X-Cell Razor 600 E build review and flight review

[misskimo]

At IRCHA 06, I had the rare Opportunity ( for me) to build a Razor , the 8th preproduction kit made. :mrgreen: Thanks to the MA team for the support and the chance to express what I can give to the electric heli pilots and future pilots that transform from IC to electric.
The box came thursday, and opening it up to find bags of parts numbered , nicely packs . to put together , just go by the # .
Also , it was kinda hard to build at a big event like IRCHA , I think everytime I heard a electric crank up , I was out of the seat to see what it was , :mrgreen:
My instructions was the MA shops or Chris's test heli. there is no instructions yet , over the few days of building at IRCHA , I had enough built so I could carry it home to finish without looking at a razor .
This past week , I finished the Kit , and man it looks good . With the proven MA head and a tail gearbox like no other, its ganna be a great flyier forsure.
my specks
high voltage Thunder Power 2 6s1p 3850
first motor choice , Kontronic 45-06
13.5 to 1 gearing
Schulze 40-70 , " they dont make this esc anymore :(
VBlade 600s and Vblade 95 on tail , stock MA paddles
SBec
G3 rx
611 gyro
9252s on swash
12 -12 degrees of pitch

The Build

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/b8bc9b6f52d8989166d2f720b8fe01f1.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/76592d00e34b618e07eabd00eedd53e0.jpg

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http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/d41ae56fafc30021753982234cee1ee5.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/a569769d87bb05db5dad64accb96e822.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/325259b863f5c3367c7f7cfb1a061618.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/033fd8bb3dea1889a6e5606f998767d5.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/1762f0ccecb412f1198cba411288a239.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/97b522c209355d3dbad6a67ca05f6bba.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/efd7ae44d8154200821e359bab2639ee.jpg

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http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/640cb4559010486ba5e81257028ccb2c.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/d27b50a3d8a1408d088a5eb59b6c8aab.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/38b86b55055c42beb0a3c7e531c81434.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/eb36363d4ff1eb0ade79bbebfacdc285.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/4f5046ce63d7bfbe5bf453cae09944a2.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/e6263cc287507cc677e901e12fdce1a3.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/87e36ee7eb580936bb4b1b568acd3a2e.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/8f70f87851a6884b1075c2b9df07d2de.jpg

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http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/0af6e38002e79a220d3e532b66c31daa.jpg

http://www.helifreak.com/album_mod/upload/34bd72a58b03ac15be752cff1b32127d.jpg

more later

Tony

[TomC]

Tony,

Great pics Mate! Thanks.

One quick question; is the final vertical drive shaft (one with pinion feeding the main gear) supported above the pinion with a bearing? Given the relatively long length of this shaft, it looks like it should. I cannot quite tell this from the pics.

Cheers,

Tom C

[misskimo]

yes , it has a bearing block up above , :smokin:


Tony

[TomC]

Thanks Tony,

Looks fantastic!

Cheers,

Tom C

[ormandj]

Wow! Looks great! Keep the info coming, I'm salivating. :P

[OICU812]

LOL salivating, LOOKOUT! Yea I am excited as well! :smokin:

[erniefritz]

LOL , i live about 8 miles from MA , I feel ilke camping out at their doorstep waiting for a kit.. :noteworthy

[misskimo]

8 miles , man lucky you . :lol: :twisted: 5800 miles for me

[ormandj]

7615km/4732 miles for me :( :twisted:

[misskimo]

