Beginner help

[Funnelpond]

Ihave the cp v2 and have not flown her yet as i am still on the sim.My questions are these............

1.I can take off ok and fly around half decent but bringing it back to land is a bit tricky anyone have any tips?

2.When i fly i can make a turn with just the right stick,What is the correct wayway to turn using both sticks?

Thanks.

[Luke Warmwater]

Can u expand a bit....in what is it you find difficult about coming back to land. Is it flying her back to you or simply getting her back down on the deck?

Are you flying a mode 1 or mode 2 transmitter? Mode 2 is throttle and rudder on the left stick, cyclic on the right stick. Exactly how you turn will depend on your speed and on what mode of gyro you have. At lower speeds, it is easy to turn with just the rudder; the tial moves around and the heli hasn't got a lot of momentum, and so will carry on going in the direction you point it (as much as helis ever do).

As you get faster, the cyclic (Mode 2 right stick) can be used to make the turn much smoother. The heli will lean into the turn and with a rate gyro, the nose falls in and th tail swings out. You do need a little rudder input to "encourage" it, but it is much like and aeroplane in its banking. Indeed, a bank into the turn, followed by back on the stick will tighten the turn like and aeroplane....but be aware! UNLIKE an aeroplane, a heli depends on forward stick for forward momentum (in level flight at least), so pulling back on the stick to tighten a turn will also reduce your airspeed. This is not just the effect that a tight turn would have on a plane....it is the equivalent of making a tight tun in a plane and cutting the throttle at the same time.

For me, the biggest danger in anything like this, is over thinking it. With speed, fly her like a plane and use the rudder to make sure that the tail is behaving itself. If you have a HH gyro, you will need to use the rudder to push the tail all the way around. I personally don't fly 3D and want to fly scale models, so my HH gyro is normally in rate mode anyway...

I hope that ramble helps....its late in the UK and I've got an early start, but I'm sure someone who:
i) Knows more
ii) Isn't so rambling and tired..
....will be along soon!
:)

[Funnelpond]

Getting her back on deck i find hard.I have no one here to help me thats why i am asking here.My throttle and rudder are on the left stick.Also what is blade tracking .............Is it when you fold the 2 blades back towards each other they should be perfectly level with each other because mine are not .One drops below the other by a good inch.

Thanks for all who help...............I need it.


Wanna make sure i do things right as i dont wanna crash right off the bat .:banana

[sutty]

I didn't do things right straight off the bat, and crashed within 5 seconds, so well done for that. If your rudder and throttle is on the left, for info, then that is mode 2.

Blade tracking is not what you describe. It is common for them to be out when you fold them back. Blade tracking is when the rotor disc is up to speed, close to take off speed at least, or even higher, if you can safely fix your heli down, when you look at the apparent single blurred disc that the rotating blades make, if you look at it edge on, you will see that one blade tracks around (hence tracking) at a different height to the other, because the lift from each blade is not exactly matched. Adjusting the lift from one blade, by adjusting its angle of attack slightly, will match the lift, and make the blades appear to track around at the same height, because both are providing the same lift. This will make it look as though there is a single disc, or blade, when viewed edge on, if the tracking is perfect.

[pril250]

Getting her back on deck i find hard.I have no one here to help me thats why i am asking here.My throttle and rudder are on the left stick.Also what is blade tracking .............Is it when you fold the 2 blades back towards each other they should be perfectly level with each other because mine are not .One drops below the other by a good inch.

Thanks for all who help...............I need it.

Wanna make sure i do things right as i dont wanna crash right off the bat .:banana

Blade tracking is setting both main blades to follow the exact same pitch throughout the range. When this is the case then by observing the rotating blades side on they will appear to be 'flying' at exactly the same hight.

For the perfect landing you bring her down to a low hover about 2-3 feet tail in, if you are a novice, keep her completely level and ease off the throttle till she sits on the skids and then shut off. It helps to have at least -2 degrees pitch at min throttle to help pin her down.

