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caralmar
04-01-2010, 04:52 PM
my awesome local model shop has replaced all the smashed parts , free of cost , and have sent the 3G away , my complaint is that when my rex 650 was running 703maniacs and running a constant 2150 , it could not handle the load taken , so lets see what the big boys say , in the mean time , she`s rebuilt as a n***o , the reason is that i`ll put the 4025-630 on ebay , i`m gonna fit a 4035-400 next , gotta 13T mod1 pinion coming and will use the 115mod1 main gear again , i love electric power :):):):)

WOW!!! That is AWESOME! Not too many business would have done that. Glad you'll get 'er going again soon.

Just got back from the field myself. My ground taching skills apparently were good enough. My buddy helped me tach it and got close to the same results I had.

IDLE2 100% throttle got us 2300 RPM with a fresh pack, and after a full 6min flight I was still spinning them at 2050RPM. Not bad!

ady
04-02-2010, 09:47 AM
she`s all rebuilt as a 12s rex once more , the 4025-630 has to stay for now , fitted with a 13T pinion ,600mm TT Blades , shes just been garden hovered , soooo smooth , back to thrashing again :thumbup:

caralmar
04-02-2010, 09:55 AM
Nice! That was fast! I once considered garden hovering my 600 but that thought lasted only a few seconds after I inspected our yard. It is a death trap for helis! Toys, barbeque, lawn furniture and playset all in the way! One false move and I'll have to jump behind the swingset for cover!

ady
04-02-2010, 10:07 AM
yep , don`t take long with a battery drill and a wife moaning about the living room full of heli bits ;) have changed my battery positions , one is now where the tank was , and the other is under the nose , pics later , ps you`re garden sounds as small as mine :lol:

ady
04-02-2010, 10:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfT7nPU42-0
my garden hover , only using 75% throttle cos its scary enough

caralmar
04-02-2010, 11:03 AM
my garden hover , only using 75% throttle cos its scary enough

What, no inverted hover? :D

At least you did it outside, not like this dufus here!

uxni3OXT_Vo

ady
04-02-2010, 11:55 AM
don`t think i`ll be hovering indoors for some time .

caralmar
04-02-2010, 12:56 PM
Sweet heli! I like the blue pipes. I've got all my packs charged up, beautiful weather outside, but now work is bugging me! Wish I was independently wealthy and could just fly all day! :D

rceccleston
04-02-2010, 02:05 PM
My plan was to potentially go with the 4035 630kv with a 6mm extended shaft and use the kde pinion support and also use a 700 115T mod 1 maingear because of all of the gear stripping horror stories.

I've heard pilots reporting short flights with the 4035 series motors compared to the 4025-630kv.

If you looking for extreme power, the 4025-630kv in gov mode, will provide huge power on 600 blades.

ady
04-02-2010, 02:20 PM
wish i was rich too , i managed to flatten out my li-po`s after the big ding , they all balance ok tho and are all charged up for another day :)

twistedgrim
04-02-2010, 11:36 PM
Well I think im ready to take the jump into 12s Power. I have a Phoenix ICE HV80 in my plane I need to switch out with my ICE 100 so Ill be good with that and I have a CCBEC PRO attached to it. I think ill go with the 4025-630kv like most people have used.

Heres my question. I have an older Regular Almuminum frame 600E. TT upgrade with some metal head upgrades. Mechanically how different is the motor setup? Other than the motor ESC and BEC is there anything huge I need to change? Maingear etc? I guess 12T Pinion is good to start and get a 13T as a spare? For the regular old school 600E is there any frame spacers I need or things to modify it to make it stronger. I think eventually I will upgrade this to the ESP style frames with a full flybarless setup when the CYE FBL comes out.

rceccleston
04-03-2010, 07:32 AM
Well I think im ready to take the jump into 12s Power. I have a Phoenix ICE HV80 in my plane I need to switch out with my ICE 100 so Ill be good with that and I have a CCBEC PRO attached to it. I think ill go with the 4025-630kv like most people have used.

Heres my question. I have an older Regular Almuminum frame 600E. TT upgrade with some metal head upgrades. Mechanically how different is the motor setup? Other than the motor ESC and BEC is there anything huge I need to change? Maingear etc? I guess 12T Pinion is good to start and get a 13T as a spare? For the regular old school 600E is there any frame spacers I need or things to modify it to make it stronger. I think eventually I will upgrade this to the ESP style frames with a full flybarless setup when the CYE FBL comes out.
I would image your 600e would work well with 12s, because it suits your current flying style.

