How to - 12s T-Rex 600 Setup On A Budget.

[rceccleston]

I went back to fixed endpoints after trying the CC85HV govenor in Gov High Gain Med and later Gain Low I had tail twitches that would not go away unless I lowered the tail gain to something silly. I have an SK720 on this bird which may also be part of the issue intems of finding the right tuning to run governed.

Any ideas> In fixed with 13T 170 main using 85% flat I am getting 2050 ish using the 4025-630 motor.

I would like to use the govenor...but not sure what else to change. I have all other ESC settings per the reeccleston original opening post in this thread
I am now running the Skookum 720 on 6s 450, 500, 12s 600 and 700e.

What firmware are you running on both your esc and Skookum??

[GB ian]

I'll check and let you know,

[hadi10]

how big is the spark you get when you connect your 12S to the esc ? im a 6s guy and i get the annoying spark always.. anyways to prevent it ?
i had the turnigy 150A esc bfore and it had this small lead that has a resistor inside when i connect first and then connect the battery lead..it prevents the spark but its a PITA to do solder this extra lead to all my batteries.

[Alekoy]

I have a question about the use of a HV 12s BEC for these applications since most are using two 6s lipos.

Why couldn't the BEC be connected to just one of the two lipos? This would allow the BEC to work less to give the lower voltage required for the Rx and servos. It seems as though this may be more reliable since you would generate less heat in your BEC electronics as well. You could also go with a less expensive non HV BEC. I know that this could cause a slightly different drain on the lipos, but I would guess this would not be significant since the servo power draw is significantly less than the motor power draw. Please let me know your thoughs. Here is a (stolen) pic of what I am talking about.


I use a separate 2S lipo and a Fromeco Kiwi regulator, this is the way I like it..

But IF I were to use only one set of batteries, the way you describe here is the way I would do it, mainly because it gives you the possibility to power up the electronics for adjustments and also before you connect the power to the motor..

No risk of decapitation...

So on my 600E-12S I have two power connectors sticking out outside the canopy, and one jumper that I move between them, it is normally plugged into the connector that goes to the regulator, shorting the power-switch pins (closed contact = power off, open contact = power on), so when I'm ready to fly I remove the jumper, wait for the FBL-unit to get ready, and then I plug the jumper into the other connector, that is in series with the batteries...

I know this might be a little hard to understand, but I can post pictures of it later on. :)

[good2go]

I use a separate 2S lipo and a Fromeco Kiwi regulator, this is the way I like it..

But IF I were to use only one set of batteries, the way you describe here is the way I would do it, mainly because it gives you the possibility to power up the electronics for adjustments and also before you connect the power to the motor..

No risk of decapitation...

So on my 600E-12S I have two power connectors sticking out outside the canopy, and one jumper that I move between them, it is normally plugged into the connector that goes to the regulator, shorting the power-switch pins (closed contact = power off, open contact = power on), so when I'm ready to fly I remove the jumper, wait for the FBL-unit to get ready, and then I plug the jumper into the other connector, that is in series with the batteries...

I know this might be a little hard to understand, but I can post pictures of it later on. :)

Yes, please post a picture. I have seen a couple people post the difference in drain on the two lipos with a setup like this on a 600 size heli. The difference is about 5-6% mah.

[Alekoy]

OK, doing some changes atm, 12S and FBL upgrade so it is a little in pieces, I used the same exact power system (with the jumper) when it was 6S, except that I used deans connectors for the batteries and I am now changing to EC5 connectors.. It is wintertime, afterall...

Note: i have the reversed the gender of the bullets inside the jumper, so the probability of plugging it into a battery and shorting it is minimized.. :)

http://oyen.in/jan11/lask.jpg

and also, I'm using the "700-tail strut support brace thing" (http://www.helidirect.com/aluminum-tail-microheli-boom-support-brace-silver-trex-700-p-8500.hdx) that "Jotto" mentioned earlier in the thread to reinforce the frame after the cut. And also, I have a 4035-630kv, instead of the 4025 that most are using.
http://oyen.in/jan11/frame.jpg

And AC-3X FBL
http://oyen.in/jan11/fbl.jpg

[tyfries]

where did you get the blue wire tubes???

i REALLY want some

can you give me the link?

