Tail kick

[Rob43]

I am tuning my Mini-G for 3d. I am little more than new to this, but when I pump some pitch into a flip the tail kicks a touch to the side as it also does it I pogo straight up. Maybe 8" or so to the left when oriented tail-in. Just enough I have to compensate to straighten it when I get inverted. It holds rock steady when flying around, funnels and such. I got rid of most of it with belt tension up to this point, as well as eliminating a bouncy stop when piro-ing left stick and stopping. I don't know how much more tension to run as it seems right to me. I also took JamesPPP's advice on Mini-G mounting with foam/plate/foam, but it made no difference. I have not reached the wag level of gain yet, but yesterday increased from Tx gain of 80 to 85 with no difference. I think 5 more clicks it will wag from what I can see when spooling up.

Any wisdom to offer?

[DominicD]

Move the ball further out on the tail servo horn... make sure to readjust the mechanical limits and gain to compensate.

[Rob43]

Thanks, Capi. Will giver 'er a try.

[Rob43]

I know it's a lousy pic, but the horn on the DS8900 is now out about as far as I think it could go. The horn was trimmed to clear the boom. Is ~18mm from center to ball. Thoughts?



http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=3361&pictureid=26876

[DominicD]

Nah looks far enough out.

[s0laris]

I have seen a few threads about this behavior with the mini g

[Rob43]

I had it on my Beam until I increased belt tension and motor timing. Maybe I need some additional timing on my motor in the Castle setup. I think a touch more timing gives the motor some response under load.

[Greg B]

What tail blades are using? My Mini G worked much better once I insatalled carbon tail blades.

Greg

[Rob43]

These (http://www.helidirect.com/92mm-pro-carbon-fiber-tail-blade-for-3050-helicopter-p-10355.hdx)

[Rob43]

I tried increasing my Castle gain from low (0) to medium (5). One thing is for sure...woke up the motor! It had serious power by comparison. I'm only flying 5 mins, so I'm not going deep into the pack at all. Nonetheless, I still get some tail kick when flipping forwards. I tried doing some tic tocs as well. I could do them, but had to play the tail. I also tried adding some expo to the tail to keep from thumbing in some unintended rudder input.

I have those cheap "3D" Carbon Blades on at the moment. I've also flown the KBDD 92's, 84.5's, as well as the stock blades. All fly great except they also allow the tail to kick a bit when pumping pitch. Would some high end tail blades like the SWE 90's Radix 92's, or Red Devil 95's make that much difference versus cheap carbon blades, or good plastic ones? I'd really like to see the bird flip on axis.

Any other ideas?

[s0laris]

KDBB ones perform as well or better than the best-est CF blades IMO

[Rob43]

So you think there is another tail I should chase rather than blades? I am not sure of any other options, aside from ditching the Mini-G for my Spartan. My first Mini-G. I am about stumped.

[s0laris]

If you have a ds760

then swap it out 1st before you make any tail decisions

[Greg B]

I have also used the KBDD blades with good success. It is the stock blades that I did not like with the Mini G. I also flew my Outrage today. While I was flying it, I was thinking about the problem you are having with yours. I don't know what to tell you. My seems to perform fine when doing flips like you are describing. I am running Rotor tech 85's on mine. But I no longer think that the tail blades are the problem with yours.
What head speed are you running? Possibly as slow head speed means a slow tail speed causing the problem.
I have seen this happen before.
Greg

[damyxz]

Did you set up the mini-G in rate mode first? Does your servo arm length allow full travel of the tail slider in both directions? What servo are you using? What's your main blade pitch range? Have you tried 92mm KBD's

[Raven_darkcloud]

I could be in your idle config. If you are getting a jump in hs then it will kick as the tail cathces up to the jump in speed. also check for some minor binding. Any of those can result in tail kick.