hey , alittle update , had a small issue with the Sbec , if you use this , remember to cut the switch off before you change your packs , smoked a G3 Rx and a new kontronics 55-12-32 , when I plugged in the packs with the switch on , the spike of a 5s pack must have shorted out the rx and I got a motor arm without hooking the wye up to the other pack on my 10s setup
I changed out the 45-06 on 12s 3850 to see how it would match to a 45-08 and the 55-12-32 , changed the gearing to match ClintStones. 14.25 to 1 , and packs used , 4600 10s1p thunderpower , and a set of Ion packs I had laying around just to see how they would act compared to the 4600, 2 5s4p 5300s
1st flight had good power , about 7% to 10% less than the 45-06 on 12s. but well worth it for one great long flight of mild to kinda hard 3D. A very SMOOTH smacking machine. I flew it kinda mild at first , and ended up flying for 9 min , :shock: got a tad carried away , this heli feels so good to fly , put back into the packs 3450 ma :shock:
2nd flight was with the 5300 , I could feel the weight added , but it rocks also. flew it for a 10 min flight :shock: I wanted to run 10 with these , at 8 mins , I could bog the heli down pretty good , so I just stayed out of the 11 degrees of pitch I had . still could tic toc and do stationary flips no problem. had a blast
a 3rd flight came in 1 hour later after the 4600s were charged , and this flight seamed to have woke up the batteries , its been 17 days since I charged them, now this flight I messed with the throttle curve some , 70 70 70 in idle1 100 100 100 in idle 2 , I flipped straight to 2 when firing it up , waited till headspeed was wide open , then took off , on this flight , I did notice the packs was hot , meaning ! when you let them sit a while charged , they are kinda sleepy, well that charge was like the batteries drank some coffee and woke up , it acted just like Clints video of the MXR here
http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?p=159964
and also a good rule of thumb , at 7 min , you will hear the motor grunt like on the video and I heard it too on this flight , thats a good time to come down with the 4600s , I layed in it as hard as the motor would let me ,
I had a blast today , this setup is great , packs come down cool , motor luke warm, my shower water is hotter than this , that I take every sat. :lol: sike! esc body temp.
since I had the heli , I have 10 flights on it , no problems in the air other than a esc connector loose on 12s that caused a hickup staying in it to long . and the mins I have on those 10 flight add up to alittle over 70 min of flying . YYyyyyeeeeeeeeHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
A very sweet machine , I will try a 24-4 on 10s and 12s next week, Im ganna fly this one for a few days , like it :mrgreen:

Tony
Im happy

[misskimo]

hey , got a few flights on the kontronics 45-08 , great motor , but know Im ganna try the actro 24-4 geared 10.3 to 1 on 10s 4600, and put back the schulze 40-70 so I can also try 12s 3850 . just need to change the gears now to try 12S . one thing with the schulze compared to the kontronics , theres a increase 75 to 100 rpm difference. that extra is what the manual says , you will notice alittle more power . YEEH!!!!

[misskimo]

hey , well got 2 flights in today with the actro , 10.3 seams about as much power the 45-08 4% more grunt, they are close with this gearing , temps came down just about the same , 7 min on a 4600 thunder power pack , and also a 7 min flight time with the 10s4p 5300s . but I sure like the power from the 45-06 on 12S , Yeeeeeehhh! that thang had some grunt , but I do bet the 12s with the actro will beat it by a long shot, schulze took a sh!t on me though , had to put the kontronics back on , just placed an order for the actro 120 , so in a week when I get back to work , I will try it . I leave my work tomorrow for a week , Wed , cant wait ,
time off is always nice , :mrgreen:

Tony

[OICU812]

Let us know for sure on the Actro on 12S, I am very curious how this will pan out on this heli! :)

[misskimo]

hey , alittle up date ,
so far I tried the 45-06 on 12S geared 13.5 to 1 , best motor and power combo yet , the 45-08 on 10s geared 14.25, great power , good for mild 3D and fun , long flights with the extreem 4600 TP packs , 8 min. then I tried the 24-4 geared 10.3 to 1 , all motors ran close to the same headspeed , 2100 to 2200 at max rpms , the 24-4 acts almost like the 45-08 power wise , maybe 2 to 5 % more power , but that seams to be the torque it produces , which is great , but just not that great , ganna do alittle more expirmenting this week if the weather hopes good , 24-4 geared 11.8 to 1 and my new schulze 32-80 11S 3850 TPs yeh!, and then after , change out the esc with the CC 85 , and run 12s geared 12 to 1

hope to have some fun

Tony

[OICU812]

2100 to 2200 at max rpms

Ok I need understand this. I thought from all the writeups on the Razor the pilots in general were running 2200 ish headspeed and having their 55-10-32 goverened at around 70-75% at that Headspeed, a lever effect as it is known to get the most consitent feel power wise out of aan electric for a determined proven time ie: tango 45-08 at 6.5-8 mins, a NEU that was talked about for 4.5 - 5 minutes of hard 3D. I myself shoot for the gearing which gives me 25% or so headroom for the governor to allow for battery sag and drop off etc...