However, I did noticed Align released an upgrade for the one-way bearing, so this maybe a potential issue if it can't handle the additional power.

ady
04-03-2010, 10:01 AM
two more flights done , its torture waiting for the batts to charge at the field, but anyway , 100% throttle , 6min , 2230 used each time approx , i can say this tho , flybarless really makes this come alive more , pity mine is flybar`d again while i sort my 3G hassle out

rceccleston
04-03-2010, 11:21 AM
two more flights done , its torture waiting for the batts to charge at the field, but anyway , 100% throttle , 6min , 2230 used each time approx , i can say this tho , flybarless really makes this come alive more , pity mine is flybar`d again while i sort my 3G hassle out
Good work mate.

While I purchased a 3g kit for my 700e, I've since sold the 3g system and pre-ordered a Skookum 720 (http://www.skookumrobotics.com/products/sk720.html). :YeaBaby:

Ps. What's the inside width of 600n kit i.e. the width of the main bearing and boom block??

papabas
04-03-2010, 12:01 PM
Hello everyone.
Congratulations for this great and helpful post.
I've been studying it for about two days now, so i thing i'm going to take my chances.
Should i convert my 600nsp to electric?
Since the title of the post refers to low budget i think that the conversion
will be much more economical than to purchase a trex 600 esp.
So, what do you think?

rceccleston
04-03-2010, 12:16 PM
Hello everyone.
Congratulations for this great and helpful post.
I've been studying it for about two days now, so i thing i'm going to take my chances.
Should i convert my 600nsp to electric?
Since the title of the post refers to low budget i think that the conversion
will be much more economical than to purchase a trex 600 esp.
So, what do you think?
Ady recently converted his NSP to an ESP, but that maybe a topic for another thread.

While nitro tends to cost a lot and pay as you go, electrics very much have to pay in advance by investing in packs and ensure they last their life cycles for a full return.

Once converted, the power can be geared from soft sport to insane 3D, at the cost of flight time.

papabas
04-03-2010, 12:32 PM
Thank you rceccleston for you reply.
Sorry if i missposted.
Just been very confused for this conversion but i thing your 12s setup
will be powerfull.

rceccleston
04-03-2010, 12:45 PM
Thank you rceccleston for you reply.
Sorry if i missposted.
Just been very confused for this conversion but i thing your 12s setup
will be powerfull.


No prob mate, always welcome any 12s questions.

Maybe worth sending a PM to Ady, I know he's had great success with his NSP to ESP conversion.

ady
04-03-2010, 02:53 PM
evening all , the measurement , between sideframes is 54mm , measured the posts i use to strengthen her , some are 55mm ? oh and i changed the heli over to nitro before tea , takes 45mins from start to finish and flying , have been to the field and had 3 flights , the engine is a redline 53 on 30% optifuel , the reason i`m saying this on this post is that , 12s GIVES A LOT MORE POWER :YeaBaby: with the E version i can get away with a lot and i fly alot closer to myself , with the n version i had to turn the cyclics down , just wanted to do comparison for a club member , flight time on a tank of fuel was 7mins , thanks all :thumbup:

rceccleston
04-03-2010, 03:04 PM
evening all , the measurement , between sideframes is 54mm , measured the posts i use to strengthen her , some are 55mm ? oh and i changed the heli over to nitro before tea , takes 45mins from start to finish and flying , have been to the field and had 3 flights , the engine is a redline 53 on 30% optifuel , the reason i`m saying this on this post is that , 12s GIVES A LOT MORE POWER :YeaBaby: with the E version i can get away with a lot and i fly alot closer to myself , with the n version i had to turn the cyclics down , just wanted to do comparison for a club member , flight time on a tank of fuel was 7mins , thanks all :thumbup:
Thanks.

Nice comparison. :thumbup:

BUDY KOESNADI
04-04-2010, 03:38 PM
Following recent interest in 12s (44.4v) setup's, I would like to share my last 10 months/180 flights of experience and setup for those looking to convert to 12s for longer pack life cycles and excellent performance on a budget. Not everyone can afford a Jive ESC, Neu outrunner or expensive packs.

Typically, due to the low voltage (22.2v) and high amp (>100a) demands on a stock 6s (22.2v) setup, many have noticed a degrade in pack performance after approximately 50 flights. Additionally, the high amps decrease efficiency in the form of heat, which has led to esc fires from various manufactures.

With a high voltage, low amp setup and the availability of cheap high continuous rated packs, the stress on the power system is greatly reduced so increasing efficiency, continuous power, reliability and prolonging components life cycles.

Now, before some jump in, their have been failures which can be related to product defects, over gearing, excessive head speeds and the use of low continuous rated packs.

