AP2000i eCCPM Interaction - Switched Servo inputs from RX???

[WillJames]

Hi Guys,

I am loving the RaptorCam. Working on installing the AP2000i since about 2 this morning... :DOH

I have it all setup fine, everything is working as it should, it moves away from a hot hand near the sensor, etc. Swash Type SR-3, Stab Type IRx, only emdpoint I have to change is Elevator1 at High point. My problem is it has TERRIBLE CCPM Interaction. I have tried subtrims, ATV's on the radio and endpoints and rate adjustments in the AP200i everything I can change and nothing will make this work. I even changed out all 3 servos with brand new ones, same exact thing.

My mechanical linkage setup is absolutely as good as it can get, I have been flying eCCPM machines for years.

Check out this video.(the vid is blurry but you can easily see the interaction, camera focus was locked on Infinity) Do I just have to live with this much interraction or not use the AP2000i? Also, AP200i is latest firmware available from the Spartan Website.

[Teej]

Edited. Didn't realize 2000i called the mode 'sr-3' as well. I thought he was saying the TX was in sr-3.


SR-3.... wait a second....

I don't have an ap2000i...yet..but...I thought you were supposed to set the radio normal (SWH1) and the ap2000i does the ccpm mixing...

[dreslism]

Sweet will. Looks like some kinda funky chicken dance.

You set your radio to no eccpm right? Like S1 or whatever you're using?

Sr-3 *should* be right on the ap2000

It should not be doing that for sure.

Mine is smooth.

Hopefully DJ will chime in and confirm your settings as he had one on his logo.

What Tx and Rx are you using?

All other cyclic works as expected with regards to aileron and elevator?
i.e. no bad interaction there, just collective interaction?

[WillJames]

Radio is set to H1 swash type (mechanical mixing)

My problem is that the Elevator Servo (Servo 1) to the AP is traveling WAY more than the other two. You can see it very obviously just lookint at the servo arms, and it is both directions traveling a lot more than the other 2 servos.

The video above I have the ELEV (Servo 1) endpoints limited way back in the AP to make it only travel as far as Servo 2 and 3 travel with 100% endpoints. Transmitter ATV's are all at 100% both ends, if I bypass the AP, the servos all travel the same amount. Only other setting I have is that I have some center trim on servo 3 in teh AP. Other than that all settings default. If I cut back the rate on Elevator in the AP, it just limits my total collective range but the elevator servo still travels proportionally a lot more travel than teh other two servos.

DJ suggested a full reset of the AP and also to start out with a completely fresh model on the TX which I am going to now do.

Point Mix on the TX can get most of the interraction in the video above out, but it is still not a smooth and flat swash traveling up and down through its collective range, only got a 5 point mix in the 9CHP. Since I will be using this machine for work, I would prefer to not use my 14MZ with it, but if point mix is the answer, I may have to use it to get al lthe interraction out.

Thanks again for the help guys.

[dreslism]

YOu should be able to get it out without doing the point mix. This sounds familiar

I think someone on RR the other day was pulling their hair with the same issue.

I think full reset of AP2000 and new model and magically everything worked after that.

I have put an ap2000i on 2 helis of mine.

All I ever set was the swashtype SR-3 on the ap2000i reversed a servo on the ap2000i, I never touched anything else on it.

Ok I touched one other thing and that was setting servo 4 output to control my gyro gain.

Both of mine have always been smooth.

Hopefully the reset will do it.

[WillJames]

:arggg: :arggg: :arggg: :arggg: :arggg:

FULL RESET, New Default Model in TX. All TX ATV's at 100%. Zero Subtrim in TX. Channels 2 (ELEV) and 6 (Pitch) reversed. Swash type SWH1.

Only thing changed in AP is reverse of Servo 3. Swash type SR-3, Sensor Type IRx (OFF showing on display during setup) Elevator servo (Servo 1) still travels about 20+ degrees on each side more than Servo 2 and Servo 3! :DOH If I limit high and low endpoints in AP200i I get the exact same interraction seen in the video above.

Bypass the AP and all servos travel the same amount.

