Logo 14 Lockouts - SOLVED!

[MrMel]

Im performing a rainbow; starting with a backflip, full negative and then lockout, either short or longer. PCM goes into failsafe, its normally when heli is about vertical.

I repeted it 3 times in a row, I can fly upright doing stall turns all day, not a single glitch.

My setup:

Logo 14 Carbon, G3 PCM Receiver, 55-10-32, U-BEC 45V, 9650 servos, 611 Gyro, 10s1p, Orbit 30-12.

I use ferrite rings close to receiver both on throttle and on UBEC lead.

Receiver in the back, ubec and esc up front.

Antenna is full wire in the side in the pipe.
Range check on ground with collapsed antenna is about 35meter.

Lockout occur about 50-60 meters out

I have the same channel on my Logo 10 with G3 receiver also, no problem on that machine.


Ideas? Please

[Daniel Jetschin]

Orbit motors don't work together well with G3 receivers in combination with the jazz. Someone told be but I couldn't believe this, until I tried it by myself. My setup was orbit 30-12, 13t pinion, 9650, 611, FP 3700 10s, emcotec rx supply with separate rx lipo pack, jazz 55, G3 rx. With the tango the same setup is almost glitch free.

Also your range you get is way too short. With removed antenna (yes, right) and motor not running you should achieve at least 50m, with the antenna mount pointing on the model, standing on a table (wood or plastic, not metal) and with running motor max. 20% less range then before or something is messed up. But I have to say I've never managed to get this range, maximum was 30m. G3 :badair:

[MrMel]

Your right!

Switched to a PCM 1024 reciever and got huge range.

Thanks!

[MrMel]

Yelled yes to early.

Went out flying tonight, first battery no problem, second battery, was going great, then all of the sudden, full PCM lockout.

So its alot better (before I got it almost immediatly), but I suspect this is due to something else (range is good now, lockout occured when I was pretty close to my self)

Maybe belt ESD, gonna ground the boom and Ive ordered some graphite spray for the belt, also have another ESC (HV85) which I can give a shot + gonna try without UBEC and do a RX battery instead.

Its so damn strange... and so hard to track down.

I think I need to put a prayer to the Heligods tonight, 4 full PCM lockouts today, and I managed to recover from all of them, this last one was close though.

[Daniel Jetschin]

Sorry to hear that, lucky nothing happened to your logo. First I'd check for bad bearings or metal/metal/cf rubbing that can cause rf, too. Grounding the boom to the alum. motor mount (if you have one) is always a good thing, but I never had lockouts due to the belt...

Glitch chasing on a electric is like searching a needle in a haystack ...Been there, but haven't done it yet
:dontknow I'm searching for unknown glitch causes since weeks... Still at it

curious, wheres your thread on RR left :dontknow:

[MrMel]

RR Crashed, they lost 6 hours of data...

Its a new build, so the bearrings should be ok.

It seems it happens when I fly "extreme", in other words, when I do tic-tocs, or rainbows etc, so it can be cf that rubs or something like it, gonna see what I find.

And, my cables between motor and esc are long, gonna shorten them down.

Location of ESC and UBEC is good, so I will leave them there, however, gonna test a RX pack and see what happens.

It really sucks that you cannot test it in a "safe" enviroment.

[Daniel Jetschin]

Try one ferrite in the motor cables after shortening them and one in the battery cables, I gained some more range with them. Just put one over all 3 from the motor, and one over the 2 from the battery.

[MrMel]

OK, Im growing a tremendus amount of gray hair here..

Range checks:
1. No motor, no antenna, result: 48 meter.
2. No motor, mounted folded antenna, result: 99 meter
3. Motor running, no main gear, no antenna, result: 3 meter
4. Motor running, no main gear, mounted folded antenna, result: 12 meter

Now, when it stopped responding, it didnt go into failsafe (not as I noticed, motor kept going, just not responding to RPM change, nor did it respond to throttle hold)
However, Im not sure F/S was working from get go..

So whats the problem?

Bad motor?
Bad ESC?
Bad UBEC?

What should I try next?

I have a CC HV85 laying here, should I try it?
Didnt have a working RX battery, but I could solder one togheter.
I have other motors I could try and see what happens...

Whats the best bet?

[Daniel Jetschin]

3m is not much :lol: Ok first make sure you set your failsafe mode to "cut" on the throttle channel, then spool up your motor and simply shut off the tranny. Should cut the throttle then.