[creteus]

Step one would be to get some training gear if you do not have any.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Carbon-Fiber-Training-Gear-ALIGN-T-REX-450SE-450-PRO-V3_W0QQitemZ190322315747QQcmdZViewItem

Also it would be a good Idea to use radds flying school
http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-index.html

Be sure to set up the heli perfectly. RTF doesnt mean ready to fly when it comes to helis. Go through the set up videos. They come in real handy in learning, setting up, and keeping a heli flying
Heli Skills and Setup 101 - LOOK here first! - HeliFreak

[sutty]

Going back to your first question, and pril250 just reminded me of this. Whatever you choose to learn in the sim is not how you should tackle it in real life.

I could fly pretty damned well in my sim, and when it came to my first flight, as I said before, it lasted just 5 seconds. The question you ask is actually very difficult to answer, because learning to turn and such like is not how it will pan out in real life.

On the real thing, after I had repaired my belt, I did this. I am not saying this will work for everyone, but it is what I did and I didn't crash for a long time, until I was doing proper fast forward circuits, and even then it was only as a result of the dodgy electronics. Now I crash all the time, but that is because I have started to get silly. :arggg::lol:

Anyway I didn't worry about turning for ages. I learned how to take it up just a few inches, * (I'll come back to this) and hold a tail in hover, and I had training gear on. I then practiced this until I could do it easily. If ever I made a mistake, whilst I was learning this, I would bail out by throttling back. ** (I'll come back to this too) Since I was near the ground, and with training gear on, I never tipped it over. Once I could do this easily I started to fly forwards, very slowly, like a moving hover. I went 10 yards forward, and then stopped, hovered for a moment, and then flew back, along the same path, still tail in, so effectively flying backwards but still very slowly, so I could stop and convert it simply to a hover whenever I needed. Again if I got confused, or wrong sticked it, and it looked like it was tipping over, throttling back always saved the day, since I was so low.

Next I learned how to nose in hover on the sim, and when I could do that very well on the sim, I tried it for real. Again with a very low hover, I used the rudder to spin it around until it was nose in, and I would then practice hovering like this. Once again, if it was going wrong, I would throttle back, and it would settle down level, because I would react, panic, quickly enough, that it was all still within the range of the training gear.

Once I could nose in hover I went back to my slow forward flight, and at the end, 10 yards away, I would hover, quickly turn around, in a flat rudder only turn, and fly back, and when I got back to me, I would hover, turn around again, and fly away again.

When I could do that I started to try to learn slower and slower transitions from tail in to nose in, which meant passing through side in, one way or the other. The slower I did it, the harder it was, because there is time for things to go astray, and you have to know which way to correct, but again, if it went wrong, I would throttle back, and it would settle down, saved by the training gear.

Learning to hover like this, in the various orientations, very low down, within inches of the floor, * (I said I would come back to this), worked for me, but some, perhaps many, will argue that the heli is much harder to control like this, near the ground, as it is flying in its own ground wash. It is easier at three to four feet, but for me this presented to mush risk, and anyway, if it was harder to learn to hover near the ground, all the better, because it meant I had better control of my heli.

Meanwhile on the sim, I was learning to hover with plenty of rudder trim set in, so that the model would slowly rotate around. I started clockwise, right trim, and when I could do this, I went to anticlockwise, and then I would swap between the two. Once I could do this in the sim, the side in moments, during the transition to nose in, became no problem, and in fact side in became no problem, because I could hover in the sim, in any orientation, in fact as it was slowly spinning around.

Next I went higher, and higher, and repeated the same things. Though this was now a real tough issue for me, as the bailing out by throttling back, ** (I said I would come back to this too), was just no longer an option. Having learned to save my heli by throttling back, I was now in danger of it plummeting to earth if I did that, so I had to unlearn that response, which was very difficult, and this presented me with a big stumbling block at this point. This is why some, again perhaps many, will argue that the method I described above is not the best approach, as it teaches you a bad habit in terms of saving your heli. For me though, it was worth having the difficulty here, because if I had done differently from the beginning, I'm sure I would have had more crashes in the early stages, had I reacted by punching the throttle up, to buy more thinking time, as some describe. That, for me, would have simply bought more time for a bigger crash, from a greater height, when I had insufficient skill to deal with it.

