How to - 12s T-Rex 600 Setup On A Budget.

[zen97713@zen.co.uk]

Yes I'm going to a belt on this rebuild. I didn't start stripping front TT gears until I went FBL. I stripped twice doing 4 point tic tocs going from 9 oclock to 12 oclock positions and once doing a knife edge 450 cobra piro. All three times I was rotating clockwise into the torque of the mains. I'm now doing them counterclockwise and will be putting a belt on this week when I rebuild. The TT strips have caused 3 crashes, but indirectly have caused 5 as every time I go into the rear case I inadvertantly tug on plugs that go into the vbar thus losening them. The tape I had across the vbar plugs to prevent backing out lost some stick and I lost the right cylclic servo causing another crash with broken frames. This rebuild will be with a belt.

I feel your pain. I just stripped another torque tube gear and crashed as a result. What are the options ?

1)sell up and get 550.
2) convert to belt,
3)convert to use 700 gearing and torque tube gears ? (is this possible?)

I certainly can't carry on as I am. I was also frequently doing big ben toc tocs. I guess its how you fly that really affects the gear systems. If you are doing F3C or slow 3d, it does nothing to your gears. Hard core 3d destroys them on 12S (as far as I am concerned).

[rceccleston]

I feel your pain. I just stripped another torque tube gear and crashed as a result. What are the options ?

1)sell up and get 550.
2) convert to belt,
3)convert to use 700 gearing and torque tube gears ? (is this possible?)

I certainly can't carry on as I am. I was also frequently doing big ben toc tocs. I guess its how you fly that really affects the gear systems. If you are doing F3C or slow 3d, it does nothing to your gears. Hard core 3d destroys them on 12S (as far as I am concerned).
Since switching from the 4025-630 in fixed end point to 4025-550 in governor mode, I too have notice the front torque tube gears have worn badly, from doing alot of side on tick-tocks and big bens.

Rather than convert to belt, with anti-static and stretching issues, I have chosen to purchase 'H60147-01 Torque Tube Front Drive Gear Set' (http://www.align.com.tw/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2560) at 2/3's the cost of individual gear sets.

http://www.align.com.tw/shop/images/function/h60147-01_1.jpg

http://www.align.com.tw/shop/images/function/h60147-01_2.jpg

[Jotto]

Does headspeed affect tt gear stripping? What headspeed are you guys running when this happens?

[zen97713@zen.co.uk]

I run a 13 tooth pinion with the 4025-630 with a 94% to 100% v curve , flybarless with fixed end points. I only ever buy torque tube gears in 3's !

I know there is someone with a 12s 600e running a 700 maingear. I am wondering if he is running 700e torque tube gear like the 700e? I know the frames are a different size, so I guess it depends if the gears fit in the 600 boom block? Assuming it fits, would the Kv on my motor be totally wrong?

[stewb]

Which gear is it that strips? Is it the bevel gear? Can somebody post a pic, maybe not here but in the main section.

[zen97713@zen.co.uk]

yes it is the bevel gear (input to torque tube). I will try and get a picture up, but there is not much to see (except stripped / rounded teeth).

[snjbird]

I run the 700 main gear, but the 0.7 mod... and no I don't think the 1.0 mod TT gears will fit? I will have a look...

I had a few TT gears strip, and I think it was coming from too rapid a ramp up, try turning your initial spool up rate down a bit, see if that helps, it did with mine.

It could be the extra holding power of the motor?

[rceccleston]

I run the 700 main gear, but the 0.7 mod... and no I don't think the 1.0 mod TT gears will fit? I will have a look...

I had a few TT gears strip, and I think it was coming from too rapid a ramp up, try turning your initial spool up rate down a bit, see if that helps, it did with mine.

It could be the extra holding power of the motor?
I suspect the high wear on the torque tube gears is the result of 12s torque and the holding power of modern tail servos... :(

[Rogman88]

http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t601227p1/

My TT experience. Got a vid in there somewhere of it happening. Oh and yes, I bought TT gears in bulk as well. Gonna fly with the belt this weekend and we'll see what happens.

[dfrazier]

After reading about the torque tube front gear failures I decided to check mine. After 200 flights the front gears still look new. I am using the grey nitro gears so I don't know if that makes any difference but I heard the grey gears are tougher.

[rceccleston]

After reading about the torque tube front gear failures I decided to check mine. After 200 flights the front gears still look new. I am using the grey nitro gears so I don't know if that makes any difference but I heard the grey gears are tougher.
At first, I had hundreds of flights on the original torque tube gears doing tic-toc's and only notice the heavy wear when started doing side-on tic-toc's.

[Alekoy]

My CC Phoenix ICE 80HV and my Scorpion motor arrived today!. :P
BUT I ordered and paid for a 4025-630, but got a 4035-630 instead, (which has the 6mm shaft).
the 4035-630 is rated at 85 amps, and the regulator at 80...
Will this be OK?
Should I install a fan on it?
Will the motor ever be loaded to the max amps on a 600?