[Rob43]

Hopefully, here's some answers to your questions:

1. Running Castle ICE 100 on Set RPM mode (governor). Datalogger shows head speed remains with 50 rpm of my 2250 rpm setpoint in Stunt2!
2. I did NOT set up the Mini-G for a driftless hover in Rate mode first. I considered this an option to consider. My experience with doing this is limited, but I can see that the end result is that the pitch slider will be adjusted OFF-CENTER to provide necessary pitch to hold the tail without interaction from the gyro. I am not sure it will help the kick.
3. Running the JR DS8900G on 6 volts. The ball is mounted 18 mm from the servo shaft center. Way plenty of throw. I have the limits set to prevent pitch slider binding. One thing I have noticed on the 550 is that we can't use all of the available space on the tail shaft for slider throw for right rudder...the pitch slider arms will lock in the open position if the throw is too far. Everything works nice and smooth and is very free.
4. Main blade pitch range is +/- 13. Using Red Devil 550's.
5. I have tried KBDD 92mm tail blades. I could see them flex as the heli was spooling up on the ground. I could try them again, as I have done some considerable tuning since first trying them.
6. As mentioned earlier, I am running 2250 headspeed. It tacks pretty much right on the money, and the Castle seems to hold it very well indeed.

[Foxden]

I'm running a 6100T on Steven's 8S with a Spartan gryo, using a futuba style 3 hole horn in the outside hole, the 6S is using a 9156 (611) servo with a Saprtan gyro same horn same position, we tried many different tail blades, KBDD plastic, RJX 92 carbons, Radix 92, and SWE 90 carbons, Steven prefers the SWE 90's as they held the best on both his machines for his piro style flying and allowing the tail to be stopped pretty much anywhere, there has never been a wag issue with this setup on either machine, the new carbon tail blades that come in the Vel 50 kit are AWESOME blades and have become his favorite but we are still waiting for them to be sold separately so using the SWE 90's for now.

[Tradhunt]

I had 2 buddy's with this kindof issue over the weekend. I hooked up my laptop and changed to Gov. high and input the gear ratio and motor info. Set the HS to what they wanted via the software. I also changed the gov. gain from 8 to 10.

All issues went away. Not sure if it will solve the problem but its worth a shot.

[Rob43]

Thanks Foxden and Tradhunt

So, perhaps I could adjust the Gov gain up a touch on Set RPM Mode and see how it goes. I am pretty convinced it will resolve somewhere between ESC and belt drive. My Beam is better, but never achieved perfection here either. It has the little KBDD's on the tail (orange to match the canopy).

My T500 torque tube tail doesn't seem to do it at all, and there was no tweaking...and only the Align GP750 gryo.

[Greg B]

One more thing I thought of that I had forgotten all about. I run my Outrage with the Mini G
on throttle curves. I could never get the Mini G to work when using the governor. However this is on a Century Electron controller though.
You may want to try using throttle curves just to see what happens. Also my ball link is 13 mm from the center of the servo shaft.

[Rob43]

I am not so emotionally tied to the MiniG as I am enjoying the Castle governor. I am more apt to swap out the MiniG to Spartan DS760 since I have positive experience with it. Nonetheless, I think I'd prefer to try the tweak Tradhunt suggested regarding governor gain. If it get's worse, you may be on to something. Thanks though. I can keep that in the mental toolbox if needed.:thumbup:

[Greg B]

I am not so emotionally tied to the MiniG as I am enjoying the Castle governor. I am more apt to swap out the MiniG to Spartan DS760 since I have positive experience with it.

I can understand that. Wish I could get mine to work with the governor. Now I am curious
if a Spartan gyro would work with the Century Electron ESC using the governor.

[Rob43]

Neither of us have much flying weather ahead this season to sort it out! Interestingly enough, I think in spite of this minor tail kick issue on the 550, I had the season's best day of flying yesterday. Flew all my birds a couple of times, each essentially trouble free and an absolute blast! Best wishes on your ESC governor tuning.

[nashus2002]

I could be in your idle config. If you are getting a jump in hs then it will kick as the tail cathces up to the jump in speed. also check for some minor binding. Any of those can result in tail kick.


+2
have been reading for 2 days about the same problem. i have it to since i reset my heli.
HEAD SPEED I NOT CONSTANT.
or you reset your governor on PC or readjust your END POINT.
i'm using an ALIGN 60 ESC on my 450 an GOV is crap, i use V curve and i just lowered the extrem values ...... TA DA , ,,,,, problem solved.