Once over this stumbling block, which just took time, and slowly getting higher and higher, I was able to start slowly progressing to bigger wider turns at the end, and then into proper circuits, and then with proper, co-ordinated turns, which in answer to one of your earlier questions, invariably involves all the controls. Aileron to bank, elevator to encourage it around and help with height, rudder to keep the tail in line, especially with HH, because with HH there is no tendency for the tail to follow the nose, and if you don't actively fly the tail you will soon find yourself flying sideways into the ground, and throttle, to help maintain height and or speed.

In fact, the more you practice each thing, the more you will realise that almost everything you do will actually involve all four controls. The heli moves around, all the time, in all directions, including up and down, and will need correcting, so you end up needing all four controls, most of the time.

So that's my story. Others can chip in with how they did it. Disagree with my methods I'm sure, but one thing is for sure, no matter how much sim time you have, or how good you get on it, you should only be thinking of starting with nothing more than a tail in hover. Even if you are a very gifted natural, you don't want to be thinking about turns, on the real thing until you have some basic hovering and orientation skills sorted, or it will likely end up with a crash.

Good luck, and have fun.

[B2TheEYo]

Tight for time, so haven't read anyone's posts. But seeing as Luke has posted none of us likely have to help since he's an expert (I'm being sarcastic).

It's trickie to explain how to fly. me personally, when I fly it's all a big mash up, I just envision the heli doing something and it happens, it's the same way in a car, I find it difficult translating my hand and foot movements into words.

But I'll try and sum it up with a Mode 2 Configuration

First the sticks functions:
Throttle = Primarily for making the heli go up, and down. Though, giving a heli a tiny bit more of throttle when it's tipped to go into a direction will make it move quicker and go up, it varies so it's hard to explain.

Rudder = This is to make the heli spin on the main shaft, in a complete circle (360*), you'll need to use this in combination with your cyclic (left - right) stick to achieve a wide smooth turn, if that's what your after.

Cyclic = This controls the movies, Left makes the heli strafe to the left, right makes it strafe to the right. Now if your unfamiliar with the term strafe, basically it's the same as "sliding" it in either direction. The forward and back naturally makes it go backwards and forwards.

The trick is to use these all movements in combination, with perscion and timing to achieve a maneuver.

When you fly, and when you practice on the sim, I'd stick to just learning to take off, and hovering in a spot without allowing the heli to move. Always do this in the same orentation, which ever one you wanna learn first, I'd recommend tail in.

Orientations:
Every orientation the controls are different. It's important you learn in one orientation first as I previously mentioned like Tail-in. As your heli will move just like your controls, it gives you the "in the cockpit" sense, or like a video game.

Don't be fooled and decide to turn the heli nose-in, or side-in. You'll quickly mess up and crash your helicopter. It's important to grasp one oritentation, then slowly practice "phasing" your controls.

For example when your head-in (nose of the heli facing you), your forwards will move the heli towards you, backwards will move it away from you, and your side movements will be reversed so right will move left, and left will move right. Naturally if you've learned tail-in then your instincts will be to do the movements as if you were tail in when your actually head-in. In addition, your rudder movements are reversed too!

Side-in isn't easy either, if you were to fly outwards from you side in, you have to keep the heli from tipping forwards/backwards, while piloting outwards sideways, and also control your rudder, it becomes quiet a work out when just starting out.

Learning Orientations:
Best way to learn your orientations is to take off into a hover, ensure your able to keep the heli stable within an invisible box in your imagination. Once you've achieved this, you'll be able to handle and counter the left-drift a heli has when it takes off and be able to counter it better during flight.

To master orientations, fly the heli in the orientation you wanna learn, straight out so far. Stop, and fly straight back, stop, fly back out straight, than fly back.

This will allow you to learn forward-flight and progress your orientations MUCH more quickly then just "hovering" in them. Once you get a few orientations mastered, shuffle it up. For example, fly out tail in, stop, spin around and fly back head-in.