Go for the HV esc, can't get worse. But remember, just one tweak at a time, otherwise you don't know what causes wich effect. What motors do you have laying around ? Tango 45-07 would be a good try.

[MrMel]

Tried a diffrent bec, same result (didnt do a battery, but I had a Kontronic Bec30 that I tested.)

Tried the CC HV controller, same result.

So I guess I will be ordering a Tango 45-07 now.. and sending the orbit to repair I guess.. Must be a bad bearring or bad winding or something..

I have a Z600T (special mounting though), Neu 1912-1.5 and a Hacker A50-12S, but those are too low in rpm/volt I guess.
Gonna fedex me a Tango 45-07.. What pinion is needed for that (3D setup)

[MrMel]

It gets stranger and stranger.

Tried the Neu motor (no main gear, just motor) with the old Jazz & Ubec, SAME result again, 3 meter no antenna, 12 meter folded antenna.

Now, I dont know, maybe the Neu gives the same strange interference?

Anyway, even stranger, is that now the failsafe worked, which it didnt with the orbit!
Havent changed any settings in the radio..

Too tired now, gonna try a third receiver tomorrow...
Other then that, receiver battery, after that, im out of ideas.

[Klinger]

Try slapping a seperate Rx battery in it for a few flights. I found the HV Becs to be a good source of noise which was worse when the motor was running, marginally fixed this with some ferrite rings but couldnt get rid of it till i went battery.

[MrMel]

Tried a diffrent receiver, tried RX battery.

No improvment.

Alu, Without antenna, running the motor, whats your range?

Because I just tried it with my logo 10, and I didnt get more then 6 meters, however, with antenna mounted, folded, I get a good distance.

Maybe its my TX, I dont know, but it has been working so nice until I got the L14..

[MrMel]

Borrowed my friends 7C Tx, same result, got about 20 meter with one section of the antenna extended.

[Daniel Jetschin]

I get about 35m w/o antenna and motor not running. w/running motor I get 20-30m. With 148 dp I get 50m w/o motor and 25-30 with running.

[MrMel]

Thanks,

I finally got somewhere,

I think its the motor as I suspected all along.

Did route the antenna straight back (just tieing it to the vertical fin, and got alot better range, so antenna anywhere near the motor will screw up the range.

Gonna try one of those short antennas, pointing backwards to see what happens.
Else, I need to figure out a nice way to get it mounted, towards the tail.

Question is, how will the range be when I am nose in then.. hmm, Ive ordered a tango, gonna range test-compare it back to back with the Orbit.


However, It would probably been flyable now, if I hadnt managed to bend the flybar while working on the electrics.. ahhhh... :arggg:

[MrMel]

SOLVED!

It was the g.. da... aluminium motor mount.

Got a tip to try removing it, and voila, got a 30 meter range with no antenna, and about 85meter with folded antenna, actually better them my logo 10, never been better...

- Fredrik

[Daniel Jetschin]

Man ! Thanks, tryin that immediately

[MrMel]

I guess the alu mount work as a big amplifier or something.
Gonna try my G3 receiver tomorrow and see how thats affected.

[MrMel]

I made this testrig out of a shoebox.

First test was a "success" I had terrible range (with rx battery)
Gonna test each thing, motor spacer, ferrite rings, no alu mount, bec/rx battery and so on.

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/testrig.jpg

[Daniel Jetschin]

A test rig was my next idea, could you please try what happens if you move the servo directly near the motor or further away from it and how your maximum range reacts to that or if the servo begins to "flutter"

[askman]

you may consider grounding the aluminum mount to negative lead on the battery.

[MrMel]

Yep, I will, Gonna complete the testing over the next few days, but initially testing on my test-rig says Motor directly connected to the alu mount = half the range compared to plastic mount.

[waver]

Hi,

just a thought: I see a lot of wire on your setup... but I think that was mentioned before...

[MrMel]

Ive tried most of the available routings of the cables, my current solution I have the UBEC underneath the heli.

However, I think I have been chasing multiple problems, therefor, even if I fixed one, I had still glitches because of other issues.

Today I had my first flight (2 batteries, 12 min total) that was glitch free.

I cant really say what was the problem, but I have a guess it involved ESD from tailbelt + interference on certain channels on the field + sensitive receiver.

Or it was the color on the canopy :lol:

However its a bit early to tell, I need some more flights on the bird to be sure.