[minititinflyer]

where did you get the blue wire tubes???

i REALLY want some

can you give me the link?
there called ec5 plugs you get them at hobbyking for cheaper but horizon hobbies has it too

[roboto65]

Lots to read I just aquired a 600N and well after the fact I found out that I would like to go electric now I have read alot here and am thinking of converting my 600N to electric.. Will be reading all the thread here but may take awhile LOL

Anyhow thanks for all the good info here...

[HeliAxe]

Hi guys,

I am new to this thread (as you can prob tell).

On one of Finless's build threads for this bird he stated that you must have your tail rotor spinning in a certain direction being leading edge up into the main blades at towards the front of the heli. Can anyone explain to me why that is? How would the heli behave if I had the direction incorrect? Any links I can read up on?

Thanks :thinking

[povern]

Hi guys,

I am new to this thread (as you can prob tell).

On one of Finless's build threads for this bird he stated that you must have your tail rotor spinning in a certain direction being leading edge up into the main blades at towards the front of the heli. Can anyone explain to me why that is? How would the heli behave if I had the direction incorrect? Any links I can read up on?

Thanks :thinking

You would have better luck creating your own post in the forum that is for the heli you are talking about..... :thumbup:

This is a pretty narrow topic in this thread.

povern

[hadi10]

well ,my quik reply is..
u will find the heli totally unstable. .the tail is extremly sensitive and twitchy..
i did that mistake before and it took me a while to know that the tail is rotating backwards..

[wangotaco]

Howdy!

I finished my first 12s a few months back. Decided to sell my 450 and 500 to finance another 12s build. My first one was CC120HV, 4025-630, turnigy 40c-3000mahx2, align ds610 cyclic, bls251 tail, skookum 720. This is a fantastic flying machine. It did take a while to get the chatter out of the tail (i think it was motor governor feedback).

I was thinking about tinkering with a few of the components on the new one, wondered if anyone has any recommendations? Same ESC, same battery. The new one, so far, I've collected: jr8917hv cyclic, outrage bl9188tail, mikado vbar fullsize. I'm thinking about the engine. It's not like I need more power, but, why not? The 4035-550 is an option. Is the -500 an option? Does anyone have experience with these other motors that they could share? Also, the jr8917hv are going for 70-90 now, so, they are in the ballpark for a 12s on budget.

Thanks! I read this thread every time I have a question. This time I got through about 30 pages, didn't find the answer, so thought I'd post. Sorry if this is old info :-)

One other question, about bearings....oiling this motor is a pain.
Is there an easier / better way?

-greg

It's not necessary for any setup but removes play in the main shaft.


I have never stripping the stock main gear 12T with the 4025-630 at 2100rpm in fixed end points or the 4025-550 on 14T in gov mode at 2000rpm.


The CC 120 HV Ice is a little over kill as the CC 80 HV Ice will be more than enough for the 64 amp continuous rating of both motors.

[GB ian]

Wango taco, what are your govenor settings? I had a hard time getting the tail twitch under control on te 85HV with the 4025-630, and eventually gave up and went back to fixed endpoints.

[rceccleston]

Wango taco, what are your govenor settings? I had a hard time getting the tail twitch under control on te 85HV with the 4025-630, and eventually gave up and went back to fixed endpoints.
Recommend starting with a gain value of low and incrementing by 1...

[wangotaco]

Recommend starting with a gain value of low and incrementing by 1...

Sorry it took so long to get back to this.
Throttle tab:
Vehicle Type: Heli
Throttle Type: Governor Mode
Throttle Response: 5
Governor Mode: Set RPM
Initial Spool-Up Rate: 5
Governor Gain: 7
Head Speed Change: 5
Headspeeds: 1910, 2050, 2101
(I run at 2050)
Brake disabled
Lipo Cutoff 3.0 volts
Current Limiting Insensitive
Cutoff Type: soft
Motor Start Power: 5
Motor Timing: 5
Direction: forward
PWM Rate: Outrunner
V3.23 (I'll be trying V3.26 tomorrow)

I have a question in with Castle about the Motor Timing and PWM.