Were my assumptions wrong and the tests have not been with some headroom and these escs are jacked up to the 90+% range to obtain 2100-2200?? If that is the case the combos talked about have became a little less interesting to me, I feel if this is heavier than the L14 for example and is going to be running 600 blades, it will need what it is show 2100+ HS and be governed in the 70+ range and not pinned. Could you please clarify if you are speaking motor rpm max or if you are talking esc max, please and thanks Tony, sorry for babbling on, lol.... :wink:

[misskimo]

hey , well , I been tinkering with the Kontronics esc , far down as 70% , headspeed drops about 200 from the MAX headspeed rpm , I didnt like the way my heli reacted there , so I went back to 90% flat line gov mode which is basically close to 100% , thats where I been doing all my testing at , 90% when I get home tomorrow , which by the way the heli is moving from my remote work site back home , my work is 1000 feet above sea level , so its pretty much winter here now ,
home its about 2 weeks behind sorta speak , but I just dont like the way the kontronics works , like my schulze , 95% of throttle is 95% , just wish my 40-70 didnt blow a fet, well its 3 years old , so I got my money out of it , got the 32-80 coming for 11S though , I also want to try some 3400s , but no time this year ,
with the new Schulze 32-80 , I will run it at 90% and try my best to get a video of it , wife might throw a fit , but I will make here , I got a video of the 24-4 on 10s , its lame compared to the 45-06 on 12s .
But Im also finding out a hole lot data about cold flying , which is way different that a warm day , but the cold doesnt affect the heli none with HV , like my Ion , I flew it at 16 degrees , and it acted alittle better than a warm day , more snap ,
Man I can ramble on huh?
so to answer your question , I think most MA pilots are running close to 2200 on the head , how they are geared , I dont know , but for me , I shooting for a MAX rpm of 2200 , and bumping it down to 90%

[Rodney]

Thats pretty good info. I would like to see the power out of a battery that is in 16deg. weather. They seem really slow here when it is 60deg.

[misskimo]

hey , just posted a small clip on ezone of the 24-4
nothing fancy , but Im learning .
the first video is at my work last week , temp 26 F
but right behind me theres a big building , looks kinda like a half a star , its where we live at , and theres 5 wings , 4 stories high , and if you listen through headphones , it sounds neat , you can here feed back sound , oh , on this video I did my 3rd backward hurricane . but the funnel sucked , well the 20 mph winds up there didnt help either
the second video , well thats a motor I tried yeasterday , but I think something was wrong with it , got up to 300 F :shock:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=582397

[misskimo]

moment of truth here , 12s with the actro , YEH!!!
I have a CC 85 that most are saying is working pretty good , cant believe the price on these , 185 with the data link ,
I also bought one from Gary Goodrum, he has the newest instock .
pretty neat you can dial the gov like a gyro gain with this esc , hope it turns out well , Gary also said the gov wouldnt work on 12s , so Im setting it up like my 14s Ion I had , I have 2 6s thunderPower 3850s that ROCK , theres nothing like TP , Just dont like EVOs , they seam to weigh about 5% more for the same MA ,
I have a gearration of 11.4 to 1 , so Im looking at a 100% rpm of 2300 . Ill tone it down to 2100 . Gary said he didnt notice a RPM change till you bring the throttle down to around 63% so anything higher than 63% is 100% , kinda like the Kontronics. I sure wish schulze would make a 40-80 , dang , schulzes 100% is 100% , 98% is 98% , 85% is 85%
hope it goes well , and this weather sure sucks , rain and snow