Practice this after learning to hover within a simulator and you'll do fine and progress quickly.

When you do actually fly your helicopter. DON'T push things, don't think you can pull off the stuff you did in the sim on your real heli right away. Take it slow and ease into things. As not every model performs exactly like your SIM does.

Blade Tracking:
Before you fly your model, you should go through the setup stickies on this forum. Ensure your helicopter is setup properly. The Finless Bob videos are a Heliholics bible IMO and a great way to grasp things a little better then reading.

In short, blade tracking is when your blades are spinning and you look at them from the edge, that both are flying within the same path. You should only be able to see one blade "line" so to speak. If you see two, you need to adjust your pitch linkages. ONLY adjust one blade, the one blade that you choose is out of line. Typically blades have red and blue tape on them to make it easier.


All the time I have for now, hopefully this gives you some idea or helps you and others.

Cheers!

[Tomstoy]

Na, screw all these guys, just go for it !!!!!! LOL !!!!!!!! I'm kidding, seriously. The advise all these guys have given you is spot on the money. Remember, you HAVE to do your homework, you HAVE to put in the simulator time, you HAVE to use training gear.

They all gave you the best advise that can be given.

The ONLY thing that I can add that hasn't been mentioned is;

WELCOME TO THE FORUM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

[B2TheEYo]

WELCOME TO THE FORUM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

Cough.. Ditto.. :roll:

[Funnelpond]

I have the training gear.Thanks for your help guys,You all seem like a good bunch of people,Glad i joined this forum.I will be around for awhile i hope.

Funnelpond

[Funnelpond]

I use clearview flight sim and was wondering what chopper should i select that closely resembles the belt cp v2?

[branflake12]

I use clearview as well...I use the Belt CP model :YeaBaby:

[Tomstoy]

Funnelpond - When I first started on the sim, what I did was selected a 90 size nitro bird to start with, more stable, then started going down in size to hone my skills. It helped me, might be the ticket for you too.

[creteus]

Not me. I went straight from box, to air, to ceiling, then back to floor. Just remember, weather you are great on the sim or whatever, just dont do what most of us have done. dont hit the little switch on the left side of the radio. Another good pointer that many of us has done is never under any circumstance turn the radio off when the battery in the heli is still plugged up. If you do you'll se a heli go from quietly sitting to full power in half a second. It was another lesson learned by me that involved the ceiling:happyd

[Big_Ron]

Radds rock's its was a big help to me

[Funnelpond]

When i try to lift off the heli keeps drifting left.I checked the blades and tracking seems good all servos working.I dont think i am gonna do to good with this, getting nervous.I am trying inside the house where there is not much room as its too shitty to go outside.If she would lift off going up a little on the straight side i might feel a little better.All trim tabs except the throttle tab are centered.Help .Starting to think a plane would have been a better choice.

[creteus]

All helis drift to the left upon liftoff. Its the tail rotor that causes this. Once you leave ground effect this goes away. Ground effect is the downwash of the rotor reentering the blades. once you get about as high as the rotor diameter you'll be out of it. Dont get discouraged. Keep trying. Just compensate a little with right cyclic. remember fly like you fly the sim. Be cool and easy. Dont over react and bang the sticks.

[sutty]

Hi Funnelpond, and welcome, which I omited in my previous posts, sorry about that. Anyway don't worry about that drift to the left on lift off, that is quite normal. If your heli is set up correctly, a little drift to the left occurs due to the tail rotor wash, which while counteracting the torque of the mainblades, it blows to the right, and the heli reacts by sliding to the left a little. In a hover your heli will naturally lean a little to the right to counteract this, and you will learn to hold this in. It lessens as you go higher and in any case it will soon become a natural instinct.