The governor is really working fantastic, I get a head speed of 2000
through the entire flight (5 minutes). We measured with one of those
visual shutter things today. I'm wondering if I can push a 15T pinion?

Best,
---greg

[rceccleston]

Sorry it took so long to get back to this.
Throttle tab:
Vehicle Type: Heli
Throttle Type: Governor Mode
Throttle Response: 5
Governor Mode: Set RPM
Initial Spool-Up Rate: 5
Governor Gain: 7
Head Speed Change: 5
Headspeeds: 1910, 2050, 2101
(I run at 2050)
Brake disabled
Lipo Cutoff 3.0 volts
Current Limiting Insensitive
Cutoff Type: soft
Motor Start Power: 5
Motor Timing: 5
Direction: forward
PWM Rate: Outrunner
V3.23 (I'll be trying V3.26 tomorrow)

I have a question in with Castle about the Motor Timing and PWM.

The governor is really working fantastic, I get a head speed of 2000
through the entire flight (5 minutes). We measured with one of those
visual shutter things today. I'm wondering if I can push a 15T pinion?

Best,
---greg
I'm running the latest beta firmware with the governor set to low, else the headspeeds bounces, with the frequency set to 8Khz.

[wangotaco]

I'm running the latest beta firmware with the governor set to low, else the headspeeds bounces, with the frequency set to 8Khz.
Interesting. I think that the set RPM mode, and Governor Low, are effectively the same thing (set RPM mode gives you 3 Governor Low settings selectable by throttle percentage input?) I'm going to try the 8Khz and new firmware today. What do you have your Governor Gain set to?

[rceccleston]

Interesting. I think that the set RPM mode, and Governor Low, are effectively the same thing (set RPM mode gives you 3 Governor Low settings selectable by throttle percentage input?) I'm going to try the 8Khz and new firmware today. What do you have your Governor Gain set to?
The default 'low' value of 15, any more and the headspeed bounces.

[GB ian]

Thanks for posting all the info guys on your gov settings.

I am staying with fixed endpoints for now as the heli is flying fantastically...putting the Radix flybarless blades on it made the SK720 perform even better and I don't feel like messing with it much more for a while.

I am running 13T at 100% and getting 5 minutes of mild 3D which is perfect. I have not tached the head but I am guessing 2200 rpm.

Packs come down warm motor at about 150F, esc warm.

Takes about 2300mah to fill up each 3000mah pack. So right where it needs to be.

[tdwayne69]

The Chaos 600 12S has flown at last....just two flights so far, but all is good.

Attached are some pics...


What did you use to separate your old main gear set so you could install the KDE gear? I'm going to upgrade my main gear as well, but wasn't sure if I needed a clutch puller or something of that sort.

Tony

[bobsp1]

Tony, I bought a one-way bearing removal tool from Heli-direct...only $3.50.....just used it in a small bench vice and the one-way pressed out and in with no problems....it wouldn't hurt to buy another one-way bearing as well as the tool( they are pretty cheap) just in case it all goes wrong.
The link is http://www.helidirect.com/stainless-steel-oneway-bearing-removal-trex-600-p-3100.hdx
Bob.

[timmayla]

This is great! Thanks for putting it together.

[choky]

16 t pinion

170 main gear mesh was not correct ..


result???


brand new esc fire ..


darn it !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[adroc3905]

Were you using CC govern mode?

I am finishing up my FBL conversion now and plan to use the CC set rpm feature to maintian a 2200rpm using a 16T pinion gets me approx 92.9% esc operation per CC software.

Does anyone know if this (2200) will be too much HS for a FBL setup?
I was running 14T w/ a flat throttle curve on the FB setup with great sucess.