With 180 flights under my blades, this setup appears to work really well with zero failures. :thumbup:

The heli:-

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2567&pictureid=27702

The setup:-

T-Rex 600 Electric Super Pro (ESP),
Castle Creations 85HV ESC,
Scorpion 4025-630kv Outrunner,
Mikado 3012 12T Pinion - Align 5mm (http://www.align.com.tw/shop/index.php?cPath=22_72_80&sort=2a&page=4) pinions.
Castle Creations Pro BEC,
Align DS610 Cyclic Servo's,
JR DS8900G Tail servo,
JR G770T Gyro,
Align 600 blades,
KBDD tail blades,
2x 6s Turnigy 3000Mah 30/40c (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9489&aff=97114).

While some maybe able to afford the best components upon the market, this thread has been created to show affordable components really do work and perform well.

Purchasing an ESP saves alot of money in upgrades with minimal additions of affordable stock components, to further enhance the ESP airframe. These will be shown and explained throughout the thread.

All of the included Align electronics can be easily be sold 'as new' to fund the 12s upgrades i.e. Align ESC, motor, regulator and receiver pack.

Due to the wider diameter of the Scorpion, the installation of the 4025-630kv requires some cutting of the frames, using a dremel. The red wire within the motor housing is an Eagle Tree thermal probe, recording in flight running temperatures.

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2567&pictureid=27708

With the installation of a third Align bearing block (H60031) and replacement Align main shaft (H60013) from the original 600e, the frames are stiffened and removes the play from the main shaft. Prior to the upgrade, noticeable play could be seen during spool down.

http://www.align.com.tw/shop/images/function/h60031_1.jpg (http://www.align.com.tw/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22_72_80&products_id=1272) http://www.align.com.tw/shop/images/function/h60013-1_1.jpg (http://www.align.com.tw/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22_72_80&products_id=1914)

Because the voltage has been doubled, the amps would be halved, with the same wattage motor. However, with the increased wattage/power of the Scorpion 4025-630kv (2.7KW 3.62HP) from the stock Align 650L-1220kv (>2KW >2.68HP) the amps have increased to 65 continuously.

With an overhead of 20 amps continuously, the Castle Creations 85HV ESC is an ideal match for the Scorpion 4025-630kv.

With significant improvements in recent firmware releases, to enhance the governor, the Castle Creation 85HV ESC has not let me down in fixed end points. Due to the aggressive high amp peaks of the governor, fixed end points have proven to be more efficient with minimal bogging and increased flight times on 12s.

Below is a copy of my ESC config.

################################################## #####
# Castle Link Data File
# Created: 21 October 2009
# Do Not Edit This File By Hand
################################################## #####
Hex55: 85
Brake Strength: 0
Brake Delay: .6 sec (Delayed) (*)
Brake Ramp: Immediate (*)
Cutoff Type: Soft Cutoff
Motor Start Power: 59
Direction: Forward (*)
PWM Rate: Outrunner Mode
Vehicle Type: Helicopter
Throttle Type: Fixed Endpoints
Throttle Response: 5
Governor Gain: 50
Initial Spool-Up Rate: 5
Head Speed Change Rate: 8
Auto Rotate Enabled: False
Governor Mode Type: Simple
Current Limiting: Disabled
Cutoff Voltage: 360
Motor Timing: 5
Power-On Beep: Enabled (*)
Auto-Lipo Volts/Cell: 3.0 Volts/Cell (*)

Holes have been drilled through the bottom bracket to mounted the esc between the rear frames. The nylon bolts, mounting the skids to frame, should shear in the event of a crash to protect the bottom bracket.

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2567&pictureid=27716

Setup for sport and mild 3D, the Scorpion 4025-630kv with stock bearings and Mikado 3012 12T have never stripped a main gear peaking at 2100rpm and discharging to 1940 on a 100% flat lined throttle curve. Increased headspeed for aggressive 3D can be achieved with the Mikado 3013 13T pinion, at the cost of flight time.

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2490&pictureid=26602

Since replacing the stock Align regulator and receiver pack for the 12s Creation Creations Pro BEC, this single connect and fly setup has greatly reduced the hassle of monitoring/charging packs. Rated at 10 amps continuous and peaks of 20 amps, the CC Pro BEC has eliminated the chance of low voltage brown outs for a further flybarless upgrade.

http://www.castlecreations.com/images/gfx-ccbec/pic-ccbecpro_in_hand.jpg (http://www.castlecreations.com/products/ccbec.html#)

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2567&pictureid=27717

The JR 770T / 770 3D gyro has been mounted on the underside of the boom, with second radial tail grip mod, for a truly locked in tail and protection in the event of a crash.

In flight, the pitch of the tail blades cause the tail grips to bind on the thrust bearing, which result in low gyro gain. With a second radial bearing installed within the stock Align metal tail grips, the side load is removed from the thrust bearing.