Some people add trim to compensate, so they don't have to hold it in, but this then throws you off when doing other sorts of flight, so I am not sure if that is a good idea or habit to get into. Of course if the drift is severe, then your set up may be off. Have you been reading the stickies on set up, and watching the finless bob set up videos, as mentioned previously they are worth their weight in gold. His general videos on setup seem to be on a Trex 450, the same size class as the Belt, and whilst they are not identical, they are near enough to the belt that you will be able to relate one thing to the other. I found that watching his videos, whilst checking mine, actually helped me even more, because it helped me learn in terms of general priciples and not the specifics of the Belt, and that proved very useful for me in the longer term.

Oh and don't even think of turning to planks, they are the dark side, and you will master these little quirks sooner than you think. They are boring and dull by comparison, and I should know, I was flying them for far too long before I decided to buy my Belt, and I absolutely loved it, and helicopters in general. You are only allowed to get a plank, after you can fly your heli around properly, and then it is just for relaxing, lol. :lol:

[squeky]

When i try to lift off the heli keeps drifting left.I checked the blades and tracking seems good all servos working.I dont think i am gonna do to good with this, getting nervous.I am trying inside the house where there is not much room as its too shitty to go outside.If she would lift off going up a little on the straight side i might feel a little better.All trim tabs except the throttle tab are centered.Help .Starting to think a plane would have been a better choice.

Go outside, you'll feel much less nervous. Wait for the weather to get better. If you don't, you'll be sorry and ordering new parts before you know it. Don't get discouraged, you WILL get it if you stick with it and don't rush it.

[B2TheEYo]

Not me. I went straight from box, to air, to ceiling, then back to floor. Just remember, weather you are great on the sim or whatever, just dont do what most of us have done. dont hit the little switch on the left side of the radio. Another good pointer that many of us has done is never under any circumstance turn the radio off when the battery in the heli is still plugged up. If you do you'll se a heli go from quietly sitting to full power in half a second. It was another lesson learned by me that involved the ceiling:happyd

+1... My ceiling fan has never been the same since.. LMFAO!

Flying heli's takes a lot of time to both build, maintain, setup and actually learning to pilot the model. But it's REALLY all worth it. Because the moment you master every new maneuver or gain a new ability, you feel like you won the freaking Stanley cup. Don't be discouraged! With a plane, you'll be flying in 10 minutes, literally, but you'll be bored quickly.

The drift is normal, practice compensating for it. If the drift is really bad, do as we've all suggested if you haven't already and check your setup. :)

Determination, and patients.

[Luke Warmwater]

I am trying inside the house where there is not much room

Can I just echo the advice about waiting on the weather....or find a larger indoor venue. Obvioulsy I don't know the size of your house, but these things can be VERY dangerous. That insane sound as it spool up isn't just a case of "wow, that sounds like it goes really fast"...it really does go really fast! :shock: Fast enough to cause a lot of damage to furniture and serious injury to people.

Indoors, you have the potential of it tipping over (which can be reduced by the training gear) and the risk of hitting an object, which nothing can prevent apart from the pilot.
Outside, that risk is taken away to a very large extent (depending on how much space you have outside) and the only risk is tipping over...which again the training gear helps with.

I know it is frustrating....I was soooo tempted to spool mine up in the kitchen when I first got it, but having seen my first crash outside, I was soooo glad I didn't!

Good luck and enjoy!

[B2TheEYo]

+1 Luke..

I've spooled up my birds inside... That was enough to scare my sh!tless...

These DO have the power to easily seriously injure or kill you. I've had my 500 at 4000RPM miss my head by inches... I know a little to well.

[Funnelpond]

I hear ya guys and i am gonna stay with it.I was looking at flight sims as i have clearview,But there are a few out there that look great.What do people think of aerofly and phoenix?What would i need to go with my esky radio to use these?

Thanks fellow heli dudes.:)

[Bugster]

Hi FP. I was recommended to buy Phoenix at my LHS. I used it with my old JR X3810 Tx and didn't notice that it had an accumulative timer built in.

I was hypnotised by the realism of Phoenix and after about 3 weeks I noticed the timer was showing 44 hours airtime. Yes I'd sat there for 44 hours "playing" on Phoenix. Just shows you'll never get bored on a good quality sim.

And it must have saved me 100s in crash repairs :YeaBaby: