How to - 12s T-Rex 600 Setup On A Budget.

[rceccleston]

Is it necessary to do a third bearing block when moving from 6s to 12s? I have seen several on 12s still running 2 blocks, but have heard others say a third is definately need with the additional power.
It's not necessary for any setup but removes play in the main shaft.

So the stock 170t main gear survives on 12s? I figured it would get ripped apart. Should I change my main gear to a stronger aftermarket brand?
I have never stripping the stock main gear 12T with the 4025-630 at 2100rpm in fixed end points or the 4025-550 on 14T in gov mode at 2000rpm.

I am planning on using the ICE 120 HV with a Scorpion 4025-630 and a 14t pinion. Any other advice is greatly appreciated.
The CC 120 HV Ice is a little over kill as the CC 80 HV Ice will be more than enough for the 64 amp continuous rating of both motors.

[adroc3905]

Wow has this thread grown......128 pages. I still read up on it from time to time to see if any new tricks have been discovered. I am also still loving my Trex 600 12s. Thanks to everyone who helped make this thread a successful blueprint for many pilots to come.

[GB ian]

ditto adroc's post.

I love my 12ST600.

4025 630 12T.

My T600 Nitro is looking a little rough in flight by comparison.

Although the 12S setup also has an SK720 on it whereas that T600 Nitro is flybarred.

Thanks to this thread for making me spend several thousand dollars more...now building 12S AP heli.

[rceccleston]

Wow has this thread grown......128 pages. I still read up on it from time to time to see if any new tricks have been discovered. I am also still loving my Trex 600 12s. Thanks to everyone who helped make this thread a successful blueprint for many pilots to come.
It's been a interesting experience creating my first thread and always amazes me how may people show interest in my various conversions at fly-ins around the Midlands.

Currently models are :-



T-Rex 450 Pro 6s, Skookum 720, CC ICE 50, Scorpion 2221-1600KV 15T, Align DS410x3, DS3500G.
T-Rex 500 ESP 6s, Skookum 720, CC ICE 75, Scorpion 3026-1600KV 14T, Futaba 9650x3, DS650.
T-Rex 600 ESP 12s, Skookum 720, CC 85HV&BEC Pro, Scorpion 4025-550KV 17T, DS610x3, DS650.
T-Rex 700e 'Chrome Edition' 12s, Skookum 720, CC 110HV, Scorpion 4035-400KV 15T, DS610x3, DS650.

[shay]

ditto adroc's post.

I love my 12ST600.

4025 630 12T.

My T600 Nitro is looking a little rough in flight by comparison.

Although the 12S setup also has an SK720 on it whereas that T600 Nitro is flybarred.

Thanks to this thread for making me spend several thousand dollars more...now building 12S AP heli.

what's AP heli?

[Alekoy]

All you need to know about AP (http://helifreak.com/forumdisplay.php?f=53)

[bobsp1]

I am building a Chaos 600ESP (a Trex 600 clone) as a 12S. I have a Scorpion 4025-630 that i am going to install.
It is supplied with M3 screws to attach it and the Align 600ESP manual shows the motor being attached with a couple of M3 screws.
Is it normal to use what seem like two rather small screws for a 12S application or is it usual to tap the threads out to M4 size.

[meatbob]

I've had no issues with the M3 screws. However, I'm using Stainless M3 screws, so take that for what it's worth. My 630 does not move on the motor plate.

[bobsp1]

Thanks meatbob, thats just what i need to hear....I assume though that you just attach it with the two screws..

[rceccleston]

Thanks meatbob, thats just what i need to hear....I assume though that you just attach it with the two screws..
I would recommend replacing the stock M3x10mm screws with M3x12mm screws so to fully engage all the thread within the motor.

This was a lesson learnt when the stock M3x10mm screws stripped the thread, from within the motor, causing the motor to bounce around the inside of the frames during a crash.

[bobsp1]

Thanks for the help...this is a very good thread.
I appreciate the effort you have made (rceccleston) in not only starting it, but in keeping it going with relevant info for so long and to everybody else who has contributed
But... geez...it's a long read from start to finish, although by the time I got this far, I feel well educated, 12S style...:thumbup:

[meatbob]

If you are going with M3x10 screws from the outset, be sure to use aftermarket Stainless Steel ones. The stock Align ones are a bit soft and may strip, leading to the problem that rceccleston described.

I purchased a SS screw kit from http://www.rcscrewz.com/ just for this. Plenty of screws.

[rceccleston]

If you are going with M3x10 screws from the outset, be sure to use aftermarket Stainless Steel ones. The stock Align ones are a bit soft and may strip, leading to the problem that rceccleston described.

I purchased a SS screw kit from http://www.rcscrewz.com/ just for this. Plenty of screws.
It wasn't so much that the thread of the screw stripped but the soft aluminium thread within the motor...

A longer screw now fully passes through the threaded mounting hole within the motor for a better hold.

[abravo1]

rceccleston, (http://helifreak.com/member.php?u=53589)
I really like the work and the depth of research that you have put into your heli. Can the 4025-630 be tamed down for a beginner to learn on or would it be too strong. I am at the point of hovering with the 450 Sport and now i am collecting parts and piecing together a 600ESP. After flying it on the Phoenix Flight Sim, i decided i had to have one-lol

PS: Nice Pics of your bird too

Best Of Luck

MIchael

[rceccleston]

rceccleston, (http://helifreak.com/member.php?u=53589)
I really like the work and the depth of research that you have put into your heli. Can the 4025-630 be tamed down for a beginner to learn on or would it be too strong. I am at the point of hovering with the 450 Sport and now i am collecting parts and piecing together a 600ESP. After flying it on the Phoenix Flight Sim, i decided i had to have one-lol

PS: Nice Pics of your bird too

Best Of Luck

MIchael
Yes, a 12s setup can be tamed/geared down for efficient low headspeed for hovering manoeuvres or wild crazy high headspeed.

The power system is so efficient for either.

Good luck.:thumbup:

[meatbob]

I started out on the 12T pinion, and quickly went for the 13T as I got comfortable with it. If you stay on the 12T pinion, be sure to keep the headspeed up. I found that the 600 ESP on the soft gray dampeners likes to nod back and forth as a result. I'm running 14T now, and I really like the pop.

[mmgaero]

Trex 600E with 3 G FBL head
BLS 251 tail
Scorp 4025-630 on 12s (2 x 6s turnigy nanotec 3300)
castle 85HV
Vbar on 4.0
2100 HSpeed on 14T governed with set RPM mode

stripped TT and crashed
changed to belt tail
1) stripped first belt
2) lowered stop gains in vbar software
3) stripped 2nd belt
4) reduced gains in tail as much as possible
5) after 10 flights stripped 3rd belt
We are flying pretty hard with fast hurricanes, pyro flips, etc. Heli flies great but cant get 10 flights in without a tail problem.

Any more ideas? about ready to pack it in and move to a trex 550E or LOGO 500/600. Really dont want to move to LOGO as we want the local parts support :(

???

[snjbird]

Try to slow down your initial spool up. I stripped a couple of TT gears, and a buddy told me to turn that down, and I have 50+ flights since then with no issue!

[mmgaero]

thanks I will take a look at the startup. However, Im pretty sure its happening on hard collective moves/pyros/stops/etc. Can definitely hear that tail is working hard but didnt expect it to keep stripping.

I see you are also using vbar, what tail settings do you have?

thx

Mark.

[snjbird]

I have 5.0Express on mine, so nothing fancy. just set the gain were it holds good and fly this hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj9d4IMDVew

I find the VBar kinda likes to "go big" so I don't do that much smack style?

[rceccleston]

Trex 600E with 3 G FBL head
BLS 251 tail
Scorp 4025-630 on 12s (2 x 6s turnigy nanotec 3300)
castle 85HV
Vbar on 4.0
2100 HSpeed on 14T governed with set RPM mode

By the dimensions listed upon the Hobbyking website, I thought the Nano-tech 3300Mah wouldn't fit between the frames.

Do you have any pictures showing how you have mounted these packs??

stripped TT and crashed
changed to belt tail
1) stripped first belt
2) lowered stop gains in vbar software
3) stripped 2nd belt
4) reduced gains in tail as much as possible
5) after 10 flights stripped 3rd belt
We are flying pretty hard with fast hurricanes, pyro flips, etc. Heli flies great but cant get 10 flights in without a tail problem.

Any more ideas? about ready to pack it in and move to a trex 550E or LOGO 500/600. Really dont want to move to LOGO as we want the local parts support :(

???
While the belt has more teeth than a torque tube to strip, I would have thought the nylon / plastic torque tube gears could transfer more power than small rubber teeth, but I could be wrong.

While you need the tail gain to hold the tail, the stripping maybe the result of the hard stops, over stressing the tail power train.

Investigating how to reduce the tail hard stops look to be he only solution.

While the T-Rex 550e shares many T-Rex 600 part, including gears, the Logo's are an alternative design that may have addressed this issue in software.

[highland flyer]

Mark it sounds very like the stops of your Gyro are set to aggressively or your running excessive Gain. The 600 TT rear gear train is pretty decent overall. BTW No gear train can sustain full reversals and a little care must be used in such situations by the Pilot. For more normal flying the gyro settings should take care of this.

Brian

[Jotto]

thanks I will take a look at the startup. However, Im pretty sure its happening on hard collective moves/pyros/stops/etc. Can definitely hear that tail is working hard but didnt expect it to keep stripping.

I see you are also using vbar, what tail settings do you have?


You should also have a look on the "Motor start power" setting. I had to decrease it significantly when I converted to 12S.

The initial spool-up rate determines the overall acceleration from zero-ish to full speed, while the motor start power determines the acceleration on the first few revolutions. You can have a low spool-up rate and still kill the gears with the default motor start power setting.

[rceccleston]

You should also have a look on the "Motor start power" setting. I had to decrease it significantly when I converted to 12S.

The initial spool-up rate determines the overall acceleration from zero-ish to full speed, while the motor start power determines the acceleration on the first few revolutions. You can have a low spool-up rate and still kill the gears with the default motor start power setting.
Interesting, the stock 'motor start power' appears to be working well in either fixed end points or governor mode, with a torque tube.

Are you running a belt?
What is your spool-up rate?

[Jotto]

Interesting, the stock 'motor start power' appears to be working well in either fixed end points or governor mode, with a torque tube.

Are you running a belt?
What is your spool-up rate?

I have tt. Sorry, I don't remember my settings. I can check them, but I'm not on my "heli" PC now.. :-)