6.html

Looks like it can be trigger electronically, but not direct from your Rx. Will need an electronic switch but those are readily available for about $15-20.

I need a pano mount before I buy one of these.

[askman]

another board that may work great for custom circuitry is basicX boards. easy to program and can control multiple servo with inputs. really easy to program servo control. (literally 3 lines of basic code)

[dreslism]

another board that may work great for custom circuitry is basicX boards. easy to program and can control multiple servo with inputs. really easy to program servo control. (literally 3 lines of basic code)

Can you control the servos right from the basic x board? I thought I looked at these in the past and you need the servo controller board, and the basic x board and you have to program it to control the servos.

The nice thing about the wizard board is that it allows you to "program" it in the field. It has a pot to move the servo to where you want it to, and a record button to record your motions of the servo.

You can do this in the field with just your hands.

The downside of the basic x and other pic based controllers is that you have to write code then download it to the device to control it.

If you need to change position of the servo or whatever, you have to then change your code and download again. Not saying this is too bad, but not as easy as the other board, but it might be much cheaper.

Any links to the board and controller you're talking about askman?

Also, I think you need the devel kit to program it right? So more startup costs for that and may cost the same overall as the wizard board??

Thanks for the input, I think between us here on the forum we could come up with something that would work real good for those interested.

[askman]

strength of basic X is its flexibility and ability to take inputs. it will output servo control signals without issues. (it is just a PCM signal output at 50hz with 1.5 to 2.5ms pulse width after all. it just uses serial port to talk to. (built in rs232 inverter)

http://www.basicx.com/

[GGoodrum]

Actually, you guys are complicating it more than it needs to be. All that needs to happen is to have the pan servo move at a slower than "normal" rate, and then a camera with a continuous shot mode. My 14MZ will do this but there are other ways to slow down a servo.

-- Gary

[dreslism]

Actually, you guys are complicating it more than it needs to be. All that needs to happen is to have the pan servo move at a slower than "normal" rate, and then a camera with a continuous shot mode. My 14MZ will do this but there are other ways to slow down a servo.

-- Gary

Gary, no offense, but

You sure we are complicating it?

Have you gone out and shot some as you mention above, and hold the heli still while you're panning and firing away, and then tried to put them together ?

Well, I have, and I cannot do it so well.

I tell you, an automated board that will split your 180 view into say 5 shots, and take a picture at each one, and do it all in about 5 seconds sounds real good to me.

You get a nice preset amount of overlap that you set up which helps when stitching, and all you have to do is prepare yourself to hold the heli as stable as you can, then flip a single switch and the board would take over and do it all. I'd buy that for $100. :D

Here is my latest one, it was done doing a piro as my mount does not pan right now.

It is a full 360 and is 13 photos.

http://www.helifreak.com/download.php?id=10020

Maybe they will come out better when I actually have camera pan and not have to piro anymore.

[Nate Dogg]

Scott-
what software are you using to stich your panos? I hope not photoshop. There is a great solution out there that allows you to stitch panos shot from different angles (aka mautiple row panoramas). Ive had pretty good success with it on land based photography. I can do 360 qtvr panos with no tripod and no wide angle lens. I haven't shot 360's with the heli yet because of lack of piloting skills, but the 180's turn out great. Let me know if you guys are interested and I'll walk you through it.
-Nate

[dreslism]

Ok then, start the walking Nate! :D

What is the solution?

[GGoodrum]

Well, I actually have tried shooting these, and I would agree, doing it with piros is just about impossible without something like the $10k Carvec to hold the helicopter still. The AP-2000i helps a lot, but you can't do piros with the IR sensors.

Andrey and I have some clever ideas that we hope to start testing this week. :) More about this later...

-- Gary

[askman]

I am hoping to cut by tomorrow night. man, I went to bed at 3am and got up at 7, so I am bit loopy today. still have stuff to finish up tonight before I can get to this. I am also hoping my gear orders show up this week, which I need. fun stuff though.

[Nate Dogg]

the software to try for panos is called hugin. you can find it here: http://hugin.sourceforge.net/download/ . you might also want to install auto-pano sift so that you do not have to make control points manually. it takes some time to get the hang of it, but once you figure it out, you can stitch a 25 picture panorama in about ten minutes with perfect results. I'll post a test in a few minutes. Let me know if anyone needs help with the software. you guys all rock and thanks for pushing this hobby :)

[Nate Dogg]

okay, so here's a quick tester. did it from the last post while working on the phone as well. Forgot to set me exposure from auto to manual. Single row, low hover, 360 piro. Tried while running to stay out of the picture. Let me know what you think.
Nate :)