[Angelos]

First disable stabilisation while you are setting up CCPM.
Set all the AP-2000i endpoints (Ep) to 100%.
Make sure all servos have the exact same arm lengths.
Connect servos to the AP-2000i: servo 1 at rear, servo 2 at front left, servo 3 at front right.

Perform the following test:
Set the AP-2000i swashplate to S-1.
Centre all trims on the transmitter.
Put the collective pitch at exact mid point, also centre any hover pitch trim.
Make sure you pitch curve is 50% at mid stick point (just for now, you can adjust later).
All servo arms should now be horizontal which ensures correct linkage geometry.
Adjust servo arms if needed and fine tune with the AP-2000i trims. Then adjust linkages to level the swashplate.

Now you switch the AP-2000i back to SR-3.
Move collective up down and reverse the servos on the AP-2000i side as needed to keep the swash flat.
If the aileron and elevator are moving the wrong way reverse them on the transmitter.

For information... Servo 1 moves more than 2 and 3 on elevator only. On pitch it should move the same as 2 and 3 and on aileron it should not move at all. If this is not the case some servo or receiver wires may be crossed.

-Angelos

[Teej]

Will:

I'm almost certain you have connections goofed up from RX->Ap2000i.

As Scott mentioned, this pRRoblem has been discussed elsewheRRe and that was the pRRoblem.

Teej.

[dreslism]

Angelos' post should clear it all up. Sounds like the elevator and pitch servo are swapped??

Based on what angelos said, it travels farther for elevator, but not for pitch, so if they were swapped, then it would give exactly what Will is seeing, and elevator would still appear to work as you would think it would, and you would not know any better.

I'm thinking Will's next post will be "Whoooo hooooo, it's all good."

And then when he goes out and flies with it, then he will really have some nice comments when he comes back. :D

[Teej]

Yeah. I started writing that last post before Angelos posted...By the time I found the post and confirmed it was the same issue, Angelos had chimed in. :)

[WillJames]

Thank you VEYR much for your help Angelos!!


First disable stabilisation while you are setting up CCPM.
Set all the AP-2000i endpoints (Ep) to 100%.
Make sure all servos have the exact same arm lengths.
Connect servos to the AP-2000i: servo 1 at rear, servo 2 at front left, servo 3 at front right.

Stabilisation is disabled.
All endpoints in radio and AP are 100%.
All servos have same length arms.
1 = ELEV 2 on Frt Left, 3 on Front Right. I DID have 2 and 3 reversed before. Same results now as before Elevator travels way more than other 2 servos on collective, everythign works perfect at mid stick collective. I had different channels reversed in AP200i before with 2 and 3 switched, but it still worked identically to how it is now.

Perform the following test:
Set the AP-2000i swashplate to S-1.
Centre all trims on the transmitter.
Put the collective pitch at exact mid point, also centre any hover pitch trim.
Make sure you pitch curve is 50% at mid stick point (just for now, you can adjust later).
All servo arms should now be horizontal which ensures correct linkage geometry.
Adjust servo arms if needed and fine tune with the AP-2000i trims. Then adjust linkages to level the swashplate.

Test passed. All serv arms Horizontal at 90 degres to pushrods, swash level in center of travel. Leveling at Zero degrees has already been done before install of AP2000i.

Now you switch the AP-2000i back to SR-3.
Move collective up down and reverse the servos on the AP-2000i side as needed to keep the swash flat.
If the aileron and elevator are moving the wrong way reverse them on the transmitter.

For information... Servo 1 moves more than 2 and 3 on elevator only. On pitch it should move the same as 2 and 3 and on aileron it should not move at all. If this is not the case some servo or receiver wires may be crossed.


At mid stick, zero degrees swash works perfectly. Symmectrical travel fore and aft (ELEV) and side to side (AIL).

Collective stick, ELEV has about 20% more travel each way than other 2 servos.

Check video attached below to see it in action.

If I limit High and Low endpoints in the AP2000i on servo 1 (ELEV), I get the major interaction like the first video in this thread.

[WillJames]

I wish it was as easy as the elev and pitch were reversed. :DOH

I am using a Futabe 9CHP with 319 PCM RX. 9252 servos.

[Angelos]

You move things a bit fast on the video and I am not completely sure about this but I think the ball inside the swashplate moves a little up and down when you apply elevator. So elevator does not seem to be getting the right command either.

