What is too much secondary gear wear?

[OICU812]

Here are some pictures I took tonight of my secondary gear. I hope you can make them out well. Now as I can see the motor is about as far ahead as it can be, in some spots the mesh feels loose which are the sharp area pics and some areas not too bad. I am unfourtenetly not to knowledgeable on just how tight the mesh should be on these bad boys. I think I may allready know whey their are people doubling up these gears. It may also be contributed by the esc and the way it spools up, abit abrupt imho. I was told there was 14 flights on this heli prior to me owning it and I have now only put on 5 flights to it, seems to be not many for this wear or is this to be expected on this setup? It is a NEU1521 with 20:1 gearing.

At any rate...... I took a few pics, I am not certain I should fly it anymore till I replace this 50tooth secondary and if I should be getting someone to get me a double gear.... Let me know your thoughts on this, thank you in advance. For now I ordered another secondary to be certain from Ricks , MA124-50 - DELRIN GEAR WITH HUB 50T ,,, I hope this was the right one, lol.

[TomC]

Shawn,

That gear is toast, do not use it anymore!

The quick solution appears to be to go to a thicker (5mm vs 3mm motor mount) and get rid of the lower mount with rubber. The double 50T gear seems to be the way to further improve the gear wear problem.

Imop the problem is that the motor needs a little support at the back/bottom end to reduce the torque pull of the motor, and dampens it a bit. I'm currently using a 56T gear which places a little force at the back end of the motor mount rubber. This seems to have reduced the gear wear considerably, better than my stock 54T gear which had very little back pressure . When I installed my neu motor, the rubber was tight on the front end, and the gear wore a lot more.

Just my observations, but I think that it might be a good idea to mount a rubber block on the rearside of the bottom motor mount. I know I will try this when I try the Neu motor again.

Cheers,

Tom C

[WillJames]

If the motor was moving at the bottom end the secondary would wear the teeth and they would be shaped more like V's when looking at the view in the photo above.

To try to explain better, the teeth look like V's pointing > like this. If the motor end is moving around, they will also look like V and >. The wear will be both like in the photo above and also the teeth will not be symetrical. It is more obvious with the double secondary gear. The teeth of the secondary will have wear like diagonal across the teeth of the secondary. Like / on each tooth.

This is kinda hard to explain without photos I know.

Also, what seemed to happen is if the bottom end of the motor is moving, the endcap on the neu will pop because of the side loads, but this only happened as far as I know when running the double secondary gear. The thicker motor mount plate seemed to cure this problem and eliminated the diagonal wear on teh teeth of the secondary to.

[OICU812]

Allright so it sounds as if I should look into having both a thicker motor moutn plate as well as a double gear and then I should be good for a long time? Is there a trick on setting mesh with this gear, ie: paper etc,,,, to get it just right?

[OICU812]

BTW,, since I am going to obviously be changing this gear out any suggestions on a strong 3D gearing combo for my setup?

Currently it is

NEU 1521-1.5Y
Main 90 tooth, secondary 50 tooth, HS= 1950

I have read a few of you are pushing over 2K with your Ions, how much difference in 3D performance has that made for you as well what is your gearing to accomplish this and still have some good tourque range with this motor? It would be nice to find a less wearing set and still get some ballistic performance.

THX :D

[WillJames]

I am seeing about 2100-200 unloaded at the start of a flight with the single stage 32-3 if I remember the last time I tached it. The higher headspeeds are definitely going to get you more snappy feel in flight. Have you gotten the new cut swash and new balls that give you a lot more cyclic response? I would do that first it is cheap. You can also flip the bell mixers to where the boss is out instead of in and that makes it a little quicker as well. If you don't want to buy the new swash, add a couple of thin washers as spacers to the balls you have now on the hilliard arms and you will see a difference. Also if you are runnign the Stratus style carrier, move use the inner holes that will help as well.

I am thinking I got more HS out of the same setup you are running. What ESC and what are your curves set at?

[OICU812]

I do not know if this swash is the newest style or not as well and the new balls, not sure. I would need to see a pic of the newer ones to confirm. This is my first MA machine so I am certainly not familiar with the newest, oldest etc... If you have this newest swash and balls I would love to see a pic so I could check into this for sure. As far as HS esc, this setup with that hacker crap esc is running at 1965 unloaded, in hover 1950-1955. This is at 100% Seemed to be pretty nimble, just slow to roll from what I am used to mind you this is my first 90 machine as well.

The thicker motor plate is that an order or special order item and from who, MinAir? If you have the newest stuff on your head of your Ion will I'd love to see it so I know better what you are talking about.

:glasses:

[WillJames]

I will take some pics in the AM, I finally have Internet back and need to work tonight then get some sleep.

[OICU812]

If I was asked near as many questions as you Will I'd need sleep to! Thanks for the help dude! :wink:

[WillJames]

OK here are some pics, sorry they are not great quality it is pretty dark and stormy here today and my shop is not the best lit.

You can tell by looking at these pics it was super wet at the beginning of IRCHA, I need to re tri-flow all the hardware on this machine, it surface rusted over night. :DOH

Hope these pics help explain it.

[OICU812]

THX for pictures will, I will take a good look at these on laptop beside the model and report back. For now I called Minair today and talked to a Chris S, r eal nice and helpfull guy! I am now anxious to get this double secondary and thicker motor plate on route and I will be golden. Now if I can get some cash rollin for that powerjazz I would be in heaven!

:lol:

[rfaster]

I think you first need to have someone that can sell and more importantly deliver you a power-jazz.

Will - my PM's to you are sticking in my Out-Box.... just wanted to let you know.

[OICU812]

rfaster, that is not an issue, I am on a list direct to Germany through a relative!!

[WillJames]

Will - my PM's to you are sticking in my Out-Box.... just wanted to let you know.


They stay in your outbox until I view them from my inbox, I had to work tonight, just getting home and going to bed. Call me in the AM, I have PM'd you my number.

[OICU812]

Hey got my double gear in today along with 5mm plate. Thanks to Chris from MinAir for being so helpfull on the phone and getting this all to me fast, appreciated! Now to just get this ESC programmed better and get this all installed! :mrgreen:

[gordohigh]

OICU812, Let us know how the install goes on the new parts. I will be ordering mine soon as well.

Did you get the power Jazz, or are you talking about the esc that came with the heli?


I know several people that have gone to the shultze but havent heard yet how the performance is......gordo

[OICU812]

No powerjazz will not be available for awhile. I am certain by looking at this gear and plate that it will be the fix though. :)

[TomC]

Just a quick update on my gear wear (or lack of it!) with my Hacker/56T:

There was the smallest amount of white dust for the first 5 flights but after over 40 flights, the gear still looks brand new, and there is no dust or signs of wearing. I think, but do not really know, that having a little back-pressure on the bottom motor support has helped keep thing aligned better when the motor torques up.

Also, the material used on the 56T gear looks different than other MA gears, not quite as snow white, more egg-shell white. When I first got this gear (from Rick's) it thought, man this must have been sitting around in a sunny shop window for a while. If so, maybe it's been UV-hardened? I'll put one of my old shredded gears in the Aussie sun for a while and see if it changes colour/hardess. I'll let you know if I see any difference.

Anyway, one last thought that crossed my mind is that perhaps we need to look at how we mount long can motors like the Neu. Maybe we need to look at providing a bottom fixed mount, like the pinion side, to properly fix the entire motor to the frame and avoid any motor torque movements.

I guess an alternative is to simply go to belt drives but I think that a properly aligned and supported gear drive would be more efficient. Just my 2 cents!

Best regards,

Tom C