[trevjonez]

i too wanted to ask if anyone is running the 4035 on their 600. i have a 4035-500 in my 700e and it gets so hot it scary and the 4025-630 gets very hot also.

i've been eyeballing the limited edition motor from scorpion for the 700 so i think if i could use the 4035 in the 600 it might help me take that huge plunge

[rceccleston]

My CC Phoenix ICE 80HV and my Scorpion motor arrived today!. :P
BUT I ordered and paid for a 4025-630, but got a 4035-630 instead, (which has the 6mm shaft).
the 4035-630 is rated at 85 amps, and the regulator at 80...
Will this be OK?
Should I install a fan on it?
Will the motor ever be loaded to the max amps on a 600?
The 4025-550kv is better than the 630kv for two reason, lower kv for bigger pinion and is more efficient on 12s.

[rceccleston]

Doh! misread your post.

The 4035 range is designed for the 700 class heli's which I've heard to be power house on the 600 with short flights if pushed hard.

[Alekoy]

Well, according to Scorpion, it is designed for 600-700 helis, whilst the 4025 is designed for 550-600 helis.

so I think I'm in the dry when it comes to the motor, but will the regulator handle it?

I believe that the 4035 motor will use the same power as the 4025, when flying the heli the same, but it will be able to deliver more power when/if you want it.

For a strange comparison;
A Honda Civic can drive at 100km/h up a hill, and a Corvette can drive up the same hill at the same speed.... BUT if the driver of the Corvette wants, he can give it some more gas.. :rolling

[rceccleston]

Well, according to Scorpion, it is designed for 600-700 helis, whilst the 4025 is designed for 550-600 helis.

so I think I'm in the dry when it comes to the motor, but will the regulator handle it?
I believe your referring to the speed controller...

Since the motor is rated at 95 amps continuously and your speed controller at 80 amps continuously, personally, I would say the motor is going to push the speed controller a little too hard and run the risk of failure under heavy loads.

[Alekoy]

So I ended up selling the ESC I got and ordered a Phoenix ICE 120HV instead and will be running the 4035-630..

To bad I crashed the heli on saturday, so I have to wait for some parts..
Well, lesson learned from the crash: Mount the Flybarless-unit with gyro-tape, not just normal, bad double sided tape... It came loose during some flips, and the heli became totally uncontrollable.. :arggg:

[Jotto]

Yesterday I finally maidened my 12S 600CF! Oh yeah!

It sounds better (my old motor bearings were getting worn out) and the batteries were pretty cold after flight. I can't say that I noticed very much difference in power, however. I guess I would have noticed it if I flew harder. I was just doing eights, punchouts and flips.

[Gunnarjohn]

Anyone try these on their 12s or are they to heavy?
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=9955

[rceccleston]

Anyone try these on their 12s or are they to heavy?
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=9955
I would recommend these new lighter Turnigy nano-tech 3000mah 6S 25~50C (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=11921&aff=97114) packs.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/catalog/N3000-6S-25%281%29.jpg (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=11921&aff=97114)

They'll produce 75amps continuously and 150 amps peaks, which is more than enough for either the 4025-630kv or 4025-550kv on 12s. :thumbup:

[snjbird]

Anyone try these on their 12s or are they to heavy?
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=9955

I have a pair of them, they balance fine on mine. I get 5:00 of 3D flying at 2200RPM, or 6:30 of cruising around doing FFF at 1900RPM. My machine is FBL though...

[Lunchbox1019]

I am going to start my 12 build in the next few weeks. I have read most of this thread and just want to clear a few things up before I start ordering parts.

Is it necessary to do a third bearing block when moving from 6s to 12s? I have seen several on 12s still running 2 blocks, but have heard others say a third is definately need with the additional power.

So the stock 170t main gear survives on 12s? I figured it would get ripped apart. Should I change my main gear to a stronger aftermarket brand?

I am planning on using the ICE 120 HV with a Scorpion 4025-630 and a 14t pinion. Any other advice is greatly appreciated.

thanks!!

[snjbird]

I am going to start my 12 build in the next few weeks. I have read most of this thread and just want to clear a few things up before I start ordering parts.

Is it necessary to do a third bearing block when moving from 6s to 12s? I have seen several on 12s still running 2 blocks, but have heard others say a third is definately need with the additional power.

So the stock 170t main gear survives on 12s? I figured it would get ripped apart. Should I change my main gear to a stronger aftermarket brand?

I am planning on using the ICE 120 HV with a Scorpion 4025-630 and a 14t pinion. Any other advice is greatly appreciated.

thanks!!

The KDE hub to move to the 700main gear is a worthwhile upgrade.

The Ice 120 will work awesome, I think the 80 would be fine, but the 120 can be used later on a 700E if you ever go that way.

My 600 is an older kit with the Third BB factory installed, I know the 12S 700E has only 2?

[Lunchbox1019]

The KDE hub to move to the 700main gear is a worthwhile upgrade.

The Ice 120 will work awesome, I think the 80 would be fine, but the 120 can be used later on a 700E if you ever go that way.

My 600 is an older kit with the Third BB factory installed, I know the 12S 700E has only 2?


Good point on the 700 only having 2 blocks. I will check out the KDE hub. Thanks!!