I still think that the elevator and pitch channels of the receiver come in the AP-2000i reversed. So I will suggest that you swap them and see if it sorts itself out. You will of course need to redo some servo reversing once the channels are swapped.

-Angelos

[WillJames]

WOW!! Check this out!!

Pulled out my 14MZ and created a new heli. Setup the channels for non-G3 RX, changed the channel to 29 and reversed the Elevator and Pitch channels in the TX and.... IT WORKS FINE!!!!!!!!! *EDIT - Ahhh and I bet I fixed a channel reverse between pitch and aileron when I redid the channels to match what the 14 manual calls for??

I am determined to make this work now with my 9CHP because I really don't want to use the 14MZ for working with this AP rig. What the heck could be wrong with my 9CHP??? Stick Calibration? Send it back to Futaba? What to do. *EDIT - I'm not with stupid, I AM stupid. Elevator and Pitch were reversed but it looks like my 9CHP has some kind of stick calibration issue on the pitch channel. The swash does jump at mid stick using elevator on the 9CHP, but not with the 14MZ!! It also over travels on the top end and under travels on the bottom end now on ELEV Servo #1.

I'm going to fly it with the 14MZ until I can get the 9CHP re-calibrated. I hope my UltraPAC will recalibrate my 9CHP like it did with my 9Z!!

[WillJames]

Thank you guys and Angelos VERY much for the super fast and helpful support!!!

[dreslism]

Awesome, now go fly it and tell us how you like it.

Make sure you have the ap2000i gain on a slider and slowly slide it in once you have it up in the air.

Hey Will, I just realized it's almost 2:00PM. You started at 2:00AM right? Just 12 hours! :shock:

It's worth it after you fly it. I could not do my shoots solo the way I do without the ap2000.

[WillJames]

Not done yet Scott!! Pulled the 9CHP back out and with the aid of a point mix and some High and Low endpoint work in the AP2000i, I have it flyable on the 9CHP!!


It is not perfect,but I bet it is good enough to use since the slight bit of interraction is only affecting the upper and lower ranges of the collective travel. I bet I will never even get to those points unless I have to auto and then it will be no big deal because I wil lbe flying hte heli anyway.

Failsafe setup and figuring out if I have the IR channels reversed or not and she should be ready to fly. Pitch range is +12 and -8, probably don't need all 8. Now also have to flattten out the pitch curve around hover a little, got -50% Expo dialed in to slow down things around center.

Thanks again for all your help everybody. Not 100% sure I had the channels reversed, because I still get the ELE servo traveling more than the other two, but sometimes you just have to throw in a point mix and go fly the damn thing!! :dontknow

[MarkWebber]

Very curious...glad you're going to get to try it out. I'm sure you'll like it too!

[WillJames]

OK Confirmed. My 9CHP needs the sticks recalibrated, I did not have the elev and pitch servo leads in the RX reversed. I can duplicate the problem exactly like the video. If I intentianally reverse the two leads, the problem is a good bit worse than what you see in that video to the point of binding up the swash in my case.

Now scouring the net to figure out if my ultraPAC can calibrate the Charlie like it can the Z. I will let you guys know.

Thanks again for all the help!!

[Angelos]

The service menu of the 9C does not include joystick calibration.

The Aileron, Elevator and Pitch signals all arrive to the AP-2000i separate. Bad joystick calibration can not create the behaviour that you see. I suggest that you connect 3 servos on the outputs of the receiver (without any eCCPM mixing) and see if there is any interaction between them.

-Angelos

[WillJames]

OK when I do that on the bench, with a separate Model in the TX, 319 RX and Servos the 3 channels seem to move about the same amount each.

The heli is charging to hopefully fly later and I did not try it with the RX and servos installed in the heli.

[dreslism]

Will,

What's the scoop man? Did you fly it yet? :D

[WillJames]

I flew Yesterday in teh wind. Don't have it right yet. Today wanted to go fly but ended up working about 13 hours.... Hopefully tomorrow she flys.

Thanks for asking, got the swash leveled and teh endpoints tweaked today. Ready to fly tomorrow hopefully.