With a stock install, one radial bearing then the thrust bearing is installed

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2567&pictureid=27174


With a second radial bearing, one radial bearing, one thrust bearing then a second radial bearing is installed, like the KDE upgrade.

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109955&d=1250009809

Either of the Align metal or plastic tail grips can be used for this mod.

Parts Required:-

- Two 3x10x4mm radial bearing,
- Two M3x12mm button or socket head cap.

Simply remove the stock M3x8mm bolt from the blade grip, keeping the original washer and insert the 3x10x4mm bearing.

With thread-lock, firmly tighten the M3x12mm to bind the original washer between the inner racer of the 3x10x4mm radial bearing and the tail rotor hub.

Because the M3 bolt acts as an extension of the tail hub, this allows the second radial bearing to dissipate the side load otherwise exerted on the thrust bearing.


The second radial bearing can just be seen behind the root of the tail blade.

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2567&pictureid=27173

This results in smooth pitch control with no binding and higher gyro gain. Prior to the upgrade I could only run 70% gain, now with the second radial, I can run 85% before the tail will wag.

A pair of 6s Turnigy 3000Mah 30/40c packs (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9489&aff=97114), connected in series, are held in by vertically mounting the stock battery tray. The 'centre of gravity' is then spot on.

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2567&pictureid=27720

The frame has been stiffened by replacing the stock plastic hexagonal bolts in the boom block for Align metal hexagonal bolts with stainless steel bolts all round.

http://www.align.com.tw/shop/images/function/h60032_1.jpg (http://www.align.com.tw/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22_72_80&products_id=1273)

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2567&pictureid=26972


http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2567&pictureid=26971

Additional frame support for the elevator servo has been installed by replacing the stock plastic canopy with the Align metal canopy mount (H60092) connected by M3 threaded rod to an Align frame mount bolt (H60187).

http://www.align.com.tw/shop/images/function/h60092_1.jpg (http://www.align.com.tw/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1439) http://www.align.com.tw/shop/images/function/h60187_1.jpg (http://www.align.com.tw/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22_72_80&products_id=2676)

http://www.helifreak.com/picture.php?albumid=2567&pictureid=27707

By covering the receiver antenna's with heat shrink, additional support has been added to prevent damaging the internal copper wires.

Lastly, with great availability, the stock Align 600 main blades have been working very well for rolls, loops, tic-toc's and much more. At half the price of stock carbon tail blades, the neon KBDD tail blades glow well in the sun and are a great compliment to the stock yellow canopy.

Dear Sir,

Can we still use stock Motor Mount for Scorpion 4025-630KV ?
How about your opinion if using bigger motor Scorpion/Hyperion 4035-630KV and what size battery pack should we use ?
Please advice and thank you.

Budy Koesnadi
Western Australia
E : thekoos45@ymail.com

rceccleston
04-04-2010, 04:04 PM
Dear Sir,

Can we still use stock Motor Mount for Scorpion 4025-630KV ?
How about your opinion if using bigger motor Scorpion/Hyperion 4035-630KV and what size battery pack should we use ?
Please advice and thank you.

Budy Koesnadi
Western Australia
E : thekoos45@ymail.com
Few have tried a 4035 series motor with poor flight times, however, the 4025-630kv produces plenty of power to swing 600's.

Other than the cutting of the frames, the stock motor mount is used.

I am having great success with 4 pairs of 6s Turnigy 3000Mah 30/40c (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9489&aff=97114) at 90% for 6mins.

hmurayam
04-05-2010, 06:16 PM
Anyone running 85HV with 630 in governor mode? By the castle link and to keep the values at the software boxes the pinion should go up to 15T so the ESC can keep about 2000 rpm in gov mode.
thanks,

moto_14x
04-05-2010, 07:30 PM
First off thanks to rceccleston for posting all of the information to transform this beast... Here are the final pics of my conversion. It was a joy to build and so far it's a huge kick in the pants to fly!

600 ESP
Scorp 4025-630
12 tooth pinion
CC 85HV
Super Herc BEC
Align 610 cyclics
Align 620 tail
Spartan Quark Clear
Radix mains
Stock paddles and tail blades
2 x Turnigy 6s 2650 40-50c

CG is spot on and idle up is 2102 with 100-95-90-95-100. Once I get used to this then I will go to a 13 tooth and alter the curves!!!

Thanks again for everyone that contributed to this thread!!!!!

tonyblade
04-06-2010, 05:45 AM
Hi guys, anyone know if it's ok to use the 3.3 turnigys? They are about 2mm longer and 2mm wider, and 40grams heavier, or should I stick with the 3.0 at 507grams? Thanks tony.